My Colleague Was Bumped from Upgraded F Seat by a Celeb
#76
Join Date: Apr 2017
Programs: AA, DL, Avis, Enterprise, National, IHG, HH, SPG/MR
Posts: 1,852
And therein lies the problem. Those pesky customers and their ignorance! We'll teach them a lesson, now won't we?!
People approach these things like matters of law. Oh, the CoC, let's wave that in everyone's face and pound the table; that'll show 'em. I rest my case, blah blah blah. Yeah, you win the battle, but have you lost the war? The $1M lifetime value CK walks - you're proud and list this on your CV, I'm sure. Mr. Parker gives you a promotion?
People approach these things like matters of law. Oh, the CoC, let's wave that in everyone's face and pound the table; that'll show 'em. I rest my case, blah blah blah. Yeah, you win the battle, but have you lost the war? The $1M lifetime value CK walks - you're proud and list this on your CV, I'm sure. Mr. Parker gives you a promotion?
And it’s not likely a CK will walk for something so frivolous as being told to fly in the seat he paid for. In fact, I’d speculate that it would tke a heck of a lot more for a CK to discontinue his business than a customer with lower or no status.
But these aren't legal problems, they are indeed marketing problems - a discipline which in fact addresses more than "sugarcoating" to avoid damaging "fragile egos". And they are, unfortunately for your bull-in-a-china-shop black-and-white worldview, more nuanced than the prosecutorial mindset you advance can support. AA's business isn't to uphold a legal standard passed down in its CoC, it's to maximize return for its shareholders. Doing so is a balancing act. And, given the resources placed on the AAdvantage program, likely supported by data which you and I are not privy to, I suspect that they believe said program, and its explicit and implied benefits, to be valuable. So, go ahead, off with your best customers' heads, it's just marketing after all. Maybe that flies in your lines of work, but not many others.
If it were me? "Mr. Sanders, I'm so sorry, but this flight is pushing back full. May we escort you to the Flagship Lounge while we arrange for the next flight out in an hour?"
#77
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: USA & UK -- AA EXP 3.5MM, Hyatt Diamond, SPG Plat, Avis President's Club
Posts: 6,411
So why doesn't AA remove upgrades from its program? They're making representations that this is a feature of the program. Why do you think AA is making these representations, and why do you think AA maintains this program? Do you not believe that it drives incremental revenue? Is it not AA itself that is fostering this "outrageous entitlement"?
A CK at ~$50k/year - ...
Nowhere in the terms and conditions does AA guarantee FC travel at coach prices.
#78
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Escondido, CA
Programs: US Chairman no more. AA EXP
Posts: 682
Neon Deion Sanders is a huge celebrity - maybe not in the same category as Diddy or the Kardashians but he is big time. Who cares about flying first for a forgettable segment? You have the story that you got kicked out of your seat for Primetime and makes for good conversation down at the local tavern.
#79
Join Date: Feb 2006
Programs: UGS, AA CK
Posts: 212
They should remove this offering because people are ignorant about the conditions? Should they also just stop carrying people and luggage for the same reason?
Those representations are still subject to the rules both parties have agreed to. The rules don’t go away just because you or I don’t like them.
Why should AA have to pay the consequences for the ignorance of its customers?
I don’t work for AA’s marketing team, I don’t have the burden of having to sugarcoat things to avoid hurting fragile egos.
#80
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: New York
Programs: AA, CX, Hyatt, Marriott
Posts: 1,484
I am so confused, if the BP was printed with a F seat assignment, then it was AA who enabled "entitlement" to the pax, so where was that "sense of entitlement" coming from? With this logic, AA could literally sell F on an auction basis until T-1 and bump the lowest bids? Maybe even English auction instead of Dutch then huh?
#81
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: DCA
Programs: UA LT 1K, AA EXP, Bonvoy LT Titan, Avis PC, Hilton Gold
Posts: 9,658
I had to do a search to see who this was. 50 year old, retired football player, with estimated net worth of $40M. Not exactly a super Celeb. I am guessing the GA was a fan of his and processed the downgrade to give him the F seat.
#82
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: LAX
Programs: AAdvantage EXPLAT, Hilton Diamond, SPG/Marriott Gold, IHG Platinum, Citi Exec MC, Amex Plat
Posts: 1,443
I wouldn’t even recognize him if he sat down next to me, I suppose I’m bad with faces when they’re out of the arena I know them in.
