Jan 3, 2018, 5:05 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
AA has increased award availability at the SAAver / MileSAAver level, apparently at the cost of reducing the availability of nonstop and direct routing and increasing availability requiring connections using married segment logic.
This means those originating travel at one hub may well find themselves forced to connect through another hub - whose residents will also be required to connect through another hub. This is suspected to be a way of accommodating SAAver awards without competing with those purchasing more convenient nonstop routing. See post #17 by ashill.
Gary Leff: “Cranky Flier got American to confirm last week that much of the space they’ve opened up is on connecting flights. They’re offering married segment availability — award space that’s highly restrictive...”
See American Significantly Increases Coach Award Space On Connecting Flights, By Cranky Flier on Dec 21, 2017
How to Game American’s New Connecting Flight Award Availability to Get the Ticket You Want, by Gary Leff on December 26, 2017 but see post #75 by Psyclone*Jack; this loophole may now be closed.
"When selling seats for through flights and the desired inventory is not available, you cannot opt to sell the flight point-to-point. If sold point-to-point, the error response MULTIPLE SEGMENTS FOR SAME FLIGHT - SELL AS ONE SEGMENT will be received, indicating this booking is not allowed. Overriding the error check by ending the PNR twice is not acceptable." Link to FT thread; see wikipost info by JonNYC and hillrider.
"Sometimes when you’re searching for award space... you’ll find that some seats will show as available when you search for them from origin to destination, but when you call to book the flights segment-by-segment, those flights show as unavailable."
"Married segment logic is a tool used by airlines that restricts availability based on origin and destination, rather than by segments."(DCTA, on Boarding Area)
Link to Boarding Area: Sunday Reader Question: What are married segments?
Link to Worldspan page with extensive information on MSL and coding.
Older posts have been archived off to https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/amer...nnections.html
This means those originating travel at one hub may well find themselves forced to connect through another hub - whose residents will also be required to connect through another hub. This is suspected to be a way of accommodating SAAver awards without competing with those purchasing more convenient nonstop routing. See post #17 by ashill.
Gary Leff: “Cranky Flier got American to confirm last week that much of the space they’ve opened up is on connecting flights. They’re offering married segment availability — award space that’s highly restrictive...”
See American Significantly Increases Coach Award Space On Connecting Flights, By Cranky Flier on Dec 21, 2017
How to Game American’s New Connecting Flight Award Availability to Get the Ticket You Want, by Gary Leff on December 26, 2017 but see post #75 by Psyclone*Jack; this loophole may now be closed.
Married Segment Logic and Effects on Awards
"When selling seats for through flights and the desired inventory is not available, you cannot opt to sell the flight point-to-point. If sold point-to-point, the error response MULTIPLE SEGMENTS FOR SAME FLIGHT - SELL AS ONE SEGMENT will be received, indicating this booking is not allowed. Overriding the error check by ending the PNR twice is not acceptable." Link to FT thread; see wikipost info by JonNYC and hillrider.
"Sometimes when you’re searching for award space... you’ll find that some seats will show as available when you search for them from origin to destination, but when you call to book the flights segment-by-segment, those flights show as unavailable."
"Married segment logic is a tool used by airlines that restricts availability based on origin and destination, rather than by segments."(DCTA, on Boarding Area)
Married segment logic controls routings based on origin and destination, rather than segment-by-segment availability. Boarding Area
From Amadeus: Married Segment Control Link
Amadeus Married Segment Control is a revenue maximisation tool that ensures that airline revenue management decisions, made at availability time, are applied throughout the booking process. It prevents agents bypassing availability controls, based on origin and destination (O&D) information. It also improves both load factors and revenue forecasting accuracy.
Key benefits
Amadeus Married Segment Control is a revenue maximisation tool that ensures that airline revenue management decisions, made at availability time, are applied throughout the booking process. It prevents agents bypassing availability controls, based on origin and destination (O&D) information. It also improves both load factors and revenue forecasting accuracy.
Key benefits
- Ensures more effective forecasting by preventing O&D misuse and matching revenue forecasts with final revenues.
- Improves consistency of sales processes by controlling travel agent selling behaviour.
