Passenger acceptance: Can Passenger complaints get you kicked off a flight?
Jan 31, 2020, 10:02 am
#46
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The airline didnt do anything! Sort of when I go on a rant with a csr I usually start by saying should I raise my voice or say so notnice words Please dont take it personally as Im sure you had nothing to do with why Im calling and complaining, all too often people load off on any employee of the biz they have a bad thing with, when that employee has no idea what went down and might even 100% agree with you and try to help you. Just cause 1 employee does wrong doesnt mean then whole company is to blame. So yes while it still existed I kept flying them w/o any incident
Jan 31, 2020, 10:19 am
#47
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After a shower, you need to add deodorant and anti-antiperspirant to your underarms. There are strong antiperspirants on the market that will help with sweating if you sweat a lot, they can be bought in most pharmacies and grocery stores for a couple of bucks. I'll apply my antiperspirant liberally if I'm going to be somewhere warm or somewhere my arms are going to be motion restricted like on a plane. It's courtesy to others, plus I don't like the smell of B.O.
Jan 31, 2020, 10:24 am
#48
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from article in NY Post today
" The couple said they suffered emotional distress, damage to personal and professional reputations, loss of appetite, insomnia, and fear associated with airports and flying, according to the filing.". Sorry I dont buy any of this, its like a small fender bender and the people in the car that was hit all of a sudden are in so much pain they cant do anything any longer, that is until the suit is settled
"Adler claims he asked a flight attendant for headphones, saying the cabin crew on the last plane he was on told him he could ask for them, according to the suit.The pilot, who was nearby, snapped, “I wasn’t on that plane and we don’t offer anything complimentary,” the lawsuit says
The pilot, who was nearby, snapped, “I wasn’t on that plane and we don’t offer anything complimentary,” the lawsuit says.
A few minutes later, according to the filing, a gate agent informed the family that there was an emergency and asked them to get off the plane — and they were later told it was due to BO and at the pilot’s orders(.I dont get why if this is how it went down did he ask for them it seems the sec he boarded rather then wait till they usually give them out or sell them. Plausable but w/o any other passengers coming forward to say thats what went down its not credible, even thou I went thru something like that myself and no I didnt sue for being thrown off or claim it was due to the FA being a bigot, a bigot she wasnt (at least I dont believe so, an idiot that Yes), But once you tick off a crew member you just got to know you will lose, in this case Adler had it with the Capt, who has the last word and its gospel
"Adler claims he asked a flight attendant for headphones, saying the cabin crew on the last plane he was on told him he could ask for them, according to the suit.The pilot, who was nearby, snapped, “I wasn’t on that plane and we don’t offer anything complimentary,” the lawsuit says
The pilot, who was nearby, snapped, “I wasn’t on that plane and we don’t offer anything complimentary,” the lawsuit says.
A few minutes later, according to the filing, a gate agent informed the family that there was an emergency and asked them to get off the plane — and they were later told it was due to BO and at the pilot’s orders(.I dont get why if this is how it went down did he ask for them it seems the sec he boarded rather then wait till they usually give them out or sell them. Plausable but w/o any other passengers coming forward to say thats what went down its not credible, even thou I went thru something like that myself and no I didnt sue for being thrown off or claim it was due to the FA being a bigot, a bigot she wasnt (at least I dont believe so, an idiot that Yes), But once you tick off a crew member you just got to know you will lose, in this case Adler had it with the Capt, who has the last word and its gospel
Jan 31, 2020, 11:05 am
#49
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All of this sounds like a shake down. Possibly the Captain got a "wiff" of the paxs ahead time? BTW where was this pilot that he would hear a pax asking for headphones. During boarding pilots are busy in the cockpit doing pre checks and filing flight plans, not listening to idle conversations in the cabin. None of this makes sense. Possibly the FAs smelled the offending paxs, asked the Captain for guidance and he wanted them off the plane. What this has to do with headphones is beyond me.
Jan 31, 2020, 12:59 pm
#50
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Traveling the World
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Lets also not forget that consuming onions, Garlic, Beans and Curries before a flight can cause Body Odors. Various medications can also lead to Body Odors as well as various medical conditions. If in reality its due to a person's religion its discriminating. I remember on Airline about Southwest Airlines a man had an offensive body odor and they politely asked the man to change his shirt, wash under the arms and put on deodorant which he did and was allowed to fly and they even gave him a meal/drink voucher to mitigate the humiliation and provided extra uniform clothes for the man to change into.
