Apr 9, 2016, 5:10 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
Boeing 787-8 (788) Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business Class Seats Selection Guide & Reviews
There were 20 787-8 Dreamliners at the end of 2018, now gradually expanding to 42 total 788s in the AA fleet.
This thread is dedicated to discussion of the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner with Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business class seating and service
For the 787-9, see Boeing 787-9 / 789: Business (Rockwell Collins (née B/E) Super Diamond Seat, Service (master thd)
The 787-8 offers 20 modified Zodiac "Concept D" Business Suite all aisle access "podded" seats in 1-2-1 with back to back seating in the center pairs, and alternating front and rear facing window seats. They are said to be 21-26" wide, and have 60-61" pitch upright in pods with full aisle access and 77" in the horizontal "bed" position. True AVOD offering up to 250 movies, 160 TV shows, 13 radio channels, 375 albums and 20 games, is offered via cabled handset controllers to large flat touch screens. Power offered is 110 VAC via universal plugs and 5 VDC USB. Bose QuietComfort headsets with noise reduction are provided (picked up about one hour prior to arrival). Ku-Band satellite WiFi is offered for sale.
The Dreamliner "big sister" model (22 787-9, first in service September 2016, has Collins (née B/E Aerospace) Super Diamond Solo seats that largely avoid the Zodiac problems, is the "big sister"). The second batch of 787-8s (787T) differ from the first batch and are fitted with Collins Super Diamond seats.
Zodiac "Concept D Business Suite" seats connected "at the head" are affected by movement from the seat they are connected to, often referred to on FT as "motion over the ocean". The Business seats that are unconnected and stable in 787-8 J are 1D&H, 5A&L.
Due to the modifications AA required of Zodiac for these seats, there are some peculiarities reported:
Link to photos taken by SFO777 here, from his trip on AA2320 DFW-ORD 07:10 - 09:36 Inaugural flight, shared with 68 FlyerTalkers.
There were 20 787-8 Dreamliners at the end of 2018, now gradually expanding to 42 total 788s in the AA fleet.
This thread is dedicated to discussion of the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner with Zodiac Concept D Business Suite Business class seating and service
For the 787-9, see Boeing 787-9 / 789: Business (Rockwell Collins (née B/E) Super Diamond Seat, Service (master thd)
The 787-8 offers 20 modified Zodiac "Concept D" Business Suite all aisle access "podded" seats in 1-2-1 with back to back seating in the center pairs, and alternating front and rear facing window seats. They are said to be 21-26" wide, and have 60-61" pitch upright in pods with full aisle access and 77" in the horizontal "bed" position. True AVOD offering up to 250 movies, 160 TV shows, 13 radio channels, 375 albums and 20 games, is offered via cabled handset controllers to large flat touch screens. Power offered is 110 VAC via universal plugs and 5 VDC USB. Bose QuietComfort headsets with noise reduction are provided (picked up about one hour prior to arrival). Ku-Band satellite WiFi is offered for sale.
The Dreamliner "big sister" model (22 787-9, first in service September 2016, has Collins (née B/E Aerospace) Super Diamond Solo seats that largely avoid the Zodiac problems, is the "big sister"). The second batch of 787-8s (787T) differ from the first batch and are fitted with Collins Super Diamond seats.
Zodiac "Concept D Business Suite" seats connected "at the head" are affected by movement from the seat they are connected to, often referred to on FT as "motion over the ocean". The Business seats that are unconnected and stable in 787-8 J are 1D&H, 5A&L.
Remedial seat stability fix announced 9 Oct 2016 by John Walton, Runway Girl Network (link)
"Jay Mapston, American’s manager of onboard products, cabin design, spoke to Runway Girl Network with praiseworthy candor about the airline’s current situation and plans. To start, Mapston explains the 787-8 fleet’s (Zodiac) Concept D (Business Suite) will see remedial stability work to fix the much-discussed issue where the seats shake when an adjoining passenger moves."