- Fully customisable and flexible solution that meets airline unique system requirements.
Older posts have been archived off to https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/amer...nnections.html
More award availability restricted by married segments / connections
Oct 7, 2018, 11:45 pm
#227
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 191
Some data points:
trying to book business class award travel San Diego to Japan for late October. Have been obsessively looking at Alaska's website to check JAL availability. Check from San Diego...check from Los Angeles...check from San Francisco...check from Vancouver (some).....
Almost gave up and decided, why not check Hong Kong (thinking CX and then flight to Japan) .....checking that on Qantas site revealed a SAN-LAX-NRT-HKG route. What???? That's the route I wanted originally.
Went to AA site. Plugged in SAN-NRT and voila SAN-LAX-NRT available for 2 in business for the date I wanted. ExpertFlyer, Alaska, and BA showed no availability for LAX-NRT. Trying to book return flight, and I can get NRT-DFW-CLE to show up, but nothing west of the the Mississippi.
trying to book business class award travel San Diego to Japan for late October. Have been obsessively looking at Alaska's website to check JAL availability. Check from San Diego...check from Los Angeles...check from San Francisco...check from Vancouver (some).....
Almost gave up and decided, why not check Hong Kong (thinking CX and then flight to Japan) .....checking that on Qantas site revealed a SAN-LAX-NRT-HKG route. What???? That's the route I wanted originally.
Went to AA site. Plugged in SAN-NRT and voila SAN-LAX-NRT available for 2 in business for the date I wanted. ExpertFlyer, Alaska, and BA showed no availability for LAX-NRT. Trying to book return flight, and I can get NRT-DFW-CLE to show up, but nothing west of the the Mississippi.
Oct 15, 2018, 9:35 pm
#228
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 191
Something funny is going on. Booked trip SAN-LAX-NRT and continued to check on availability for other days. (Thursday) showed lots of availability thru the end of the month with married segments via ORD/DFW/LAX. Great! fyi....business class
fyi
checked again on...
(Friday) nothing,....no award space
(Saturday) It's back...same availability
(Sunday) nothing
(Monday) nothing
it's that same space available whether it's next week or a month or 9 months from now....
fyi
checked again on...
(Friday) nothing,....no award space
(Saturday) It's back...same availability
(Sunday) nothing
(Monday) nothing
it's that same space available whether it's next week or a month or 9 months from now....
Oct 15, 2018, 11:12 pm
#229
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Thousand Oaks, Ca., USA
Programs: AA Lifetime Plat; Bonvoy Titanium Lifetime Elite;Hyatt Globalist; HHonors Diamond; United Silver
Posts: 8,319
Something funny is going on. Booked trip SAN-LAX-NRT and continued to check on availability for other days. (Thursday) showed lots of availability thru the end of the month with married segments via ORD/DFW/LAX. Great! fyi....business class
fyi
checked again on...
(Friday) nothing,....no award space
(Saturday) It's back...same availability
(Sunday) nothing
(Monday) nothing
it's that same space available whether it's next week or a month or 9 months from now....
fyi
checked again on...
(Friday) nothing,....no award space
(Saturday) It's back...same availability
(Sunday) nothing
(Monday) nothing
it's that same space available whether it's next week or a month or 9 months from now....
Nov 5, 2018, 12:14 am
#231
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: PDX
Programs: DL, UA, AA, BA, AS, SPG, MR, IHG, PC
Posts: 862
This makes no sense (married segment logic/award flight), to merge
Was planning on flying AA from PSP to AKL on 11/12 with an award ticket. The routing would be PSP-PHX-LAX-AKL for 40K miles. Then thought about driving to LAX. On the same day the segment from LAX to AKL, same flight is 90K miles. Also on the same day the only way you can fly to AKL from LAX for 40K miles is LAX-SYD-AKL . Am I missing something here?
Nov 5, 2018, 5:16 am
#233
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 23,071
Married segment logic might come into play for an award trips which have fixed levels, but for revenue flights that's not what it's about. For revenue flights, it's just how many airlines structure their fares based on being able to charge more for non-stop flight convenience. So A-B-C fares are less than B-C fares. It's the fare themselves that are different, not necessarily the segment bucket availability. Married segment logic is different (there's A bucket availability for A-B and B-C fares, but only B bucket for A-B-C through fares).
