Originally Posted by Adelphos (Post 30008486)

AA is saying that the transcon business is stronger "in LA more than the East Coast markets" and that there isn't demand for widebodies in "Kennedy-Seattle" according to Vasu Raja, via Gary Leff:

https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea...centers-on-la/

Seems like a recipe for further de-emphasizing JFK in general, further cuts to JFK-SFO and no lie-flat expansion out of JFK (or BOS or PHL for that matter).

Originally Posted by nrr (Post 30003051)

...
On a side note, their email was TIMESTAMPED on Sunday, 7/22/18 at 10:20 PM (EDT)...AA CR must work interesting hours.:)

Originally Posted by Adelphos (Post 30008486)

AA is saying that the transcon business is stronger "in LA more than the East Coast markets" and that there isn't demand for widebodies in "Kennedy-Seattle" according to Vasu Raja, via Gary Leff:

https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea...centers-on-la/

Seems like a recipe for further de-emphasizing JFK in general, further cuts to JFK-SFO and no lie-flat expansion out of JFK (or BOS or PHL for that matter).

Originally Posted by ashill (Post 30002602)

AA management has been accused of not always making the best decisions, but I'm pretty sure that they knew when they left JFK-ZRH that DL and LX fly the route and that AA would lose a large fraction of their business and revenue on that route to those two when they abandoned the nonstop.

Did they say they lose revenue or they lose money? Because if they lose revenue (ie their revenue on the route is negative), that's truly impressive. However, I can certainly believe that their costs exceed their revenue. It's not difficult to imagine DL and/or LX making a profit when AA doesn't on a particular route. For example, DL can offer a good many more connections at the JFK end, in part because they don't have a hub 120 miles away that can probably serve every connection that would be possible over JFK just as efficiently (from AA's point of view; I recognize that a small number of passengers [most of whom are probably on FlyerTalk] might prefer JFK over PHL as a connecting airport, but I would bet the number of passengers who will choose a flight based on that difference is pretty small. In fact, I'd bet there's a larger number of people who will avoid JFK and its chronic delays than who will avoid PHL and it's slightly-less-chronic delays).

DL also could easily have a different mix of corporate contracts, frequent flyers, operational costs, etc at both the NYC and ZRH end. (It really could be different in a way that favors this route rather than larger overall.)

And DL could be losing just as much money as AA but be more willing to stick it out for whatever reason. The revenue picture is likely to improve for DL and LX with AA gone, just as it would have improved for AA and LX if DL had left.

There are just all sorts of ways that DL and LX could be doing better on this particular route than AA even without AA management doing a poor job. At the end of the day, AA just isn't as strong in NYC as DL. This all, of course, has been hashed out at great length in this thread.

Originally Posted by AANYC1981 (Post 30019011)

I was at JFK a couple of days ago and got a real chuckle. I don't know if it was an AA employee van or some other AA van, but it was all branded on the outside and said something like from NYC you can go anywhere in the world. I'm forgetting the actual wording but that was the gist......I guess they must mean if you want to not fly on AA proper.

Originally Posted by AANYC1981 (Post 30019011)

I was at JFK a couple of days ago and got a real chuckle. I don't know if it was an AA employee van or some other AA van, but it was all branded on the outside and said something like from NYC you can go anywhere in the world. I'm forgetting the actual wording but that was the gist......I guess they must mean if you want to not fly on AA proper.

Originally Posted by ElCaminoReal (Post 30019062)

Sure it didn't say "via LHR or LAX"?

Originally Posted by AANYC1981 (Post 30018996)

AA lost a major corporate (maybe more?) contract to DL on this route because it's employees were sick of flying the ancient and often delayed/MX 763 on AA. That's one of the main reasons they left the market.

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Originally Posted by only1percent (Post 30050234)

I loved that JFK-DEN flight, and have taken it numerous times, but upgraded at 100 hours every time flew solo, never missed a companion upgrade when traveling with someone, and usually had at least 3-4 first class seats empty ... in other words, polar opposite of every other 3+ hour flight out of JFK or LGA in recent years.

Originally Posted by AANYC1981 (Post 30111670)

I've now read twice from credible sources that AA will be experimenting with routes from JFK moving forward........hmmmmmmm. If they can't make ZRH/EDI/DUB work, how will new random routes ex-JFK do any better?