As of July 2019, no such fix has been put in place. The seat modification has to be designed, submitted to the FAA for certification (STC) and approved, the parts manufactured and seats modified. Normally, the seat manufacturer would do this, but as AA terminated the Zodiac contract for failure to perform. It’s anyone’s guess when and if a fix is forthcoming.
AA canceled the contract with Zodiac for inability to comply with scheduled delivery times, causing seatless Dreamliners to sit out availability idled in the desert and causing considerable delay for the 777-200ER refurbishment. The seats were NOT used for the 787-9 nor more than half the 47 aircraft 772 fleet, and it is likely the newly ordered 788s will be equipped with Super Diamond Seats.
"Jay Mapston, American’s manager of onboard products, cabin design, spoke to Runway Girl Network with praiseworthy candor about the airline’s current situation and plans. To start, Mapston explains the 787-8 fleet’s (Zodiac) Concept D (Business Suite) will see remedial stability work to fix the much-discussed issue where the seats shake when an adjoining passenger moves."
As of July 2019, no such fix has been put in place. The seat modification has to be designed, submitted to the FAA for certification (STC) and approved, the parts manufactured and seats modified. Normally, the seat manufacturer would do this, but as AA terminated the Zodiac contract for failure to perform. It’s anyone’s guess when and if a fix is forthcoming.
AA canceled the contract with Zodiac for inability to comply with scheduled delivery times, causing seatless Dreamliners to sit out availability idled in the desert and causing considerable delay for the 777-200ER refurbishment. The seats were NOT used for the 787-9 nor more than half the 47 aircraft 772 fleet, and it is likely the newly ordered 788s will be equipped with Super Diamond Seats.
- Many seats are interlaced with others - passenger in one moves, the linked seat moves. "Motion over the ocean" is induced by the partner seat attached at the head,
- Forward facing seats may have more restricted shoulder room / width when flat than aft facing
- Middle seat privacy dividers were balky and continually slipped into the retracted position, so they were "fixed" in place so they are not passenger operable. Apparently crew fixes them in several configurations: all up, making them great for privacy but nearly impossible for couples wanting to share conversation; all down, making for lower privacy; facing forward up, facing aft down. Some aircraft have them repaired and passenger operable, some not.
- Rows 1 and 2 center seats have no overhead bins; they were displaced by the crew rest area in the fore fuselage crown.
- 1A and L are close to lav and galley.
- Many prefer seats 5A or L as they are unaffected by other seats / passenger movement in seats.
- 5A and 5L have one window, rather than two.
Link to photos taken by SFO777 here, from his trip on AA2320 DFW-ORD 07:10 - 09:36 Inaugural flight, shared with 68 FlyerTalkers.
Dreamliner 787-8 / 788 Zodiac Business Seats & Reviews (master thd)
Jun 25, 2023, 9:14 am
#812
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: DFW
Programs: AA EXP, BAEC Gold, IHG Platinum
Posts: 322
I'm booked on AA169 LAX-HND for Tuesday June 27. Am I correct that the flight will be operated by N877BF? And that that tail registration number has the new SuperDiamond Seats? I was in 5A but moved to 4A seeing that 5A has no windows, but would move back to 5A if it's definitely the old Zodiac seats.
Jun 25, 2023, 12:12 pm
#813
Join Date: May 2011
Location: DFW
Programs: AA EXP, LT Gold
Posts: 3,148
I'm booked on AA169 LAX-HND for Tuesday June 27. Am I correct that the flight will be operated by N877BF? And that that tail registration number has the new SuperDiamond Seats? I was in 5A but moved to 4A seeing that 5A has no windows, but would move back to 5A if it's definitely the old Zodiac seats.
Jul 10, 2023, 8:06 pm
#814
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: NYC
Programs: AA Executive Platinum, DL Silver, IHG Diamond Elite, Marriot Gold, HHonors Gold
Posts: 73
Oct 11, 2023, 9:13 am
#815
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: California
Programs: Bonvoy - Ambassador; AS - MVP Gold
Posts: 87
I'm booked on AA169 LAX-HND for Tuesday June 27. Am I correct that the flight will be operated by N877BF? And that that tail registration number has the new SuperDiamond Seats? I was in 5A but moved to 4A seeing that 5A has no windows, but would move back to 5A if it's definitely the old Zodiac seats.
