I guess it's not all doom and gloom for me as I thought......

Im not exactly a cheap Charlie EXP. Although I follow the mileage run threads and buy deep discount y fares to meet the minimum eqm, I now find myself not waiting for a stellar deal to be announced and just buy a y fare when available. The 4 swus hurt, but with the miles + copay to upgrade to j, I guess I'm still quite content with AA.

I was actually lurking over at the UA forums and the grass is still greener here. One important reason why I am staying with AA is because of Oneworld. I can't stand to not have access to those CX F lounges at HKG :)

Lets think about this NOW. This is a super-mega-ultra LOSS-to-LOSS situation for those international Y flyers:

1) Your are getting a ton of less RDM. That's a huge low-blow. Well, maybe you were thinking "ok,,,less RDM but at least the award chart will be intact". hahahahaha. now lets go to point #2 below.

2) Notwithstanding with the above (receiving a ton of less RDM), now it's harder to redeem them, because it requires more RDM to get a reward. Do you follow me? Less RDM + more required RDM to redeem!!!! hhahahahaha ..nasty huh?? It hurts like a Tito Trinidad left hook. Now lets go to point #3 below.

3) For example, Europe off-peak saaver availability was reduced for about 4 months. In other words, 4 months ELIMINATED for off-peak saaver. Pre-devaluation off-peak season for Europe was from October to April (6 delicious months!!!).
Now, post-devaluation: off-peak season for Europe is from November 1 to December 14 (6 weeks); then from January 10 to March 14 (8 weeks).

Off-peak saaver pre-devaluation: 6 entire months
Off-peak saver post-devaluation: 3 months & 2 weeks.

An almost 50% reduction in availability for off-peak saaver.

Ladies and gentlement: welcome to DisAadvantage and God bless those screwed international "Y" coach flyers!!!

That $3,000 minimum spend for silver (25K) at UA is the revenue component for the tickets you fly and accrue miles on, not for those you purchase for others. If it was as easy as putting others flights on a credit card, there'd be a lot more 1Ks over there that need a $12,000 spend.

That's it. You see quite a few business travelers on the UA forum that fly the 100,000 miles for 1K but can't meet the $12,000 spend. Same with other tiers with lower revenue components. Not every business traveler can fly on higher priced fares. Not having a revenue component is something that makes AA different than UA and DL. I still have a shot at EXP at AA. I'd never have a shot based on spend at UA.

That doesn't change the fact that it's blatantly not an upgrade in terms of UDU/CPU whatever. UA Silvers get E+ at 24 hours (if available) just as AA Golds get MCE at 24 hours.

It doesn't belong in a conversation about upgrades to domestic F.

Anyhow, back somewhat on topic: Did the 2 Y to F CPUs you got as a UA silver outnumber the sticker upgrades you got as an AA gold?

The award chart devaluations and the different earning from partners makes these changes worst than expected. Might as well go back to UA, with LT 1K and LT Club, and stop worrying about AA EXP (have LT AA Gold if I have to fly AA).

But for this year 2016, I expect to have EXP by mid year. So I will continue with AA through the end of 2016 and see what my upgrade % is. If upgrades were to drop significantly, then I might as well fly UA with low upgrades. At least, UA has more E+ seats.

So if upgrade rate drops then back to UA for me. Since I don't have to worry about achieving UA status (with LT 1K), then I can stop doing mileage runs on AA, and spend the extra money on higher priced UA tickets or UA discount F tickets. So spend the same, just do less mileage runs and not worry about AA EQM.

UA - you likely have me back.

and now there are no decent FF programs. Good thing we let all of the airlines merge so they could do this with no backlash or competition!

I've never tried to use my stickers yet. I had a decent upgrade percentage to F on US Air back when it was free and I was a lowly Silver out of DCA (I want to say about 50%). I haven't flown under 500 miles on AA since the new program went into affect.

I'll try to use my stickers on ORD-MEX and then MEX-DFW-DCA in Feb. I'm hoping the ORD-MEX clears but doubt the others will.

