Originally Posted by moondog
(Post 28200323)
The rules are extremely well defined and are bear bones simple, so there is little if any room for "interpretation".
One formula is sufficient modulus some constraints on the period between inbound and outbound: inbound_segment.origin != outbound_segment.destination ==> visa_free=true. inbound_segment: the initial flight segment into China outbound_segment: the next flight segment out of China that you'll be taking. I like this way of interpreting the word transit. It's simple enough for easy formalization. I don't see why this logic couldn't be introduced into TIMATIC :) |
Originally Posted by sbm12
(Post 28200276)
The theory that it is okay for AA to enforce rules that are not compliant with the immigration policies of the destination is ludicrous. Why would it be acceptable for AA to declare that I need 3 years validity remaining on my US passport for a trip to Paris? That's essentially the same thing as this ruling.
Whether AA is correctly interpreting China's requirements is a separate question, as is whether this behavior is acceptable. From what I can tell, no knowledgeable person agrees with AA's interpretation in this case. There are many recommendations that one renew a passport early or get a visa in order to travel to certain countries, even when not required, in order to avoid this sort of nonsense. |
Originally Posted by richarddd
(Post 28200513)
I believe Jon is pointing out that AA views its actions as acceptable and that there is a risk that AA will continue with this interpretation. Travelers that want to make sure they are safe can get a visa or perhaps a refundable ticket to another country.
Whether AA is correctly interpreting China's requirements is a separate question, as is whether this behavior is acceptable. From what I can tell, no knowledgeable person agrees with AA's interpretation in this case. I can virtually *guarantee* that there will continue to be this issue-- be it very rare, occasionally, etc for the foreseeable future. |
Originally Posted by JonNYC
(Post 28200545)
Completely correct, thank you for referencing/including the context of my remarks.
I can virtually *guarantee* that there will continue to be this issue-- be it very rare, occasionally, etc for the foreseeable future. |
Originally Posted by anacapamalibu
(Post 28200642)
This issue could have easily been rectified. Reimburse passenger for mistake.
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Originally Posted by JonNYC
(Post 28200545)
I can virtually *guarantee* that there will continue to be this issue-- be it very rare, occasionally, etc for the foreseeable future. We've seen many cases of this nature in the TWOV thread, and OPs reliably go dark shortly after bringing the airlines to task.:( |
Originally Posted by moondog
(Post 28200694)
Sadly, I agree with you on this point. If history is any indicator of the future, AA is likely to make the OP whole, but on the condition that he executes an NDA. This is presumably cheaper for them than investing in training.
We've seen many cases of this nature in the TWOV thread, and OPs reliably go dark shortly after bringing the airlines to task.:( |
Originally Posted by FlyingJay
(Post 28193516)
They both accused me of trying to "abuse" the system to avoid a Chinese Visa.
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Originally Posted by moondog
(Post 28200694)
We've seen many cases of this nature in the TWOV thread, and OPs reliably go dark shortly after bringing the airlines to task.:(
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Originally Posted by JonNYC
(Post 28200709)
I'd personally be very surprised if any NDA was required-- has anyone historically claimed that? They don't even do that in agreements made with AA corp security, so, as sensible as it may seem, is that something that's been posited before specifically regarding AA?
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...ade-space.html |
Originally Posted by moondog
(Post 28201148)
Here's one example (that I found via Google, btw):
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...ade-space.html http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/28200694-post156.html |
Originally Posted by JonNYC
(Post 28201205)
That was a very, very different and highly unique situation-- nothing whatsoever to do with this subject, obviously-- there was actual DOT involvement-- huge difference from a routine compensation arrangement with AA CR (or even a routine AA corp security resolution.) No NDAs.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/28200694-post156.html |
Originally Posted by moondog
(Post 28201338)
There's no need for you to remind me of a post I made less than 2 hours ago.:D I am not inclined to discuss specific NDA situations I'm aware of because my doing so would demonstrate that silence was broken by the recipients. So, instead, I resorted to Google. While fake bookings and employee negligence are different subjects, I'm not sure how you could conclude either is more or less NDA worthy.
Ask around :) |
AA made a big mistake here. 100% to blame. If AA can't operate without understanding TWOV (or better said, have it's staff understand it) then China should revoke them flight rights.
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Originally Posted by YuropFlyer
(Post 28201541)
AA made a big mistake here. 100% to blame. If AA can't operate without understanding TWOV (or better said, have it's staff understand it) then China should revoke them flight rights.
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