#83
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Thousand Oaks, Ca., USA
Programs: AA Lifetime Plat; Bonvoy Titanium Lifetime Elite;Hyatt Globalist; HHonors Diamond; United Silver
Posts: 8,318
This notion of guaranteed an F seat is not what I'm talking about. Buying an F ticket doesn't buy a garanteed F seat either. The CoC DOES NOT give carte blanche, and I think that bumping a seated passenger to take more money from a walk up is inappropriate. So far from an outrageous sense of entitlement by most views here.
#84
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Huntsville, AL
Programs: DL DM 1.929MM, Hilton Lifetime Diamond, IHG Platinum, Avis CHM, Marriott Titanium (lifetime gold)
Posts: 7,860
#85
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 3,698
Hopefully you are not a lawyer; your contractual interpretations leave a lot to be desired. In fact, you're trying to have it both ways in this conversation. On the one hand, you are claiming that AA reserves the right to change seat assignments for "operational" reasons. Importantly, they don't reserve the right to rescind upgrades or move you between classes of service in the provision you're quoting so it's not at all unambiguous that it applies to this situation. More to the point, you're also arguing that on the other hand the plane is somehow "oversold" even though there's obviously a seat available in coach, so in order for this interpretation to hold up AA would have to care very much indeed about the fact that first class is a different than coach and can be oversold while coach is not. If that's the case, this "seat assignment" argument obviously doesn't apply since they're moving OP's colleague from one product to another, not just changing the assignment.
In any case, let's go with your pivot and assume we're talking about an oversold situation. Please let us know which section of the CoC allows AA to downgrade passengers on this basis.
2. Lacking a formal definition in the context of the document, the common meaning applies (as someone pointed out to me in another thread). Operational means anything pertaining to normal function and activity. I would argue that getting passengers from A to B is a normal function, so yes, they would essentially have carte blanche. But I agree it would be interesting to see a court decision about it.
#87
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Finally back in Boston after escaping from New York
Posts: 13,644
Hey, AA is a business and is in it to make money. If they can get money for a seat that they gave away for free, why not?
I have an even better proposal: AA sells every ticket with the condition that, if they can get somebody to pay more for it later, they have the right to rescind the sale to you. You will, of course, have the right to match the price that the other passenger was willing to pay and, in that case, you will get to keep your seat. If you are in F, they have the right to downgrade you and pay you the difference between what you paid and the highest cost of any coach fare sold.
Even better: Set the entire situation up as an auction. When you buy a ticket, you will see the seat map, and every seat will show what the highest bidder is for that particular seat. Winner gets the seat.
This whole situation is ridiculous. AA gave him a boarding pass. He boarded. He should have been allowed to stay.
Mike
I have an even better proposal: AA sells every ticket with the condition that, if they can get somebody to pay more for it later, they have the right to rescind the sale to you. You will, of course, have the right to match the price that the other passenger was willing to pay and, in that case, you will get to keep your seat. If you are in F, they have the right to downgrade you and pay you the difference between what you paid and the highest cost of any coach fare sold.
Even better: Set the entire situation up as an auction. When you buy a ticket, you will see the seat map, and every seat will show what the highest bidder is for that particular seat. Winner gets the seat.
This whole situation is ridiculous. AA gave him a boarding pass. He boarded. He should have been allowed to stay.
Mike
#88
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: DL: Silver; AA: EX PLAT; UA: Silver; HY: DIA; HH: DIA; MR: TIT
Posts: 1,708
I fail to see anything "outrageous" about the idea that once one is upgraded they remain upgraded. A GA bending the rules to upgrade this guy is what is outrageous. Also, even if the unicorn contract that the NFL Network has with AA guarantees F/J availability on every flight it operates, it would not allow ticketing beyond the normal time parameters. There is no way that Neon Deion getting at the gate at T-11 minutes and demanding an F class seat is supported by said contact IMHO.
#89
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Dallas, TX
Programs: WN A-list Preferred and CP, AA EXP, Hilton Diamond, RIP Kimpton
Posts: 853
FWIW, I'm highly confident in stating that Deion flies 80-100 paid F segments on AA each year. I don't know if his travel habits have changed in recent years but I do know those numbers to be accurate over the 2010-2014 time period.