Oh well. I'm likely stuck with AA for 2016 due to their dominance at DCA and that it flies to where I want to go at a reasonable price (although prices are going up). I'll just get a fewer benefits. So much for loyalty.

Sigh... Thankfully I have my first (and maybe only) CX F trip already booked for next year but now will have a ticking clock to redeem one last award to maybe try JAL F.

The devaluation we all knew was coming...

And I was 1K on UA for a good while, and I was #6 at the gate on a CR7 DEN-DFW (hardly a longer, hubs at both end route like EWR-SFO which commonly has 50+ names on the upgrade list), with more than half the plane on the upgrade list. IAD-ATL is probably easy to clear (same with IAD-BTV), but if you're flying ORD or further west nonstop, forget about it...

More to Life Than RDMs folks
 

As one of the those "international 'Y' coach flyers", who will be EXP in three weeks: this is a rather narrow-minded view of the benefits of a FFP.

I'm far more bothered by the cuts to SWUs (which were worse than expected), and the 0.5 EQM earnings on partner flights, than I am by the RDM cuts.

Bingo. /end Thread, IMO. ^

So, you rest my case. Those "screwed international Y coach flyers" have a loss-to-loss situation. Its time to kayaking. This new 2016 disaadvantage program is not for the international coach flyer looking for low cost fares and great rewards. Those times are officially over for this niche consumer. By kayaking, the international Y flyers may be in a better position.

Goodbye American. You were my preferred airline for giving miles based on distance flown, but now that you're just like Delta, I might as well fly Delta given their superior operational record or with Boston as a home airport go with JetBlue for the complimentary in-flight internet and superior legroom in economy.

I guess if flying AA, too, you might as well credit miles to Alaska?

As someone that flies weekly in the USA only these changes do not seem to bad, at about 18K in airfare I still get almost 200K in RDM. The one thing that hurts is the SWU's I was hoping that the extras would be on some combo of segments/EQM etc. Most of my round trips are 2-4K with 4 segments so I won't come close to 150EQM. I just need to be more careful when using SWU's I guess.

Credit card cash back isn't taxable when the underlying charges are personal (non-business) expenses, but that cash IS taxable if the charges were for deductible (and deducted) business expenses.

If an employer then reimburses you 100% of those charges, that cash back from the card is taxable. Or if you're self-employed and deduct the gross amount of the expenses, the cash back is taxable.

Sorry about this, but Faulty Premise Alert.

What do you mean by "soon to be AA?" AA is making record profits even before slashing and burning AAdvantage

In 2013, pre-merger AA's profits were just slightly less than UA's profits (in both cases, excluding special items). In 2014, post-merger AA's profits were substantially larger than UA's profits. For the first three quarters of 2015, AA's profits are larger than UA's profits and just slightly behind DL's record profits.

Given that AA became profitable during its Ch 11 proceeding and has produced record profits even larger than UA's record profits and almost as large as DL's profits, that casts some doubt on any correlation between changes to the frequent flyer plan and profits.

If DL and UA were reporting record profits but AA was still reporting losses or mediocre profits, then there might possibly be a correlation. But since AA has reported larger aggregate profits than UA in the 2012-2015 period, and profits similar to DL during 2014-2015, it's unlikely that there's a correlation.

AA became profitable in 2013 due to more efficient pilot and FA contracts (the primary reason it filed for Ch 11 in 2011) and industry consolidation that lessened competition. AA's 2013 profits (and its 2014 and 2015 profits) had no connection to frequent flyer plan cuts simply because the cuts announced by AA today came long after AA turned the corner from massive losses to huge profits.

The huge industry profits did not flow because of frequent flyer plan cuts, but they certainly give airlines confidence that generous frequent flyer plans aren't essential to success. After all, DL and UA both cut their frequent flyer plan benefits after they became profitable and both have remained profitable after those cuts.

