LINDEGR

I don't see a distinction between a "reward" and a "perk." In any event, it matters to those of us who find their policy infuriating. Like many said, to reward an employee over a paying customer just seems nuts. Like others posted, give the nonrev the Y seat and those that pay their salaries should get the premium seat. Seems pretty logical to me.

It is also fascinating that so many lament how hard it is for the poor nonrev to ever get a seat and then in the next breath say elites would never buy J or F since they'd take their chances. That is obviously nuts too. At any rate, I agree it is not changing as employees now have this sense of entitlement and would rather strike rather than let AA change it. Sad but it's here to stay. [I still like to complain about it.]

carlosdca

I do.
A person that flies 100EQMs a year gets rewarded with EXP status and all the benefits. That person needs to take action and spend money in order to get EXP.
A person that flies 2000EQM a year, does not get rewarded with anything.

The AA employee that got a PE seat was not rewarded, as in, oh she was so lucky, she should have been in Y.
No, she is entitled to the highest class available, including F on 3 class planes after all revenue seats have been allocated (including elites on upgrade lists).
The AA employee does not have to earn EQMs, EQDs etc. to get an F seat.
The mere fact that she works for AA entitles her to that PE or F seat.

No, it is not a "sense" of entitlement. They ARE actually entitled to claim that empty seat after all upgrades have been processed. How in the world does that affect you? It makes no sense to me.

Personally, it does not bother me.
If I am on an international flight in Y, with no SWUs, no miles+copay, decline $$$ upgrade to PE offered at check-in...then I will be on Y. Why would I be upset that a non-rev gest a PE seat and I'm in the back?

Is your wish that AA starts giving away free upgrades to those that don't posses an upgrade instrument when there are available seats upfront? Then what would be the point of the established upgrade process?

Don't get it.

justhere

If there are no Y seats left and the airline needs 1 or more due to an oversold situation, they will opup their elites. If there are no Y seats left and no other revenue passengers need a Y seat then everyone got what they paid for. Any elites in Y likely have no idea if a non-rev sat in a premium cabin and even if they did, so what? If a non-rev sits in a J seat, then that J seat was available for anyone on the plane that was willing to pay for it. None were. While I'm sure there are pros and cons to both sides of this, as I noted earlier, there seems to be very little ROI for the airline when they give away a premium product and have determined that it's in their best interest not to do so.

I would think perk is normally considered part of a benefit package whereas a reward is a one-time event. With that in mind, they aren't rewarding an employee over a customer. They are providing the benefit that is part of the employees benefit package and they are providing the customer with what they paid for. If a customer of any business feels that the value of the goods or service isn't worth what they paid, they'll take their business elsewhere.

Is it fair to say that elites don't expect a free upgrade - without going through whatever iteration of steps are required to obtain an upgrade normally? (If they did, then there's a sense of entitlement for you.) So if they don't expect a free upgrade and they have a concern about an employee sitting in J vs. them sitting in J, then it seems it's really a matter of jealousy or envy. While they may think it doesn't make good business sense, the airline obviously disagrees. Also, regardless of what people think about airline employees, or employees in general, if done correctly there are obvious benefits and ROI when providing perks to employees.

William1865

I'm assuming such surprise upgrades couldn't be offered too far ahead of boarding, as there would still be time for AA to actually sell any remaining empty premium seats (which might be needed last-minute by high-value passengers who would be willing to pay a premium), and selling such seats would be good for AA, which has been established as the goal here.

As I understand it then, what would need to happen is that at some pre-established time before (but not too far before) it's time to board, GAs would need to look at available Y seats, available premium seats, and non-rev requests; match available premium seats with qualifying passengers after determining which passengers on the flight are the biggest $ makers, presumably based on status; making announcements for those passengers to please see the GA (in theory in conjunction with some sort of app-based notification, which would unfortunately only work for travelers who actively use the app in an efficient manner and/or check it throughout the boarding process); waiting for said passengers to report to GA (either based on announcements or app notifications or both), making further announcements for those who don't answer; telling the ones who do answer the announcement that it's their lucky day and they have been upgraded as a thanks from AA for their $ making; dealing with questions from those lucky passengers about whether their travelling companions are also upgraded, and calming irate passengers who learn that only the $ maker is eligible for surprise upgrade; waiting for said passengers to confer as needed with traveling companions to determine whether or not to take the upgrade (presumably AA wouldn't be so crass as to tell their $ maker passengers that it's an immediate, yes-or-no, take-it-or-leave-it proposition, the pressure of which might rub some $ makers the wrong way); noting passengers who say thanks-but-no-thanks up front, that they'd rather stay in their assigned seat for whatever reason; checking to make sure that no eligible passengers missed the announcements and have already boarded; pulling any such (highly-valued) passengers from their assigned seats (along with any carry-on items they may have brought on board) up to a premium seat (if they so choose, which they may not, and after dealing with any questions/aggravations about traveling companions not being upgraded); going back to the list of $ makers to determine who is next in line eligibility-wise for surprise upgrades that have not be claimed by $ maker passengers deemed eligible thus far; making gate announcements for those newly-eligible passengers; repeating several of the steps listed above; possibly dealing with passengers who fancy themselves as $ makers for American who overhear this whole process, and fielding their questions about why their business isn't appreciated; answering questions from $ maker passengers who purchased premium tickets or upgrades, or used available upgrade devices, but are now concerned to see other passengers being upgraded for free; verifying that completed upgrades are now reflected on paperwork/manifests as required; once again looking at available Y seats and non-rev requests; pairing available non-rev requests with open seats, based on priority; calling those passengers up to the counter, issuing their boarding passes, and making sure their Y seat assignments are now reflected on final paperwork/manifests.

