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-   -   144 TWOV China- AA Issues/Questions (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-airlines-aadvantage/1837368-144-twov-china-aa-issues-questions.html)

ORD2NRT Apr 17, 17 11:18 pm


Originally Posted by rjw242 (Post 28193948)
I'm not saying that the airline has to accept it, only that such written communications aren't thrown around willy-nilly. "Front line embassy staff" are fully empowered diplomatic officials, not low-level customer service reps.

Conversely, the OP could have a signed letter from the Premier of China himself and AA staff wouldn't be required to allow him to board (nor would they have the capacity to verify it in the first place).

They're diplomats but there is a power structure. You can be a diplomat and still be pushing paperwork and cutting your teeth. Not mention many embassies employ non-diplomatic staff for many clerical activities like filing paper work and .... replying to communications. :p

As for your second part - you're correct. Which is why at the end of the day the email doesn't matter at all. So you're just circling back to my initial point - the email is just an email.

Dave Noble Apr 17, 17 11:19 pm


Originally Posted by FlyingJay (Post 28193949)
So 144 hours in China is transit and 16 or so hours in NRT is destination? How many hours would qualify for destination in your eyes?

24 hours

A transit is a stop of < 24 hours and a stopover is anything longer

On paper tickets this would have been shown as an X for transit rather than O for stopover/destination

From IATA tariff definitions

Stopover "When a passenger arrives at an intermediate point and is scheduled to depart later than 24 hours after arrival (local time).

The stop at the destination in China was not a transit, but the ticketed destination

Even where continuing on to a 3rd country, a stop of > 24 hours in China is a stopover as far as ticketing goes, just that China chooses to call the waiver a transit

FlyingJay Apr 17, 17 11:19 pm

Does anybody have a direct email contact I can reach out to at AA for assistance? I have submitted via the contact link on website.

rjw242 Apr 17, 17 11:21 pm


Originally Posted by ORD2NRT (Post 28193953)
You should ask China to clarify their policy. Until they do we're all just tilting at windmills. ;)

That more or less sums it up.

For the time being, China's policy may or may not have a loophole. AA's agents are inconsistent in allowing passengers to use this loophole that may or may not exist. If not, you may have to change your ticket or be denied boarding, and AA may or may not compensate you if this happens. It's the very definition of buyer beware, at this point. :)

But best of luck to the OP getting a refund, seriously.

FWAAA Apr 17, 17 11:21 pm


Originally Posted by Dave Noble (Post 28193965)
24 hours

A transit is a stop of < 24 hours and a stopover is anything longer

On paper tickets this would have been shown as an X for transit rather than O for stopover/destination

That's at odds with China's definitions of "transit" which include periods of 24 hours, 72 hours or 144 hours, as applicable.

nutwpinut Apr 17, 17 11:21 pm


Originally Posted by ORD2NRT (Post 28193953)
You should ask China to clarify their policy. Until they do we're all just tilting at windmills. ;)

Isn't that one of the functions of an embassy? Isn't an embassy an agent of the government within a foreign country to answer such questions?

ORD2NRT Apr 17, 17 11:22 pm


Originally Posted by JonNYC (Post 28193960)
But would it not be the case that as long as NRT was an actual stop on the return ticket, rather than a transit, that the length of said stop would probably be of no relevance?

If you clear immigration at NRT and have a quick meeting, sleep for 5 hours, then take the next flight back to the US - that fits both practice and policy as I tried to outline before.

But that's all related to the vagueness of the current policy.

FlyingJay Apr 17, 17 11:24 pm


Originally Posted by rjw242 (Post 28193971)
That more or less sums it up.

For the time being, China's policy may or may not have a loophole. AA's agents are inconsistent in allowing passengers to use this loophole that may or may not exist. If not, you may have to change your ticket or be denied boarding, and AA may or may not compensate you if this happens. It's the very definition of buyer beware, at this point. :)

But best of luck to the OP getting a refund, seriously.

Thank You!

Dave Noble Apr 17, 17 11:24 pm


Originally Posted by FWAAA (Post 28193972)
That's at odds with China's definitions of "transit" which include periods of 24 hours, 72 hours or 144 hours, as applicable.

No - it is simply at odd with the name given to the waiver

ORD2NRT Apr 17, 17 11:26 pm


Originally Posted by nutwpinut (Post 28193974)
Isn't that one of the functions of an embassy? Isn't an embassy an agent of the government within a foreign country to answer such questions?

Definitely, and they definitely answered the question. The question is really whether they answered it correctly and even further, if they did answer it correctly, whether it matters considering the logistics of how the policy is worded and enforced.

rjw242 Apr 17, 17 11:29 pm


Originally Posted by ORD2NRT (Post 28193986)
Definitely, and they definitely answered the question. The question is really whether they answered it correctly and even further, if they did answer it correctly, whether it matters considering the logistics of how the policy is worded and enforced.

Again - confirmation in writing from an Embassy official would almost certainly be sufficient to allow the OP entry into China if there were any dispute. AA doesn't have to accept this as evidence, however.

ORD2NRT Apr 17, 17 11:31 pm


Originally Posted by rjw242 (Post 28193996)
Again - confirmation in writing from an Embassy official would almost certainly be sufficient to allow the OP entry into China if there were any dispute. AA doesn't have to accept this as evidence, however.

Nothing I said in your quoted portion conflicts with what you said here. ;)

Antipode Apr 17, 17 11:33 pm


Originally Posted by Dave Noble (Post 28193983)
No - it is simply at odd with the name given to the waiver

Or governments and airlines can have different definitions of the same word.

Antarius Apr 17, 17 11:58 pm


Originally Posted by deskover54 (Post 28193884)
Also agree, want to see how it works out...however, why not just get a Chinese Visa. It's so simple. And its what like $150 for 10 years? Seems like a tiny investment.

This.

Antarius Apr 17, 17 11:59 pm


Originally Posted by FlyingJay (Post 28193967)
Does anybody have a direct email contact I can reach out to at AA for assistance? I have submitted via the contact link on website.

Thats the best way to get in touch. Please do let us know how it shapes out.

Good Luck.


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