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Originally Posted by Phasers
(Post 25729946)
Not that it matters, but here is the letter I wrote to AA Customer Relations. As I've said before, these changes would make me reevaluate my flying habits, and they have. Thank you for the memories AA, I wish your loyalty to me had been as strong as my loyalty to you.
Letter: Hello, I am emailing you concerning the changes announced today to the AAdvantage program. As a multi-year executive platinum member, I have frequently gone out of my way to fly American Airlines, including paying hundreds to thousands of dollars more for a fare to stay on AA flights. For 2015, I believe that AAdvantage was the best frequent flyer program, bar none. Sadly, in 2016 AAdvantage has decided to make changes which will make it among the worst, if not the worst program in the industry. From gutting award miles earning and upgrades to devaluing the award chart, AA has made many changes which negatively impact their customers. As a result of these changes, I can no longer be loyal to AA as I have been since 1989. I will no longer go out of my way to purchase more expensive tickets simply because they are on AA, and I will no longer travel as much as I do now, purposefully taking extra trips so I can fly AA. Again, I am writing you to let you know that this is a direct result of the changes announced today and that I am disappointed in the manner in which American Airlines has chosen to treat its loyal customers, as this loyalty was clearly very one sided. I've had many great times on AA, and will always have the memories. For that I thank you. Regards, Phasers Letter I wrote to AA: <entirety redacted> Regards, Everyone.:p |
I have hit PLAT the last 8 years on mostly personal travel, I have lifetime Gold.
The RDM changes flat out suck, that was one reason I made an effort to hit PLAT, the double RDM miles. So when flying somewhere with family, I could pay for my flight and use miles for everyone else. That is pretty much shot now. I live near DFW airport and getting to Love Field is a royal pain for me, so realistically, I am stuck with AA .. I wish Virgin still flew out of DFW. I'll look into AS though, that seems the only other realistic option, but I need to check to see if there is a minimum # of flights that need to be on AS metal, as I would rarely do that. If I am stuck with AA, I really question the value of trying for PLAT every year versus just being Gold. Beyond upgrades and a slight discount on the AC (which actually has improved over the past several years IMO), I really do not see much upside anymore for me. |
Originally Posted by badjuju
(Post 25730500)
Letter I wrote to AA:
<redacted> Regards, Everyone.:p |
Originally Posted by Phasers
(Post 25730490)
I kept flying AA, even with no status at times. Also, it's not my responsibility to ensure their profitability.
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Originally Posted by Phasers
(Post 25730327)
You again. Ok I'll bite.
I have purchased a ticker on a carrier I have no status on. So let's review.
Many of these issues could be solved with simply getting the cobranded credit card. * But do you get lounge access on international trips? * But was there space for your carry on when you boarded in group 4 or 5? * But did you have to fly in a middle seat? * But did you have to stand in line at check in or security (no PreCheck, and OLCI not always available/working, at international stations)? * etc. Over the 60 to 80 segments I fly in a year, these things matter. The ancillary costs add up. My company's travel policy doesn't allow us to buy domestic F in any circumstance, and international J in only rare circumstances. Nor does it reimburse lounge passes. And I can focus on a credit card that has much better rebate potential than any airline card. This is really rehashing a lot of ground that was covered in the other thread. So I'm not sure there's any point in continuing. |
Thankfully, I only have 53 AAdvantage miles left in my account. I've burned 302,500 miles on EY F, QF F, JL F and CX F redemptions from this December until February. It was good while it lasted!
Makes me feel all the better about being a disloyal customer just before I was about to jump on the status chasing bandwagon. |
Originally Posted by Fanjet
(Post 25730529)
Well, that doesn't sound very loyal. That's sounds like you're just in it for yourself. Kind of like a partner at a wedding ceremony telling his bride that he promises to be loyal and faithful as long as she remains pretty, doesn't gain wait, and earns a good paycheck.
Whatever you're smoking, care to share? It is clearly very potent. |
Originally Posted by lobo411
(Post 25730548)
Honestly, I think you have loyalty and slAAvery confused.
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Originally Posted by bse118
(Post 25730554)
* But what happens when things go south and IRROPs happen?