Exactly. ^

While it's true that AA describes it as a loyalty program, frequent flyer programs are and always have been marketing programs. For sure, they're marketing programs that make the experience better for some customers and can be used by savvy customers to get excellent value out of tickets and other spending well beyond the nominal cost of the transaction.

But fundamentally, AA is a business and most of the time treats its customers as a business should: well enough to maximize their profits, according to their reading of the competition and their experience with consumer behavior. Sometimes, that means treating some customers very well even at cost to AA. Often, that means treating everyone decently when the cost to AA is reasonably small or zero. Sometimes, that means treating customers not very well because, at the end of the day, those customers are motivated by price, not how they're treated.

"Loyalty" in this context is nothing but marketing drivel describing a rewards program. Those who say that AA somehow owes them something because of their 26 years of loyalty or that it's our responsibility as "loyal" customers of a giant corporation to help out said corporation when it's in trouble and that, in return, that that corporation will be loyal back are, in my humble opinion, delusional.

Now, AA has read the competition carefully and differentiated their elite status program just enough so that, for me, it probably remains good enough to keep my business as a sort-of-hub-captive (although the 0.5 EQM earning on AS will make me crunch some numbers). But I make my calculations fully aware AA has no true "loyalty" to me, and I have no true "loyalty" to them.

Except it's not just like Delta. No spend requirement on AA. Delta is much more difficult to get an upgrade on. (Esp out of a hub city).

(and, this is just my personal experience, better customer service on AA)

Um, wow, way to completely mis-characterize my post.

I am not an "international coach flyer looking for low cost fares and great rewards" (not that there is anything wrong with that). I'm someone travelling for work purposes, under a travel policy that requires lowest fare coach in most circumstances, but allows me to stay with a preferred airline.

Many elements of the FFP are more important to me than RDMs. And at AA I can still qualify for the top tier, unlike elsewhere.

Some of this thread is getting pretty hysterical.

That's partly as DL is running some VERY cheap paid F fares to/from many markets. AUS-nearly any major USA city has been <$550 round trip recently, lots under $475 to either coast. I'm cutting back on travel, and paying for F when I really want to go somewhere, or working to get routes that I know don't have high Y loads as a general rule (gleaned from years and years of experience).

Absolutely agree. Flying today is about what's best for you, the passenger and that makes me a free agent when it comes to selecting my flights.

Oh no .. They significantly increased J redemption from Asia 2 to North America.

First Starwood gets bought out by crap now this devaluation ...

Amen...

I just booked my first flight for 2016, and I made sure to book in a premium cabin. AA wins. EXP here I come.

I became an EXP in April '15 via the challenge match program. I am disappointed these changes will reduce my mileage take per flight, but at least I will be able to retain my EXP status whereas on UA, I never stood a chance to stay 1K. I miss UA - primarily *A award availability as compared to One World, but even with these changes, I'm not going back.

Totally agree, but that seems to be FT style these days.

And if you really want to see hysterical, check out this thread:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/starw...on-thread.html

The Starwood folks are losing their ever loving minds; much gnashing of teeth and tearing of clothes.

Regards

Got my answer, AA Footnotes say yes;)

More excellent news for you high spenders, maximum RDMs are capped at 75k miles per trip, but this is for your own protection, so you don't do crazy stuff like paying more than $7k for a ticket...:D

I made EXP this year and am currently going for DL status through an employer program, and I have to say while I'm disappointed with some of the award devaluations, I'm pretty happy with the no revenue requirement. And while for cheap long-haul there's some serious loss in earnings, as an EXP doing mainly mid-cost, medium haul flights I'm now coming out ahead. All about perception.

+1 to a lot of the things said about DL and the benefits there. I was on a flight out of MSP yesterday morning, and Sky Priority was easily 40 or 50 people on an A320. There were 75 people on the upgrade list. AA runs a fairly balanced program.