Last edited by xliioper; Nov 5, 2018 at 5:22 am
Nov 5, 2018, 9:29 am
#234
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 27,239
Yeah, married segment logic on awards makes it easier for the airline to charge more for nonstop itineraries (like they've done on paid itineraries for ages often using different methods), without obliterating the award chart like Delta has.
Nov 5, 2018, 9:58 am
#235
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Laguna Niguel, CA
Programs: AA PLT, 1.8mm
Posts: 6,988
there is not logic to AA pricing. Example, I booked a 12/8 LAX-RDU (via DFW) in F a few months ago for $ 458 each for 2 of us. I checked today, same price for one person, same flights. When I add a second person to the itin, the price jumps to $ 693 per person for the same flights.
Nov 5, 2018, 10:04 am
#236
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Juneau, Alaska.
Programs: AS 75K;BA Silver;AA G;HH Dia;HY Glob
Posts: 15,822
there is not logic to AA pricing. Example, I booked a 12/8 LAX-RDU (via DFW) in F a few months ago for $ 458 each for 2 of us. I checked today, same price for one person, same flights. When I add a second person to the itin, the price jumps to $ 693 per person for the same flights.
Nov 5, 2018, 11:19 am
#237
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 27,239
Exactly, that has nothing to do with logical or illogical pricing. Of course the savvy travelers know they can still get one seat at the cheaper fare and one at the more expensive fare, but will have to book them under separate reservations.
There was a post recently on the Air France board, someone was looking to buy 4 int'l F seats, but noticed that he could get 3 at, say, $8k r/t (so $24k total), when he tried to book 4, the price went up to like $60k. Seems illogical on the face, but obviously the flight had only 3 seats in the discounted "F" inventory, and booking for 4 pushed them *all* up to the much, much more expensive full "P" inventory.
Now, could the airlines disclose this better? Maybe, but I always search for 1 seat first, and if this situation arises, most of the sites are good about showing "Only 1 seat remaining at this price!" warnings.
There was a post recently on the Air France board, someone was looking to buy 4 int'l F seats, but noticed that he could get 3 at, say, $8k r/t (so $24k total), when he tried to book 4, the price went up to like $60k. Seems illogical on the face, but obviously the flight had only 3 seats in the discounted "F" inventory, and booking for 4 pushed them *all* up to the much, much more expensive full "P" inventory.
Now, could the airlines disclose this better? Maybe, but I always search for 1 seat first, and if this situation arises, most of the sites are good about showing "Only 1 seat remaining at this price!" warnings.
Nov 5, 2018, 11:35 am
#238
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Not here; there!
Programs: AA Lifetime Gold
Posts: 29,606
Was planning on flying AA from PSP to AKL on 11/12 with an award ticket. The routing would be PSP-PHX-LAX-AKL for 40K miles. Then thought about driving to LAX. On the same day the segment from LAX to AKL, same flight is 90K miles. Also on the same day the only way you can fly to AKL from LAX for 40K miles is LAX-SYD-AKL . Am I missing something here?
Nov 5, 2018, 11:42 am
#239
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: CUR
Posts: 2,170
there is not logic to AA pricing. Example, I booked a 12/8 LAX-RDU (via DFW) in F a few months ago for $ 458 each for 2 of us. I checked today, same price for one person, same flights. When I add a second person to the itin, the price jumps to $ 693 per person for the same flights.
Nov 5, 2018, 12:00 pm
#240
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2004
Location: DFW/DAL
Programs: AA Lifetime PLT, AS MVPG, HH Diamond, NCL Platinum Plus, MSC Diamond
Posts: 21,422
there is not logic to AA pricing. Example, I booked a 12/8 LAX-RDU (via DFW) in F a few months ago for $ 458 each for 2 of us. I checked today, same price for one person, same flights. When I add a second person to the itin, the price jumps to $ 693 per person for the same flights.
Book them separately. Then you will get one for $458 and the other for $693. They don't sell 2 different fares on one PNR
(One person with fare A and the second with fare B)