But AA can't bail out of JFK like DL and UA did out of MEM and CLE. AA seems in some ways to have become even more reliant upon JFK-LHR and the JFK transcontinental traffic than it used to be, so I don't see AA being able to pull a UA@JFK without marginalizing itself nationally and internationally unless and until some major financial disaster hits it in particular.

This is more akin to a situation of DL at MSP than of DL at MEM and UA at CLE, even as DL@MSP is largely about connecting traffic.

I couldn't see AA pulling out of LHR and SFO/LAX. Supposedly Parker originally questioned the worthiness of a 3 class plane on a domestic route but the numbers on those 2 routes changed his mind. At least that was reported years ago and it does make sense. I couldn't see AA staying with a 3 class narrow body if the routes aren't profitable. AA has decided to limit NYC mostly to O&D. Even just about all of LGA other than to other hubs are RJs (except I think BOS, MCO, PBI).

Time will tell if the strategy to move loads of JFK flying to PHL makes financial sense. Given how AA is in a distant 3rd to UA and DL it does question their strategy, and not just with NYC.

PBI is on an E175...

Regional jets can be a significant positive when the RJs are E175s with very easy upgrade chances or inexpensive first class. Sitting in empty first class cabins on these flights can be pretty pleasant. It's a big negative when they are E145 or similar planes.

At the end of the day it's still an RJ albeit for elites the upgrade potential is much greater and if it's under 500 miles it's all complimentary.

I didn't listen to the podcast, but I read the transcript on TPG's website.

Raja needs a communications coach. I wanted to put my head through my screen every time he repeatedly used "right". :rolleyes:

From that snippet of what I read he does corporate speak very well. Saying something without coming out and being clear about it. In this case we are narrowing NYC to be O&D and leveraging our other hubs for connections because of the perceived heavy competition in NYC. Instead he spoke in nonsensical circles.

Yep, MEM was the NW southern hub and great to connect through. ATL's geographic proximity post merger killed it.

Safe Travels

That's because UA also runs a large connecting hub at EWR. It is those connections, not just O&D, that allow UA to offer the frequency of flights and destinations that it does at EWR.

I found this article to be somewhat reassuring. I don't understand the hate re: connecting via LHR. NYC based it's great. I use it multiple times a year and it provides late departures from Europe to NYC that you can't easily get with other hubs. I can take afternoon departures from anywhere in Europe and connect to late flights LHR-JFK. I just wish BA would add more late night flights from LHR to the continent so that I could more easily use their 7:45am day flight to Europe without having to overnight in London.

(1) LHR security is a nightmare and (2) BA's CE (my connection to Europe) is sort of a joke.

Transiting LHR is a "dream" come true. If someone considers "nightmares" to be dreams in a world where LHR transits can be rather nightmarish compared to some other European transit options for US-Europe and Europe-US travel.

MSP (the entire airport) is majority O&D. In domestic O&D MSP is bigger than IAH or PHL - it's the 18th largest airport in the country. I don't see the value in making doomed-hub analogies.

JFK is the 2nd largest domestic O&D airport in the country and of course adds millions of international O&D passengers. AA's decision to compete very selectively at JFK (and across NYC broadly) is pretty surprising. One has to wonder how it sees itself fitting against UA/DL/B6 in this context.

Yeah. What UA and DL said about CLE and MEM is actually quite different than what AA says about NYC. They both said essentially that CLE/MEM serve unique connecting markets and act as relievers for their larger hubs with better O&D (ORD/IAD for UA, ATL for DL). That's not exactly a network function that can't be dropped; there was little that MEM or CLE brought to the table (ie O&D) that couldn't be moved elsewhere if it ever made more sense. AA has said that JFK is focused on premium O&D (which was mostly its role in the pmAA network, although pmAA didn't have PHL so JFK was a bit more important for connections). That's clearly not a great situation to be in -- you want both O&D and connections at a true hub to ensure the robust schedule that O&D traffic likes but can't support on its own in most cases -- but it doesn't seem like a kind of market that is likely to completely go away for AA. NYC can certainly support significant nonstops that aren't to AA hubs, and O&D is less subject to a death spiral effect than connecting traffic, especially for the D part of O&D.