* But do you get lounge access on international trips? * But was there space for your carry on when you boarded in group 4 or 5? * But did you have to fly in a middle seat? * But did you have to stand in line at check in or security (no PreCheck, and OLCI not always available/working, at international stations)? * etc. Over the 60 to 80 segments I fly in a year, these things matter. The ancillary costs add up. My company's travel policy doesn't allow us to buy domestic F in any circumstance, and international J in only rare circumstances. Nor does it reimburse lounge passes. And I can focus on a credit card that has much better rebate potential than any airline card. This is really rehashing a lot of ground that was covered in the other thread. So I'm not sure there's any point in continuing.
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Originally Posted by GrandMoffJoseph
(Post 25730238)
Well, I'd LOL if it was that stingy too. But, I'd propose a more attractive offer than that.
WN, VX and AS all make money right now without an overseas network. Running the USA domestic network as a loss leader for ultra-long haul is precisely backwards; most of the time it's the ultra-long hauls that are the loss leader.
Originally Posted by GUWonder
(Post 25730365)
AA's moving more and more toward the DL model when it comes to the loyalty program for retail customers. And the results there aren't so pretty unless your regular paid flying is mostly represented by something like passengers flying in flexible business class from the East Coast to Europe. But even there the goal seems to be to fluff up the elite ranks so that churning of the FFP customers resulting from the gutting of program participation benefits isn't all that problematic for the airline.
Originally Posted by Phasers
(Post 25730327)
You again. Ok I'll bite.
I have purchased a ticker on a carrier I have no status on. So let's review.
Many of these issues could be solved with simply getting the cobranded credit card. |
Originally Posted by Juanefny
(Post 25729664)
Ok. Help explain this to me. Why would someone that always buys first class tickets care about obtaining executive platinum.
11x multiplier for RDMs SWUs - For friends/family if you don't use them IRROPS could cause you to NOT be in first, so you want that free food/drink option (if it still exists) EXP phone line |
Originally Posted by Phasers
(Post 25730563)
Really? I have flown AA almost exclusively for 26 years, even with no status for many of those years, and that doesn't sound loyal to you?
These are not loyalty programs. They are reward programs. You are not obligated to fly exclusively with any given airline. But are being rewarded for doing so. And the airlines are determining how much to reward you for that. |
Originally Posted by Fanjet
(Post 25730611)
Is that like a husband telling his wife that he has been "almost exclusive" to her while they've been married because that's just how loyal he is?
These are not loyalty programs. They are reward programs. You are not obligated to fly exclusively with any given airline. But are being rewarded for doing so. And the airlines are determining how much to reward you for that. |
Originally Posted by sdultra
(Post 25730184)
My post on AA's Facebook page.....can you say FUMING MAD!!
As a 4+ million miler, who has been socking away miles to use once I stop flying for business, and a 16+ years Executive Platinum member, I am appalled at the upcoming mileage redemption changes just announced. As an example, today a 1st Class round trip award from US to Thailand is 135K miles. With your new award chart, it is now 220K miles. That is a mileage devaluation of over 40%, or a 60% increase in miles required for an equivalent award. Well, come the end of this year I will no longer be purchasing flights on AA, and start redeeming my now pillaged and ravaged 1.5 Million miles that I banked, which are now worth about half of what they were. You have lost a loyal and once dedicated customer. |
Originally Posted by Phasers
(Post 25730641)
Are you really comparing a marriage, which is quite literally a contract professing eternal love and faithfulness and exclusive loyalty to one another, to a business relationship with an airline?
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble
(Post 25730651)
I think that you have just highlighted that it is not loyalty , but a business relationship
Still, comparing it to a husband cheating on his wife is ridiculous... |
Originally Posted by Phasers
(Post 25730664)
Yes. Before it was a loyal business relationship. Now it is simply a business relationship.
Still, comparing it to a husband cheating on his wife is ridiculous... Were you really loyal or were you travelling with the airline based on what extras it would give you? :) |
Not surprising at all. However just like when Delta and United did this, unless you live near an AA hub there is no reason to remain loyal to them anymore. Just fly with whomever fits your budget/schedule/route network/product needs.
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Originally Posted by Phasers
(Post 25730664)
Yes. Before it was a loyal business relationship. Now it is simply a business relationship.
