Unbelievable aa reply to account closure for fraudulent credit card use
Apr 2, 2019, 7:20 am
#32
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2006
Programs: AAdvantage PP
Posts: 13,913
Some years back I had a situation in which my cc didn't go through. I caught it near travel date. I called AA, updated the card and AA honored the original fare. Mistakes happen. But in this situation the OP was clearly trying to get the benefits of a fully refundable fare without paying for a fully refundable. I'm surprised it took AA this long to uncover the scheme. Also, as I understand it when you hit "purchase" AA's systems verify it's a valid credit card, which clearly it was not. Only a couple hours later once the cc company has released the funds does the status go from ticket pending to ticketed. All other airlines seem to be able to verify funds availability immediately with the cc company and then you within minutes, if not seconds, get a ticketed confirmation. This shows how sorely AA lacks in the IT area.
Apr 2, 2019, 7:24 am
#34
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: OKC
Programs: IHG Spire, National Exec, AA Plat
Posts: 2,274
Some years back I had a situation in which my cc didn't go through. I caught it near travel date. I called AA, updated the card and AA honored the original fare. Mistakes happen. But in this situation the OP was clearly trying to get the benefits of a fully refundable fare without paying for a fully refundable. I'm surprised it took AA this long to uncover the scheme. Also, as I understand it when you hit "purchase" AA's systems verify it's a valid credit card, which clearly it was not. Only a couple hours later once the cc company has released the funds does the status go from ticket pending to ticketed. All other airlines seem to be able to verify funds availability immediately with the cc company and then you within minutes, if not seconds, get a ticketed confirmation. This shows how sorely AA lacks in the IT area.
Then again, my in flight purchase for a snack box on 3/24 STILLhasn't hit my AMEX even as a pending charge as of today, so of course I can't get a receipt for it on the website. That's going to make my expense report simple, I'm sure it'll post 3-4 weeks later after I have submitted everything else.. thanks AA.
Apr 2, 2019, 7:25 am
#35
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But as you said, there is a difference between a mistake and 21 grand worth of "mistakes"
Apr 2, 2019, 7:38 am
#36
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
Bottom line, if one hits the "purchase" button, one owes AA for the ticket unless one has made other arrangements (generally not available to consumer purchasers). If the form of payment is cancelled, over-limit, or otherwise not available, one still owes the money. While AA would be quite right in never processing the ticket and simply cancelling the reservation, I strongly suspect that most of these situations are not frauds, but simple errors. Given this, it seems decent customer service not to instantly cancel.
Perhaps AA let this go on too long, but that does not change the passenger's obligations and it in no way shifts the blame from the customer to AA.
Look at it another way, AA does not need this type of business, so it fires the customer.
Perhaps AA let this go on too long, but that does not change the passenger's obligations and it in no way shifts the blame from the customer to AA.
Look at it another way, AA does not need this type of business, so it fires the customer.
Apr 2, 2019, 7:40 am
#37
Join Date: Oct 2016
Programs: DL Gold, AA Plat, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 253
I am struggling to understand how someone could think it was acceptable to an airline to have an invalid credit card on file in order to hold tickets and the fares. And then complain it took 3 years for the airline to detect the problem.
With over a hundred million passengers annually it takes time for unusual behavior to be detected.
I would not like my clients to give me a deposit by check on a closed account so I block out time for a project but they want to continue to shop around or change their mind while I hold the time for them.
How could this behavior be rationalized?
With over a hundred million passengers annually it takes time for unusual behavior to be detected.
I would not like my clients to give me a deposit by check on a closed account so I block out time for a project but they want to continue to shop around or change their mind while I hold the time for them.
How could this behavior be rationalized?
I had the exact same thought.
I wonder how many miles the OP has in their AA account. If you value then at $.01 per mile (questionable), then the $21K only makes sense if s/he has >2.1M miles.