Really, the only similarity between MEM/CLE and NYC is that in all three cases the airlines said positive things. Duh; you're not going to say "this hub is terrible and doomed" until you actually kill it.

In other words, EWR is able to serve in UA's network as both the JFK/LGA (NYC O&D) and PHL (European connections from much of the US) roles in AA's network. JFK can't do both well for AA (or really for DL, at least it doesn't serve European connections as well as EWR does for UA or PHL does for AA). That's a clear advantage for UA.

Isn't Jetblue mainly O&D at JFK? Is it just because they have a lower cost structure than AA that they can be so large?

Classy :td::td:

You must not fly through PHL very often.

JFK is even worse, especially for International to domestic connections. 1+ hour lines in immigration at 5am (I can't imagine the afternoon when many flights from Europe arrive). Then a long walk with vague signage to the AirTrain. I had a much better experience at PHL - not much of a wait in immigration at 2pm (when multiple Europe flights arrive) and no need to take a train to my domestic connection.

JFK also has rude employees

are you talking about JFK T8? Because I've found immigration in the afternoon to be fairly quick, even with multiple 777s arriving. The bags were a different story, but still not excessive. Maybe I've been lucky??

But I think you may be thinking of a T7 to T8 international to domestic connection, bc I have never needed to use the AirTrain to connect from an AA to AA flight.

I was on a DL to DL itinerary, T4 to T2 connection. Granted, connecting within the same terminal at JFK is quicker than changing terminals. My experience doing an international to domestic connection at JFK is just one data point, but I think it debunks some people's theories that connecting at JFK is always preferable to PHL. Definitely a YMMV situation.

You could have re-cleared security in T4 and then taken the jitney shuttle over to T2. Less walking, but T4 security was probably longer than T2.
Regardless, in most cases you should know whether or not you'll have to change terminals. Obviously AA-to-AA at JFK is pretty easy.

I don't fly through PHL that frequently since I'm NYC-based, but my few experiences at Customs and Immigration there have been much worse with much longer lines than I've ever seen at JFK T8.

I didn't think immigration opened until 6am at JFK. I've been held on the GRU JFK flight that arrived earlier than 6am every time. We were able to de-plane at 6am.

Global Entry will fix that. Even during rush hour at ORD I am through in less then 2 minutes.

ORD... Only if customs hall is not at capacity. I have been held in the hallways and they refused to let people into the central immigration hall due to overcrowding. That is despite having global entry.

In my situation about 15 intl flights arrived within thirty minutes.

I have Global Entry. By far the longest Global Entry line I've ever seen was in PHL.

Every time I've flown through PHL I am in and out of Immigration and Customs in less than 5 minutes so I can't say I've shared your experience. My least pleasant experiences have been at MIA.

If 15 int'l flights arrived into a 21 gate terminal within 30 minutes of each other there must have been some very unusual operating conditions at ORD that day.

We arrived at around 1:45pm-ish. QR, KL, AZ, CX, UA (multiple), AA (multiple), BA, LH, OS, HU, and several others have flights arriving between 1-2pm.

In my case I was on the CX flight.

LGA & first time at D9F......where does this plane actually depart from? Bus to Remote stand?

Yup it's a bus gate - like 35X at DCA but even more makeshift...

Wonderful.......why does AA love gates via buses? UGH :/

I've had the unfortunate luck with needing these D9X gates recently ... I would call it worse than 35X.

Though, the new A gate part of the terminal is definitely much nicer than anywhere else in LGA. I've only been on AA flights to Canada from there, not sure what else tends to be based on that side.

35X was designed like that and just got out of control over the years... D9X is at least a temporary fix / was only added within the last year or two to accommodate construction. Both should be going away in ~2021 (still a long way off).

Don't go to Europe...

A little love for NYC:

https://onemileatatime.com/new-ameri...latin-america/

Used to love all those JFK to Caribbean flights ...can't believe they weren't profitable,

Does an E175 have the range to go from JFK to the Caribbean?

Now if only we could get San Juan back.

Additional DFW-SJU is nice... but the return flight... whoa. 2:30am departure and 6am landing. Brutal.