Still, comparing it to a husband cheating on his wife is ridiculous...
Originally Posted by Phasers
(Post 25730641)
Are you really comparing a marriage, which is quite literally a contract professing eternal love and faithfulness and exclusive loyalty to one another, to a business relationship with an airline?
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Originally Posted by tng11
(Post 25730555)
Thankfully, I only have 53 AAdvantage miles left in my account. I've burned 302,500 miles on EY F, QF F, JL F and CX F redemptions from this December until February. It was good while it lasted!
Makes me feel all the better about being a disloyal customer just before I was about to jump on the status chasing bandwagon. Also, that doesn't really make you disloyal. Those miles are yours to use. That's the whole point. I don't like this change because it will certainly lower the amount of RDMs I get, but lets not lose our heads. We still earn miles and we still keep the ones we already have. |
Is AA going to mAAtch UA and DL with complimentary upgrades for all elite members? If not, then this is worse than UA or DL. UA and DL upgrade all elites based on status and fare paid.
For earnings, just buy an -UP fare. You will earn more than if you actually tried to use a 500-mile upgrade as you will have "spent" more! High spenders, enjoy the beef with lobster macaroni and cheese or the eggplant parmesan. American will be glad you are here, just like their safety video signs off with. Low spenders, enjoy the BOB in the back. American won't be glad that you are here. You won't be spending enough.......... |
Originally Posted by Fanjet
(Post 25730611)
These are not loyalty programs. They are reward programs. You are not obligated to fly exclusively with any given airline. But are being rewarded for doing so. And the airlines are determining how much to reward you for that.
Traveling the world? Our loyalty program can get you there. In the best loyalty program The possibilities are endless From today's press release: FORT WORTH, Texas, Nov. 17, 2015 -- American Airlines is taking the first step in the evolution of its award-winning AAdvantageŽ loyalty program. <snip> The AAdvantage program was the first loyalty program in the industry, created in 1981. It has seen several changes over the decades and will continue to evolve to offer the best program for its members based on the access and rewards they desire most. For something you say isn't a "loyalty program," AA tends to describe it as one. For 34 years AA has called AAdvantage a loyalty program, even today, as portions of it are gutted. |
Originally Posted by Kate2015
(Post 25730686)
I must be missing something. Under the current system, I earn around 1200 miles for my commuting flights, round trip, usually in deep discount coach. Under the new system, I'd earn 8 X $350-ish miles = 2800 miles, more if I make EXP this year.
My international flights end up being 8 X $7000 (paid J) = 56,000 miles, vs around 22,000 that I earn now. Am I miscalculating that, because my commuting flights especially are in deep discount coach, which I thought were the very fares that AA didn't want to reward. I'm surprised I'd earn more miles? The breakeven point calculated on the UA board was 18cpm. If your fares are below 18cpm, you will lose, if above, you will win in the new system (for EXP) Further speculation led to the fact that now that there is a definite a value on a mile - the IRS may get interested in miles earned as part of work. Next step should be reward the actual payer, not the flyer. |
Originally Posted by subumbrum
(Post 25730697)
This post doesn't really make any sense. The announced changes don't affect existing miles, but rather future earned miles. So, if you truly "burned" them and used them just to use them, you've wasted your miles. Basically, they haven't announced a devaluation of miles, but instead just lowered the amount of miles people will earn in the future.
There is a change to earnings coming ( which will be better for some and worse for others (most?) ) PLUS an increase in price of numerous redemption options |
Taking this all in, I think the part that I am a little irked over is the 8 --4 SWUs... But if given the choice, there would be several other things I would have given up to ensure that I still got domestic upgrades, priority standby, etc. On the other hand, I better start planning some award travel to burn some of those miles I have piled up!
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Originally Posted by rankourabu
(Post 25730712)
Most people flying for work (especially OPM) have benefited under the UA/DL schemes. So this is not a surprise.
The breakeven point calculated on the UA board was 18cpm. If your fares are below 18cpm, you will lose, if above, you will win in the new system (for EXP) Further speculation led to the fact that now that there is a definite a value on a mile - the IRS may get interested in miles earned as part of work. Next step should be reward the actual payer, not the flyer. |
Originally Posted by Kate2015
(Post 25730752)
Good luck finding people to travel then. I certainly can't afford to pay additional taxes just because my company allows J.