So yes the Contract of Carriage does allow for airlines to deny boarding due to being inebriated, body odors, or for offensive behaviors or shirts. But airlines can't call out a persons religion and say its due to their religion that they don't bathe that is very degrading.
I bathe before a flight and on longhauls take showers. 24 hours of traveling really is hard on the body and bringing a change of clothes, deodorant and soap may be a good idea especially if you have an overactive sweat gland.
So yes the Contract of Carriage does allow for airlines to deny boarding due to being inebriated, body odors, or for offensive behaviors or shirts. But airlines can't call out a persons religion and say its due to their religion that they don't bathe that is very degrading.
I bathe before a flight and on longhauls take showers. 24 hours of traveling really is hard on the body and bringing a change of clothes, deodorant and soap may be a good idea especially if you have an overactive sweat gland.
Jan 31, 2020, 2:26 pm
#51
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Lets also not forget that consuming onions, Garlic, Beans and Curries before a flight can cause Body Odors. Various medications can also lead to Body Odors as well as various medical conditions. If in reality its due to a person's religion its discriminating. I remember on Airline about Southwest Airlines a man had an offensive body odor and they politely asked the man to change his shirt, wash under the arms and put on deodorant which he did and was allowed to fly and they even gave him a meal/drink voucher to mitigate the humiliation and provided extra uniform clothes for the man to change into.
So yes the Contract of Carriage does allow for airlines to deny boarding due to being inebriated, body odors, or for offensive behaviors or shirts. But airlines can't call out a persons religion and say its due to their religion that they don't bathe that is very degrading.
I bathe before a flight and on longhauls take showers. 24 hours of traveling really is hard on the body and bringing a change of clothes, deodorant and soap may be a good idea especially if you have an overactive sweat gland.
So yes the Contract of Carriage does allow for airlines to deny boarding due to being inebriated, body odors, or for offensive behaviors or shirts. But airlines can't call out a persons religion and say its due to their religion that they don't bathe that is very degrading.
I bathe before a flight and on longhauls take showers. 24 hours of traveling really is hard on the body and bringing a change of clothes, deodorant and soap may be a good idea especially if you have an overactive sweat gland.
Jan 31, 2020, 4:54 pm
#52
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Companies are only required to make "reasonable" accommodations for religious belief. Most people would argue that it's unreasonable to force other passengers to sit beside someone who smells bad in an enclosed space for several hours. So even if your religion somehow requires you to smell bad (and I know of no such religions, despite knowing people of several different religions) it does not mean that airlines are required to accommodate you.
Of course the definition of "reasonable" is debatable; that's why there are courts.
Of course the definition of "reasonable" is debatable; that's why there are courts.
Feb 1, 2020, 4:09 am
#53
Join Date: Jun 2011
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lots of lawyers in MIA. Going for a settlement of this lawsuit most likely.
Hyperosmia is a real thing. AKA Super Smellers. Mrs. boerne is one, poor woman. The article below says Super Smellers are rare, however they are not as rare as this article has said in my experience. It is quite possible that one or more super smellers were near them at the same time, and the whole ear phone thing went down and was temporally related.
I knew momma was a super smeller when we went to a "sensory evaluation of wine" 2 day course at UC Davis, and she could tell the demo bottle of Marlborough Sauv Blanc was corked before the instructor could.
sample article hyperosmia
https://link.springer.com/article/10...682-018-0008-9
If you want to test yourself there are a couple of ways to do this, and at least one board game
https://smelltest.eu/en/burghart-sniffin-sticks-burghart-smelltests/?
gclid=Cj0KCQiA4NTxBRDxARIsAHyp6gB3xLwgUol3jzA571aT 9qFmyEqtj_MQEOWsQ049qdwgfKJ0WuuDPHkaAmdsEALw_wcB
game
https://aromaster.com/product/wine-aroma-game/
Hyperosmia is a real thing. AKA Super Smellers. Mrs. boerne is one, poor woman. The article below says Super Smellers are rare, however they are not as rare as this article has said in my experience. It is quite possible that one or more super smellers were near them at the same time, and the whole ear phone thing went down and was temporally related.