I agree with you - I've never laboured under a misconception that the airline owes me any loyalty. But the AAdvantage program has, in my case, delivered for AA as it was intended - I don't fly other airlines because that would imperil my continued qualification as a top-tier elite at AA, and I've heard how lousy it can be to fly as a nobody in economy seats on other airlines. When I need to fly somewhere, I don't waste time shopping other airlines in hopes of saving some nickels - I just go to aa.com and find a fare I can live with.

The benefits to me of my loyalty to AA are numerous and will no doubt be reduced in the future, but so far, a very high rate of upgrades and success at finding premium cabin award tickets has kept me loyal.

Let's see, 11 pts/dollar on AA as a top-tier elite, or fly WN as a top-tier at 12-36 pts/dollar (24-72 w/ CP)? Easy choice.

Norwegian or Wowair can get me to another continent for cheap, who needs international redemptions?

1. For four eVIPs, you can only hold on to the upgrade to J for up to maximum 40k EQMs(assuming cheap Y fares purchased). For the rest of EXP re-qualification, 60k, you are on your own.


It's official for me to:

1. Book J right out to fly CX, or QR instead of gunning for HKG-DFW and hoping to upgrade.
2. Getting partner J will remain exactly the same qualification as before - 1.5 EQPs. For those who complain about the partner earning not matching the AA J earning, can you get a great hard+soft product on AA premium? We all know the answer is no, so it's a tradeoff. Flying partner J will still get us LT miles, so I am ok with that.
3. Only two RTs of DFW-HKG every year. Not even entertaining to get up to 200k for eight eVIPs, unless AA is disclosing a way to get to LT EXP.
4. burn AA miles for partner F flights.

Can't believe I am flying AA less. It's time for everybody to just start kayaking. I am too, just in a sense of kayaking for J right out of the box.

JohnNYC, do you know whether partner premium cabin will just get us class of service bonus along with base miles, and that's it? Will there be something like what Delta has been doing for KL/AF(100% bonus for top elite, 80% for PLT)...I hope there will still be elite bonus for the partner premium flights.

Big advantage to being Platinum: I keep getting more RDMs for spend all the way up to $9375 for a ticket!

But seriously, I don't get this rule. If you do go above the RDM cap on a ticket, you can get around it by buying the round trip on two tickets. (I don't think there are any one way fares that are that pricey, and I don't think any fares that pricey have round trip requirements.)

There is something called "good will" however. While everyone and their grandma knows that AA is a business to make a profit, it is a service-oriented company.



I'll be sticking with AA until I hit LTPL then I can sort of "pick and choose" which carrier suits me the most. For now, its still AA actually.

Are WN points worth about as much as AA miles (ie 1-2c/mile for domestic coach redemptions, which is of course the only fair comparison)? That's an honest question; I have no idea.

Been anxious since getting the email to arrive home and read all of the reaction here. My main concern was the award chat to Europe, so can't I can't be too upset myself. Even so, I feel for those who travel habits will now result in far fewer miles for more dear AAward tickets. The next mega merger that benefits anyone but people holding stock in the acquired company will be the first.

I think the unintended and sad consequences are that some EXPs will just fly less now on AA, as it will be easier to make EXP and not enough rewarding to go over 100k miles. Plus fewer SWUs to support Y flying.

Bummer. I saved up miles and had 50k all ready for Biz Class to Europe next summer. Now it's 57,500. Off to spend more on my AA cc I guess :(

Maybe I should transfer some Starwood points... those are likely set to devalue anyway. Getting it from everywhere these days.

We run a random test the other day, this is not true, one way premium fares were about the same or even more expensive than a roundtrip even at the $7-10k pricing range.

Here's the survey question I had posted 11 or so days ago on whether people will change their flying pattern (i.e. go lower status, not care for the status or switch to DAL/UA/JBLU, et.) because of recent changes:

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/RQBN72X

99 responses so far:

• 50 would move to a lower status on AA/switch loyalty or don't care
• 34 would stick with AA at current status
• 15 are not sure

To be sure, there have been no responses in at least two days.