Originally Posted by andersonCooper (Post 30111755)

I am guessing they re-focus their targets on proven leisure destinations (CDG, MXP for instance) instead of business travelers, but ignore the fact that business travelers travel for leisure as well...

Originally Posted by cedric (Post 30112481)

That goes against what was mentioned in the video accompanying today's press release. JFK was briefly mentioned and AA's goal is to focus on business markets from JFK.

Originally Posted by Adelphos (Post 30110811)

AA cuts DUB and EDI from JFK (also cut PAP).

Originally Posted by cedric (Post 30112481)

That goes against what was mentioned in the video accompanying today's press release. JFK was briefly mentioned and AA's goal is to focus on business markets from JFK.

Originally Posted by andersonCooper (Post 30112708)

I can't buy too much in that statement since they pulled ZRH, FRA and now DUB out. Business market to LAX/SFO maybe.

Originally Posted by Fanjet (Post 30113887)

They were not serving JFK-FRA. And if the soon-to-be-axed seasonal PHL-FRA route was such a business route, it would not have been made a seasonal route a couple of years ago.

Originally Posted by Fanjet (Post 30113887)

They were not serving JFK-FRA. And if the soon-to-be-axed seasonal PHL-FRA route was such a business route, it would not have been made a seasonal route a couple of years ago.

Originally Posted by jasondc (Post 30114863)

The point is, for the most part, flights to German business centers such as FRA and MUC are HIGHLY dependent on the German corporate point of sale. AA cannot touch it - they all go to LH and UA. There's a reason UA does well in FRA and MUC and the others have far less success. It's their relationship with Lufthansa. Germans are very brand loyal, and that's it.

Originally Posted by Austin787 (Post 30115145)

Delta makes its Germany routes work.

Originally Posted by Austin787 (Post 30115145)

Delta makes its Germany routes work.

Originally Posted by FlyerWx (Post 30115635)

Its also worth noting that Delta had a hub in FRA (that it acquired from PanAm) in the early 1990s.

I don't think it's the main reason though. It may have contributed to their relative success.

Originally Posted by newyorkgeorge (Post 30116078)

What JFK routes will now be left in the Caribbean? Maybe just STT? Seems like domestic from JFK will be LAX, SFO, MIA with a once a day to/from SAN, SEA and LAS, token 1 or 2 a day to CLT, DFW, ORD and whatever remains of Eagle.

Originally Posted by Adelphos (Post 30116159)

I think they are increasing their frequencies to DFW to 4 a day.

Originally Posted by jordyn (Post 30113229)

Well they just cut service to Frankfurt and added it to Dubrovnik, is the goal that Philly is supposed to focus on leisure markets by cutting business routes and not replacing them anywhere?

As for JFK, killing the ZRH route is not a great example of attempting to focus on business markets.

Seems very hard to work out any sort of strategy here. Clearly they want to focus trans-Atlantic flying through Philly, but route selection remains a mystery and I have no idea how they think they're going to maintain any sort of foothold on the NYC market by hacking away at the route network. Maybe they should just sell the JFK slots to United--I hear that they figured out leaving was a bad idea despite the strong presence at EWR.

Originally Posted by jordyn (Post 30116215)

I totally don't understand these. Is AA's target market here people from southern Queens and Long Island who have business in Dallas? Most people from the New York Metro area are going to prefer the plentiful LGA flights. Putting flights to a hub within the LGA perimeter at DFW seems like a huge waste of a JFK slot.

Originally Posted by Adelphos (Post 30116268)

- Need to keep JFK slots active with some kind of flights
- Flagship lounge as a selling point for JFK to DFW to international passengers

Originally Posted by Adelphos (Post 30116268)

- Need to keep JFK slots active with some kind of flights
- Flagship lounge as a selling point for JFK to DFW to international passengers

Originally Posted by Austin787 (Post 30115145)

Delta makes its Germany routes work.

Originally Posted by andersonCooper (Post 30111755)

I am guessing they re-focus their targets on proven leisure destinations (CDG, MXP for instance) instead of business travelers, but ignore the fact that business travelers travel for leisure as well...