We're talking about the #1 market in the US. Whether the investment "was worth it" need not be measured for many years still. DL seems to be pleasing shareholders as well as customers without breaking out profitability by station, so I'd give them a pass on this metric. If these routes continue to gravitate toward mainline/more premium RJs, that's a meaningful indicator. If they gravitate more toward regional jets with no first class to "better compete" with UA and AA offerings, that's also a meaningful indicator.

If you add LGA and JFK together (excluding EWR), you have 17.5 million passenger movements and 276 daily flights which puts it on par with PHX and well above the LAX hub and the DCA hub.

Except that is across two different airports. Not exactly a seemless (or advisable) connecting experience.

I'm flying LGA-ORD right now on a Monday morning and there are ZERO people on the UPG list and I cleared at T-100.

I'm not here to get into a debate about how an airline identifies its operation. I'll note that MISWESTERNFLYER referred to the "NYC operation". NYC obviously encompasses LGA and JFK and could arguably include EWR. AA similarly refers its market in its hub/airport fact sheets as the "New York City Airports." Call them hubs, call them focus cities, call them nests, call them temples. IDGAF. I'll leave it to the marketers at AA to decide what they want to call it..

I have 4,300 EQM with American YTD and 10,344 MQM with Delta... Looks like I will try to go for Gold with Delta and Gold with AA. AA should be pretty easy with a couple of transcons, and Delta should be pretty easy with the Amex MQM boost...

Both AA and Delta do a decent amount of connecting traffic either at LGA or JFK, especially when you consider connections to international partners at JFK. AA also built a flagship lounge at JFK, so they must think the market is important. I would call it a hub. I guess my question is does their current strategy of not serving some key markets while maintaining a "hub" presence make a lot of sense.

You're right that what you call it is somewhat arbitrary (try figuring out what WN's "hubs" are sometime). I'm just saying that a place like PHX and NYC operate in a totally different way. Other than some flights to feed the international operation at JFK, I don't think AA is trying to connect much in New York.

No one denies that, and no one has argued otherwise.

Does anyone think it's likely that at some point the Port Authority will try to build another runway or two at JFK (I'm not sure there's space to do that at LGA) to add capacity at JFK. I'm sure United (and to a lesser extent, American) would jump at the opportunity to get more slots there.

I foresee (and would prefer for a host of reasons, including environmental) capacity growth in the form of larger aircraft long before the airport is expanded/runways added.

Until then, B6 Mint for vacations rather than thru MIA.

Clearly not, they'd rather connect people via PHL. They want to save the prime seats out of New York for what in theory is higher-yielding origin/destination nonstop travel.

Oh, come on, 11am is not "Monday morning" in consultant travel-speak!

The problem doesn't seem to be runways but congested airspace, in part as the equipment ATC uses is decades old.

The NYC airspace is congested because of the limited runways. This is one reason for slot restrictions. The FAA is modernizing, albeit at a usual government slow pace.

it's physically impossible to build any more runway capacity at JFK without some major landfilling of Jamaica Bay adjacent to 13R-31L. Good luck with the environmentalists on that one.

Delta's flight at the same time had an UPG list of 20+ people.......just saying (and not complaining).

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30747505-post59.html

How does the move of BA into Terminal 8, with a greater allocation to international aircraft, impact this? Do you agree with the linked post that this means a greater decline of domestic AA service out of JFK>

JFK-MCO gone after June.

JFK-CLE/ORF/SAT getting trimmed in May. No confirmation whether this trimming is permanent or just for the month of May.

AA often loads the initial change into the schedule ~3 months into the future and then updates everything past that a week or 2 later. They did something similar to PHL-MEX and I expect this will have the same outcome.

Looks as though this has been brought forward. My wife was booked on the Friday afternoon service for the Memorial Day weekend and today received notification of a schedule change, which now involves a stop in CLT. The only non-stop flight from JFK/LGA to MCO that day is first thing in the morning from LGA.

I was hoping she'd be able to go via MIA and enjoy one of the 767s or 777s that are currently rostered that afternoon and enjoy the Flagship Lounge on the stopover but unfortunately non-stop timings for the afternoon are the only way it'll work for her.

This route going away is a personal loss for us, her grandparents live in Orlando and we used to enjoy the Friday afternoon/Sunday evening flights back every couple of months for the last four or five years. The MCO-JFK service in the evening went away in 2015 or so and we've put up with LGA arrivals for the last few years. With the timings on Friday evening service JFK-MCO getting later and later in the last 18months or so we've only used it the once, instead opting for B6's almost hourly service on brand new A321s. No Flagship Lounge and no FC which is rather annoying, but my wife won't fly DL unless it's an absolute last resort, even if it means downgrading to a loungeless, EMS seat on B6!

Hasn't actually changed:

The NYC/Florida routes are hyper competitive. Other than MIA AA has cut most of its fNYC to Florida flying out and AFAIK never had NYC/RSW or NYC/JAC.

And instead enjoy the even worse cesspool that is Philly?

AA has definitely flown LGA-RSW/JAX. JAX I think post-merger. RSW has not been flown in a long time.

Are JFK slots use or lose? I'm surprised that AA would not have some service lined up to replace routes they cut. Presumably if they want high dollar corporate contracts in NY, they are going to have to figure out what will actually work for them.

Yes, that I agree with.

Under the FAA's slot allocation guidelines, a carrier must generally use a slot 80% of the available time or it can be reclaimed by the FAA. That said, carriers can lease their slots to other airlines so theoretically, AA could reduce its flights at JFK and lease the freed up slots to another airline (perhaps another OW member). It sure looks like AA is intent on paring back domestic service at JFK to just hub routes, west coast premium and a few key routes while relying on LGA for short/mid domestic hops and the bet is that this will be enough to keep corporate accounts happy.

From the FAA's order on JFK slots:

Keep in mind JFK only has slot controls in the evening to night time, so if AA completely shrinks their daytime operation to zero they won’t lose any slots.

For me, as an AA passenger, JFK is great! Flagship Check-In with TSA Pre means I'm in the Flagship Lounge in less than 5 mins from the curb 90% of the time. T8 is bright and airy and new and not too big (compare to say T4 and the epic walks to even get to the DL Skyclub, or the clusterfudge that is security there). That's before I factor unique things to me such as "my guy" in the Flagship Lounge who my wife and I have got to know well due to regular visits that delivers phenomenal service consistently, etc.

The only JFK gripes I have are that the evening rush hour can mean longer taxi times (that said on a 5.30pm departure last week we were in the air 10mins after pushback) and although T8 is compact a great percentage of my flights seem to go from the further gates in the satellite concourse!

As an NYC based owner, while it can be a pain to get to JFK at certain hours, the terminal is one of the most pleasant in the New York area (I haven't seen the new LGA terminal). I fly more Delta now, and Delta's JFK terminal is a zoo.

Not sure if this is the right place to post, but noticed starting in May all RDU-LGA flights have been upgaged from mostly e-140 to all 2class E175s & 190s. Is AA drawing down the use of 140s at LGA or is this just a summer thing?

On the other hand, starting sometime in April/May, AA is drawing JFK-BOS down to a pathetic once daily flight that is poorly timed to connect with international service at JFK. JFK-BOS leaves after 10pm while BOS-JFK leaves in the early morning. What purpose does that single flight serve if it doesn't feed any international flights at JFK?

Even the RDU-JFK drawdown to twice daily leaves terrible timing for international connections. I think I heard Vasu Raja mention this before, but AA's main goal at JFK seems to be O&D (business) traffic, not connecting international traffic.