Or the airline could have a system in place in which passengers (the $ makingest of whom should be well aware of upgrade options and opportunities) can decide at various points during and after the purchase of their tickets whether or not to upgrade by available means, up to a preset point close to the time of boarding, at which point employees (who play a $ making role for the airline, which may or may not include generating great service and good will for $ making passengers they encounter throughout their workdays), would be eligible for any unclaimed premium or Y seats, as a pre-established "perk" of airline employment (subject to rigorous terms and conditions, the violation of which could lead to an employee's punishment and/or termination by the airline).

Not saying one system would work better, just thinking out loud here...

JDiver

I’ve not read many posts where members are venting their concerns (or even their spleen) over the many times AA employees and family members are left on the ground - occasionally, for days - when flights are dispatched full of revenue (including miles) passengers and employees on official business. That missing of flights happens fairly frequently.

Bear96

Taking the presence of non-revs out of the equation, it sounds like you are saying all premium seats should be filled up on every flight as a "reward" or "perk." If there are empties, give comp upgrades in status order until every premium seat is taken.

Is this accurate? I just want to make sure I understand what you are advocating exactly and I don't want to make inaccurate assumptions.

(ETA: I am asking because the only other option I can think of is that you are saying comp upgrades should be given *only* when there are non-revs on the flight (otherwise the seats go empty), which seems like a strange idea.)

JY1024

Just a few quick housekeeping comments...

- Thank you to those who have engaged in a respectful and respectful manner. Disagreements and differing opinions are fine; however, personal attacks are NOT allowed.

- Let’s please try to stay on topic. If this discussion wanders too far from the original post or if conversation starts going around-and-around rehashing the same arguments, then we will put this thread to bed.

Thanks everyone!

/Moderator

DCP2016

I see OP hasn't been back since their initial post to defend their position. Speaks volumes.

Just like a perk of working for a theme park is free admission or working at a University is free/reduced tuition, a perk of working for an airline is free/reduced cost (space available) travel. People only focus on the lucky employees getting a premium economy/business/first upgrade, but not the fact they might have had to wait the entire day in the airport (or days) for a free seat to open up.

If you are jealous/can't handle this, I would suggest quitting your job and go work for an airline.

wrp96

A friend is an AA gate agent that lives in a city different than her work location. She works a week on, week off type schedule. A few weeks ago her husband had to drive her to work in another state because she couldn't even buy a seat on any airline to get to work on time, much less get a "free" seat on AA.

LINDEGR

I hope this post is not meant to garner sympathy. Anyone who is so _________ (fill in the blank as you wish but I'd go with foolish or reckless) to live in a city from which they must fly to get to their work city has to rethink their priorities or deal with a high volume of inconveniences. Too bad - so sad!

LINDEGR

I appreciate your post was written to be as outlandish (and humorous) as possible, but considering domestic "sticker" upgrades work on a simple request Y or N, there is no reason this process could not be followed here as well. Let's at least try to be intellectually honest in arguing the pro's and con's of the alternatives.

LINDEGR

That's a fair question. I was initially proposing that when a non-rev needs a seat and coach is full, that an elite passenger is upgraded and the non-rev gets the now open coach seat. Simply put, I do not support any system when the "hired help" are rewarded in ways better than the people that pay their salary. I would also support a plan that fills INTERNATIONAL and NYC-LAX/SFO transcon premium cabin first by those 'paying' for it - via paid seat, mileage/SWU and or TODs then anything left would be by a simple customer service/goodwill gesture. What sticks in my craw is when on a three class-cabin I can't upgrade from coach to business because AA won't goodwill upgrade someone from J to F and open a seat for me in J. Instead, a nonrev gets the F seat and I sit in coach!!! And please don't respond by telling me I got what I paid for blah blah blah. I get it and I accept it. I just think it's crappy way to run an airline And yes, I know I am free to take my business elsewhere. more blah blah blahs

wrp96

LINDEGR

And in 99% of cases, people in this scenario either move or change jobs. She chose such a cumbersome approach to earning a living and has to deal with the consequences. I swear airline employees seem to think they are indentured servants. The vast majority that I know hate AA yet would not dream of leaving. Very odd - to me at least.

Often1

All a business decision by AA. AA is free to offer experienced Captains minimum wage and no more. It may find it hard to locate competent people at that rate. So, it offers more. Dollars, benefits such as F, and the like. Just like many other businesses.

Not really so hard.