I'm flying Haneda to LAX in 2 weeks and would love to know in advance which layout we will have on the flight.
Oct 11, 2023, 9:41 am
#816
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: RDU <|> MMX
Programs: AA EXP 2MM, SK EBS
Posts: 12,498
You will not know until 2-3 days before the flight which tail number is scheduled to operate your flight at which point you can see what config it will be. And even then it can still change back and forth in the last 48 hrs before the flight. All the info to track what config is posted above, see my post #805 for example.
Oct 11, 2023, 10:34 am
#817
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: DFW
Programs: AA EXP, BAEC Gold, IHG Platinum
Posts: 322
Going LAX-HND I flew out on the SuperDiamond- my last minute seat change to 4A was worth it. Coming back HND-LAX, I flew on the Zodiac seats and stayed in 5A (to avoid the seat rockiness). Both times I didn't know the plane until about 2 days prior and even then I checked until the day of to make sure there wasn't again another last minute change.
Oct 15, 2023, 11:22 pm
#818
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: So Cal
Programs: AA Platinum
Posts: 2,722
Is AA showing the reverse seat notches as the standard seat map for all 788 flights b/c there are more planes with the Zodiacs? With the 772 its always showing all forward facing but you never know til a couple days out. Just noticed all the 788's LAX to HND show the notches so wasnt sure if its route specific who gets the Zodiac Vs. BE for the 788 or if thats just the standard way they are showing it. Seems from reading above its still a crap shoot and I wont know until a couple days out.
Oct 16, 2023, 6:40 am
#819
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: RDU <|> MMX
Programs: AA EXP 2MM, SK EBS
Posts: 12,498
Is AA showing the reverse seat notches as the standard seat map for all 788 flights b/c there are more planes with the Zodiacs? With the 772 its always showing all forward facing but you never know til a couple days out. Just noticed all the 788's LAX to HND show the notches so wasnt sure if its route specific who gets the Zodiac Vs. BE for the 788 or if thats just the standard way they are showing it. Seems from reading above its still a crap shoot and I wont know until a couple days out.
Oct 18, 2023, 3:56 pm
#821
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: CLT
Programs: AA EXP, 2 Million Miler
Posts: 821
My wife and I prefer D & H as we can talk to each other easier. The odd rows are rear facing, so your shoulders are closer together to make it easier to talk as well, also you get more surface area to set stuff on than the front facing seats.
Oct 18, 2023, 8:24 pm
#822
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Houston , TX
Programs: Platinum Pro. .Hilton Honors Gold,
Posts: 678
Just flew LAX HND 12:25am it was the old reverse seats. The Casper bedding helps it was alright. If you want IFE you have to tap the outlet because even the B and G headphones are worn out. Getting the seat back up to home good luck with that. Like a car that reverse is really drive and neutral is really reverse and drive is really park. Are the new deliveries the only planes that will begin receiving the new J product in 2025 ? I would say refurbish these planes ASAP. Im taking the 6:15pm flight returning from HND to LAX and it is also the old product.
Oct 19, 2023, 12:33 am
#823
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: So Cal
Programs: AA Platinum
Posts: 2,722
Just flew LAX HND 12:25am it was the old reverse seats. The Casper bedding helps it was alright. If you want IFE you have to tap the outlet because even the B and G headphones are worn out. Getting the seat back up to home good luck with that. Like a car that reverse is really drive and neutral is really reverse and drive is really park. Are the new deliveries the only planes that will begin receiving the new J product in 2025 ? I would say refurbish these planes ASAP. Im taking the 6:15pm flight returning from HND to LAX and it is also the old product.
I am on the same flight pretty soon. Think it may be 1150pm for me. I am doing miles + copay and just hoping if I do get the upgrade that I walk on and see BE seats.