I knew momma was a super smeller when we went to a "sensory evaluation of wine" 2 day course at UC Davis, and she could tell the demo bottle of Marlborough Sauv Blanc was corked before the instructor could.
sample article hyperosmia
https://link.springer.com/article/10...682-018-0008-9
If you want to test yourself there are a couple of ways to do this, and at least one board game
https://smelltest.eu/en/burghart-sniffin-sticks-burghart-smelltests/?
gclid=Cj0KCQiA4NTxBRDxARIsAHyp6gB3xLwgUol3jzA571aT 9qFmyEqtj_MQEOWsQ049qdwgfKJ0WuuDPHkaAmdsEALw_wcB
game
https://aromaster.com/product/wine-aroma-game/
Feb 1, 2020, 12:49 pm
#54
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Here is what I think might have happened.
The male passenger asked for headphones on a prior flight and was told "Ask on your flight."
On his next flight he asked for headphones, and was refused.
Upon reaching his seat, other passengers noticed the BO and discreetly asked the FAs to move him away from them or vice versa. The FA probably conferred with others, as well as the Captain, and arranged for the passenger and companions to deplane, discreetly, saying there was some kind of "emergency". An "emergency" could be anything. Family matters, business issues, whatever.
They deplaned, then was told they would not fly due to BO.
I am guessing, here, they entered into some kind of debate with the airline personnel, at which point some idiot made the stupid remark about bathing once a week. (That particular idiotic airline employee should be disciplined or fired, in my opinion.)
Because of that stupid remark, they decided to sue for discrimination, etc., thus putting their own names and BO problem out into the world. Later, they claim morbid humiliation because their names and BO problem are out into the world.
In my opinion, the airline's defense is pretty straightforward:
1. Every day, thousands of Jews fly on AA without incident, without discrimination and without BO.
2. Every day, there are a few passengers in the huge system who are deplaned due to passenger or crew complaints of BO. Those passengers are of assorted race, religion, whatever.
3. Most of those BO-challenged passengers simply go to a hotel or airport restroom, wash, change clothes, etc, then get on the next flight without further ado and without public shame.
4. The inexcusable stupid remark made by one employee, since disciplined or fired, was done during a protracted argument, perhaps in response to a similarly hostile accusation that the airline employees were acting of religious discrimination motivations.
(I know I might react defensively if I was trying to handle a difficult customer and that customer accused me of "You're just doing this because I am _____". It's still inexcusable, no matter.)
It is difficult for me to believe that a group of unrelated stranger passengers, plus flight attendants, all conspired to get this family off the aircraft purely due to religious discrimination reasons, not due to BO problems and and the comfort of other passengers.
The male passenger asked for headphones on a prior flight and was told "Ask on your flight."
On his next flight he asked for headphones, and was refused.
Upon reaching his seat, other passengers noticed the BO and discreetly asked the FAs to move him away from them or vice versa. The FA probably conferred with others, as well as the Captain, and arranged for the passenger and companions to deplane, discreetly, saying there was some kind of "emergency". An "emergency" could be anything. Family matters, business issues, whatever.
They deplaned, then was told they would not fly due to BO.
I am guessing, here, they entered into some kind of debate with the airline personnel, at which point some idiot made the stupid remark about bathing once a week. (That particular idiotic airline employee should be disciplined or fired, in my opinion.)
Because of that stupid remark, they decided to sue for discrimination, etc., thus putting their own names and BO problem out into the world. Later, they claim morbid humiliation because their names and BO problem are out into the world.
In my opinion, the airline's defense is pretty straightforward:
1. Every day, thousands of Jews fly on AA without incident, without discrimination and without BO.
2. Every day, there are a few passengers in the huge system who are deplaned due to passenger or crew complaints of BO. Those passengers are of assorted race, religion, whatever.
3. Most of those BO-challenged passengers simply go to a hotel or airport restroom, wash, change clothes, etc, then get on the next flight without further ado and without public shame.
4. The inexcusable stupid remark made by one employee, since disciplined or fired, was done during a protracted argument, perhaps in response to a similarly hostile accusation that the airline employees were acting of religious discrimination motivations.
(I know I might react defensively if I was trying to handle a difficult customer and that customer accused me of "You're just doing this because I am _____". It's still inexcusable, no matter.)
It is difficult for me to believe that a group of unrelated stranger passengers, plus flight attendants, all conspired to get this family off the aircraft purely due to religious discrimination reasons, not due to BO problems and and the comfort of other passengers.