Apr 2, 2019, 8:25 am
#41
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: AUS
Programs: AA Exec Platinum/MM, DL Gold/MM, Hilton Diamond, Accor Platinum, Hertz Presidents Circle
Posts: 6,976
I'm a little confused. Did the OP book and actually fly on any of these tickets? If they were all eventually cancelled prior to flight time, I don't see where AA is really out any money, other than some nebulous opportunity loss for not being able to sell the seat while it was in this payment limbo. Moreover, AA bears a lot of responsibility for not properly validating the CC at the time of purchase and rejecting the sale then.
That said, I do agree that AA is completely justified in cutting the OP off from the system. One or two tickets booked this way could legitimately be considered to be a mistake. Repeated bogus bookings are clearly deliberate and abusive. And, frankly, pretty weird behavior. Any vendor would cut him off under the circumstances.
That said, I do agree that AA is completely justified in cutting the OP off from the system. One or two tickets booked this way could legitimately be considered to be a mistake. Repeated bogus bookings are clearly deliberate and abusive. And, frankly, pretty weird behavior. Any vendor would cut him off under the circumstances.
Apr 2, 2019, 8:48 am
#42
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
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I'm a little confused. Did the OP book and actually fly on any of these tickets? If they were all eventually cancelled prior to flight time, I don't see where AA is really out any money, other than some nebulous opportunity loss for not being able to sell the seat while it was in this payment limbo. Moreover, AA bears a lot of responsibility for not properly validating the CC at the time of purchase and rejecting the sale then.
That said, I do agree that AA is completely justified in cutting the OP off from the system. One or two tickets booked this way could legitimately be considered to be a mistake. Repeated bogus bookings are clearly deliberate and abusive. And, frankly, pretty weird behavior. Any vendor would cut him off under the circumstances.
That said, I do agree that AA is completely justified in cutting the OP off from the system. One or two tickets booked this way could legitimately be considered to be a mistake. Repeated bogus bookings are clearly deliberate and abusive. And, frankly, pretty weird behavior. Any vendor would cut him off under the circumstances.
Thus, if one completes the contract to purchase, one owes the money for the ticket. Period.
Whether one may then cancel the ticket for a refund or credit with or without a penalty is a matter of the fare rules.
Whether AA can resell the seat is irrelevant.
Whether AA could have done more to prevent OP's fraud is also irrelevant on the question of whether OP owes AA the $60K or the $21K AA is willing to accept as a settlement.
Apr 2, 2019, 9:06 am
#43
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: SAN
Programs: AA CK, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 839
Three years, $68K in flights - one is left to wonder how many other passengers were screwed out of flights that were on hold and cancelled. Also wondering if others engaged in this sceme?
OP has few options, none of them favorable. OP should start over with another carrier.
OP has few options, none of them favorable. OP should start over with another carrier.
Apr 2, 2019, 9:19 am
#44
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Normally a pending charge falls off a credit card after about a week and needs to be re-authorized. I'm not sure AA could even put post a charge on a credit card three or four weeks after the "purchase" without the credit card owner giving permission again.
Apr 2, 2019, 9:22 am
#45
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The entire loss and damage issue is a red herring. This is a contract to purchase a ticket for a stated price. Whether it can be cancelled by the passenger for a refund is a matter for the fare rules.
Thus, if one completes the contract to purchase, one owes the money for the ticket. Period.
Whether one may then cancel the ticket for a refund or credit with or without a penalty is a matter of the fare rules.
Whether AA can resell the seat is irrelevant.
Whether AA could have done more to prevent OP's fraud is also irrelevant on the question of whether OP owes AA the $60K or the $21K AA is willing to accept as a settlement.
Thus, if one completes the contract to purchase, one owes the money for the ticket. Period.
Whether one may then cancel the ticket for a refund or credit with or without a penalty is a matter of the fare rules.
Whether AA can resell the seat is irrelevant.
Whether AA could have done more to prevent OP's fraud is also irrelevant on the question of whether OP owes AA the $60K or the $21K AA is willing to accept as a settlement.
After a year has passed, it's too late to get a refund or to use a credit toward future travel.