Oct 26, 2023, 12:39 am
#824
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: So Cal
Programs: AA Platinum
Posts: 2,722
Just did an in app upgrade for $700 from MC on a $324 ticket for HND-LAX. I feel like for $1024 total cost I am getting a pretty good deal given the ticket sells outright in J for $4400-4900. I have to say knowing I just paid that to essentially sit in the seats I cant stand isnt that appealing to me but it certainly will beat being in the back for 10 hours. I am crossing my fingers for getting 1 of the 3 BE planes.
I was wondering first off I thought AA got 4 788's with BE but I only 3 flying around.. Is there a 4th?
Next question is just just that would you all go 1H, 2L, 4D. Thats all that is available. Heding for the BE is pointless with only 3/20 of them so I have to just pick straight away as if its a Zodiac.. These 3 seats all pose issues. I dont like sititng backwards on this plane. No issue whatsoever with backwards but on this plane you are facing into the aisle and it lacks privacy b/c of that. I also think (maybe I am wrong) that the footwell/bench is smaller on the rear facing seats.
So between 1H & 2L I would never normally pick a middle seat tavelling alone but I think 1H is better 2L here b/c of the most important thing which is to not rock everytime the other person connected moves. 1D is pilot rest and blocked I think but not sure if that is a good bad thing. Dont the 788's have a place for crew rest above so the seat will just be empty? And can anyone confirm that the dividers do work and go up? Wasnt there an AA plane where the dividers dont move and are set in the down position always? If someone sits in 1D and the divider is down it does seem like you would be very close to them.
And then there is 4D which gets me forward facing like I really prefer on this plane and more privacy not looking into the aisle but it still is a middle seat and would be prone to the rocking issue.
I'm totally torn on this one. If it was BE then the choice is hands down 2L with out even an afterthought..
EDIT: I know I wrote a novel on this but the two things that can help me decide are does 1D just remain empty or is it a rotating seat for pilots ? And do the dividers stay up or they are always down ?
I was wondering first off I thought AA got 4 788's with BE but I only 3 flying around.. Is there a 4th?
Next question is just just that would you all go 1H, 2L, 4D. Thats all that is available. Heding for the BE is pointless with only 3/20 of them so I have to just pick straight away as if its a Zodiac.. These 3 seats all pose issues. I dont like sititng backwards on this plane. No issue whatsoever with backwards but on this plane you are facing into the aisle and it lacks privacy b/c of that. I also think (maybe I am wrong) that the footwell/bench is smaller on the rear facing seats.
So between 1H & 2L I would never normally pick a middle seat tavelling alone but I think 1H is better 2L here b/c of the most important thing which is to not rock everytime the other person connected moves. 1D is pilot rest and blocked I think but not sure if that is a good bad thing. Dont the 788's have a place for crew rest above so the seat will just be empty? And can anyone confirm that the dividers do work and go up? Wasnt there an AA plane where the dividers dont move and are set in the down position always? If someone sits in 1D and the divider is down it does seem like you would be very close to them.
And then there is 4D which gets me forward facing like I really prefer on this plane and more privacy not looking into the aisle but it still is a middle seat and would be prone to the rocking issue.
I'm totally torn on this one. If it was BE then the choice is hands down 2L with out even an afterthought..
EDIT: I know I wrote a novel on this but the two things that can help me decide are does 1D just remain empty or is it a rotating seat for pilots ? And do the dividers stay up or they are always down ?
Last edited by happiest_at_40000; Oct 26, 2023 at 2:05 pm
Oct 26, 2023, 8:37 am
#825
Join Date: Mar 2022
Posts: 7
Another question about the 787-800. We are flying from MIA-LAX as part of a longer trip. AA cancelled our original flight on the A321 neo and booked us on a flight still using the old layout 787. There is still good availability for business seats - there are two of us. Any comments on best seats (especially if one of us is not keen to fly backwards)? We are also wondering about overhead bin space - if we go with a mid section seat are there any overhead storage bins? Any and all advice much appreciated.