Feb 1, 2020, 1:05 pm
#55
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CNN is now reporting (and escalated this story as a FB post from their official page) that an AA GA was quoted telling the couple that "he knew 'Orthodox Jews only shower once per week'." CNN's reporting includes AA corporate claiming "religion was not a factor" but does not include any response by AA corporate to the allegation of this quote.
If that's anywhere near what was said by the GA in handling this situation, then this situation goes way beyond body odor.
Totally concur with Queen of Coach - the GA who made that statement needs to be sacked.
If that's anywhere near what was said by the GA in handling this situation, then this situation goes way beyond body odor.
Totally concur with Queen of Coach - the GA who made that statement needs to be sacked.
Last edited by aoumd; Feb 1, 2020 at 1:16 pm
Feb 1, 2020, 4:17 pm
#56
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OTOH, this guy flying to Houston was disembarked at DFW when other passengers indicated their discomfort. He was presumably attempting to protect himself from novel Coronavirus?
Man taken off American Airlines flight for wearing gas mask https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-51342278
Man taken off American Airlines flight for wearing gas mask https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-51342278
Feb 1, 2020, 5:02 pm
#57
Join Date: Jun 2011
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I am a huge fan of JDiver. but moving this thread off of the smelly passengers seems a little weird. <snip>
to swing back to possibly smelly passengers that this thread was about, the N95 masks might ameliorate a smelly person a little, but the better choice is to have an organic vapor cartridge on your N95 mask. Check the links below. If you really want to be safe on any flight see the picture I included.
https://pksafety.com/3m-organic-vapo...dge-pair-6001/
https://www.google.com/search?q=pers...hrome&ie=UTF-8
to swing back to possibly smelly passengers that this thread was about, the N95 masks might ameliorate a smelly person a little, but the better choice is to have an organic vapor cartridge on your N95 mask. Check the links below. If you really want to be safe on any flight see the picture I included.
https://pksafety.com/3m-organic-vapo...dge-pair-6001/
https://www.google.com/search?q=pers...hrome&ie=UTF-8
Last edited by JDiver; Feb 2, 2020 at 10:20 am Reason: Removed parts relating to nCoV and protection
Feb 1, 2020, 6:57 pm
#58
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Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 24,153
If that holds up w/o any names and seat #s then any crew member can get anyone off loaded for any reason and simply say well a bunch of the other passengers were complaining.
Feb 1, 2020, 11:20 pm
#59
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Traveling the World
Posts: 6,075
CNN is now reporting (and escalated this story as a FB post from their official page) that an AA GA was quoted telling the couple that "he knew 'Orthodox Jews only shower once per week'." CNN's reporting includes AA corporate claiming "religion was not a factor" but does not include any response by AA corporate to the allegation of this quote.
If that's anywhere near what was said by the GA in handling this situation, then this situation goes way beyond body odor.
Totally concur with Queen of Coach - the GA who made that statement needs to be sacked.
If that's anywhere near what was said by the GA in handling this situation, then this situation goes way beyond body odor.
Totally concur with Queen of Coach - the GA who made that statement needs to be sacked.
Feb 2, 2020, 10:26 am
#60
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Join Date: May 2000
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I am a huge fan of JDiver. but moving this thread off of the smelly passengers seems a little weird. <snip>
to swing back to possibly smelly passengers that this thread was about, the N95 masks might ameliorate a smelly person a little, but the better choice is to have an organic vapor cartridge on your N95 mask. Check the links below. If you really want to be safe on any flight see the picture I included.
https://pksafety.com/3m-organic-vapo...dge-pair-6001/
https://www.google.com/search?q=pers...hrome&ie=UTF-8
to swing back to possibly smelly passengers that this thread was about, the N95 masks might ameliorate a smelly person a little, but the better choice is to have an organic vapor cartridge on your N95 mask. Check the links below. If you really want to be safe on any flight see the picture I included.
https://pksafety.com/3m-organic-vapo...dge-pair-6001/
https://www.google.com/search?q=pers...hrome&ie=UTF-8
Rather than reply about the specific body odor complaint, I added a story about another person who apparently had passengers’ complaints made about his choice of wearing a gas mask and watch cap pulled down over parts of the gas mask used to disembark him from a flight. The title is broader than the family much of the discussion has focused on. My apology to anyone who felt I was attempting to move this thread off topic.
Last edited by JDiver; Feb 2, 2020 at 10:34 am