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Originally Posted by Kate2015
(Post 25730752)
Good luck finding people to travel then. I certainly can't afford to pay additional taxes just because my company allows J.
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for all of you that are dissappointed and pissed off did you seriously think that this change (and furture changes) were actually going to enhance the program? If you did then what ever you are smoking...gimme some!!
Go Stars!!! |
Originally Posted by rankourabu
(Post 25730760)
You dont have to pay the taxes - just dont take the additional compensation for your work (ie. miles) ;)
Anyway. Speculation. |
Wouldn't care about the SWU reduction if they were actually a guaranteed instant upgrade instead of a maybe or maybe not type of thing.
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Originally Posted by rankourabu
(Post 25730712)
Most people flying for work (especially OPM) have benefited under the UA/DL schemes. So this is not a surprise.
The breakeven point calculated on the UA board was 18cpm. If your fares are below 18cpm, you will lose, if above, you will win in the new system (for EXP) Further speculation led to the fact that now that there is a definite a value on a mile - the IRS may get interested in miles earned as part of work. Next step should be reward the actual payer, not the flyer. With revenue-based mileage earning at AA/DL/UA, it seems like the business-oriented loyalty programs are a duplication and leaving cream to be removed from the top of the bucket. We are still well removed from the US IRS taxing FFP miles earned from business travel. |
Originally Posted by badjuju
(Post 25730648)
Add to that, I have over 2 million miles in the bank.
Earn it. Burn it. Earn it. Burn it. There's no other logic for FF miles that I can understand. |
Originally Posted by Mlle_Mustard
(Post 25729712)
Possibly for personal travel? Employer-paid J/F tickets gets the status, and then able to use SWUs to fly the family on vacation for cheap? And the little extras like first lounges when flying J. And better service during IRROPs and the like, although that might be a bit of a canard.
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This award-winning change actually encourages you to pay for first or business class and not wait to use a 500 mile upgrade. Those don't count toward your revenue/earning goals. UA and DL don't charge elites for upgrades so I don't see much value in waiting to upgrade, even for EXP on AA anymore. Buy-up fares could be a better deal, especially if it is YOM vs. OPM.
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Originally Posted by rankourabu
(Post 25730602)
Any idea what 2nd half of 2016 means - did they specify a month?
Makes a helluva difference for me for summer travel whether its revenue or distance by then Too bad AA chose to not differentiate themselves from DL and UA. Forgive me if already discussed, but this thread gets longer quicker than I can go through it. :o |
Originally Posted by rankourabu
(Post 25730712)
Further speculation led to the fact that now that there is a definite a value on a mile - the IRS may get interested in miles earned as part of work.
I know people have their weird little fantasies about anyone who benefits from the new scheme getting their comeuppance, but come on. |
They could have at least re-instated stop-overs and removed the hyper-restrictive routing rules in order to take some of the sting off these changes :(
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Video killed the radio star-What killed the mileage runner?
Today, AA, the final US major to significantly slash the benefits of its frequent flyer program, officially announced the new earn and reward structure.
Even as the airline industry continues to earn profits in the billions, the loyalty, or frequent flyer programs are being gutted. Which of the following do you think most responsible for the trend in gutting the programs: a) Lack of loyalty to the airline customer b) Desire to increase profits c) Richard Anderson's leadership on the issue, Smisek and Parker sheepishly following d) Desire to increase program benefits to loyal customers e) Desire to increase top line sales f) Industry consolidation g) Add your own perspective |
Originally Posted by Hollinger Clarke
(Post 25730405)
For anyone that thinks that Minimum Spend for Elite status will not be in the equation in the very near future - think again !
Rather, I predict that AA will achieve the same goal of culling the ranks by, effective Jan 1, 2017, granting discount coach fares on AA marketed flights only 0.5 EQMs. And thus, unlike DL and UA, there won't be a way to get around it with a credit card waiver. I think that awarding a minimum of 1 EQM per mile flown on AA marketed flights for 2016 is just a way to ease us into this new paradigm that is going to eventually look pretty close to the old EQPs. |
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