Jul 10, 2013, 4:13 pm
Last edit by: JDiver
SIZE="4"]AA "instant upgrade" (-UP) fare
Click here for the current thread.
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These are often referred to as "instant upgrade" fares; they upgrade into the class of service P, A or I internationally with positive space; OSO / schedule disruptions mean unless the P, A, D, I etc. fare is offered on the new flight they "downgrade" to Coach on the next available flight. (One can wait for the next flight with P, A, D, I available, but this might require overnights etc. at one's expense.)
Purchasers should carefully read the Detailed Fare Rules, as many of these are, as essentially "instant upgrades", punitive in effect during IROPS / OSO", "change of gauge" aircraft substitutions, cancellations and missed connections because if the necessary fare inventory isn't available one is generally given the option to fly now, in Economy, or wait until such inventory becomes available (which may entail hours or days at the passenger's own expense).
The detailed fare codes for these flights might look like (international) GNE7C0Z1/CRUP or SNE7C0Z1/CRUP, Lxxxx, etc. Reaccommodation in Coach: these particular sample fates will be treated like an N class fare. As well: "The most restrictive set of fare rules applies to the entire itinerary. In addition other fare rules may apply."
In the detailed fare rules, instant upgrade fares may include something like this:
E.G. During irregular operations or missed connections, one may continue in that class of service if A, P, D, I etc. as applicable is available, or the passenger can take a voluntary downgrade to the lower class of service / Y on an earlier flight. Some may do this if waiting for A, P or I requires one or more overnights.
Refunds may be limited to $0.50 per mile to a maximum of $50 per downgraded segment, and are limited to vouchers good for future travel on AA.
Link to compensation offered for an involuntary downgrade of "instant upgrade" fares:
One explanatory post (15 Apr 2015) might be:
Click here for the current thread.
[/SIZE]
These are often referred to as "instant upgrade" fares; they upgrade into the class of service P, A or I internationally with positive space; OSO / schedule disruptions mean unless the P, A, D, I etc. fare is offered on the new flight they "downgrade" to Coach on the next available flight. (One can wait for the next flight with P, A, D, I available, but this might require overnights etc. at one's expense.)
Purchasers should carefully read the Detailed Fare Rules, as many of these are, as essentially "instant upgrades", punitive in effect during IROPS / OSO", "change of gauge" aircraft substitutions, cancellations and missed connections because if the necessary fare inventory isn't available one is generally given the option to fly now, in Economy, or wait until such inventory becomes available (which may entail hours or days at the passenger's own expense).
The detailed fare codes for these flights might look like (international) GNE7C0Z1/CRUP or SNE7C0Z1/CRUP, Lxxxx, etc. Reaccommodation in Coach: these particular sample fates will be treated like an N class fare. As well: "The most restrictive set of fare rules applies to the entire itinerary. In addition other fare rules may apply."
In the detailed fare rules, instant upgrade fares may include something like this:
ECONOMY FARE WITH AN INSTANT ONE-CLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE TO FIRST/BUSINESS. APPLICATION CLASS OF SERVICE THESE FARES APPLY FOR ECONOMY CLASS SERVICE. CAPACITY LIMITATIONS SEATS ARE LIMITED BOTH ECONOMY AND FIRST CLASS BOOKING INVENTORIES MUST BE AVAILABLE AT TIME OF BOOKING. THESE FARES PERMIT A ONE-CLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF BOOKING.
Refunds may be limited to $0.50 per mile to a maximum of $50 per downgraded segment, and are limited to vouchers good for future travel on AA.
Link to compensation offered for an involuntary downgrade of "instant upgrade" fares:
Instant Upgrade tickets are booked in the Main Cabin. However, Instant upgrade ticketholders who travel in the Main Cabin due to an involuntary seat change, equipment change, routing change, flight cancellation, or missed connection as a result of a late incoming flight may request a travel voucher. The voucher value shall be equal to $0.10 per mile, or $50, whichever is greater, for each flight segment flown in the downgraded cabin. Refunds will be rounded to the nearest whole dollar amount, and can be requested at www.aa.com/refunds.
...
Just moments ago, I priced out a trip from LAX to DFW, and two different discounted First Class ticket options were presented, the fare class of one was SA00ZNI1 (books into P) and the other was MA00ZRI1 (books into A).
At the bottom of the purchase summary screen, AA provides this warning:
The fare rules for both tickets provide the following as the last entry:
Why does this matter? Because if I buy either of these tickets and then I decide that I want to fly an earlier or later flight, these fares will not permit me to walk up to the counter and claim a last-minute F seat if my capacity-controlled inventory is not available. For instance, if that last F seat is in F (not P or A), then I'd have to pay the fare difference in order to confirm a change to that seat.
We can (and have for years and years) argued around here that these fare practices are misleading - and I agree. Nevertheless, AA is most certainly still selling what it considers to be "instant upgrade" fares, and savvy travelers should read the fare rules* and plan accordingly.
*Or at least download them to your hard drive as a pdf at the time of reservation/purchase so that others might help decipher them when things go inverted. So often around here, people post questions where reading the fare rules is vital to an accurate answer, and they respond "who reads/saves those when buying a ticket?"
Back to the OP's question: How to find instant upgrade tickets? Nearly every domestic first class fare I've seen on aa.com is an instant upgrade ticket. Finding a domestic first class fare that isn't an instant upgrade fare is quite a chore. The OP can rest assured that if their fare books in P, A or F, they're going to earn their hoped-for tier points. As Microwave pointed out, the best/correct place for that discussion is in the British Airways forum where there are numerous BAEC members with experience in buying and flying on AA's instant upgrade F tickets.
Just moments ago, I priced out a trip from LAX to DFW, and two different discounted First Class ticket options were presented, the fare class of one was SA00ZNI1 (books into P) and the other was MA00ZRI1 (books into A).
At the bottom of the purchase summary screen, AA provides this warning:
■ First/Business Fares may be an Instant Upgrade and therefore subject to restrictions.
Rule Application
and Other Conditions
NOTE THE FOLLOWING TEXT IS INFORMATIONAL AND NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. ECONOMY FARE WITH AN INSTANT ONECLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE TO FIRST/BUSINESS. APPLICATION CLASS OF SERVICE THESE FARES APPLY FOR ECONOMY CLASS SERVICE. CAPACITY LIMITATIONS SEATS ARE LIMITED BOTH ECONOMY AND FIRST CLASS BOOKING INVENTORIES MUST BE AVAILABLE AT TIME OF BOOKING. THESE FARES PERMIT A ONECLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF BOOKING.
and Other Conditions
NOTE THE FOLLOWING TEXT IS INFORMATIONAL AND NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. ECONOMY FARE WITH AN INSTANT ONECLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE TO FIRST/BUSINESS. APPLICATION CLASS OF SERVICE THESE FARES APPLY FOR ECONOMY CLASS SERVICE. CAPACITY LIMITATIONS SEATS ARE LIMITED BOTH ECONOMY AND FIRST CLASS BOOKING INVENTORIES MUST BE AVAILABLE AT TIME OF BOOKING. THESE FARES PERMIT A ONECLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF BOOKING.
We can (and have for years and years) argued around here that these fare practices are misleading - and I agree. Nevertheless, AA is most certainly still selling what it considers to be "instant upgrade" fares, and savvy travelers should read the fare rules* and plan accordingly.
*Or at least download them to your hard drive as a pdf at the time of reservation/purchase so that others might help decipher them when things go inverted. So often around here, people post questions where reading the fare rules is vital to an accurate answer, and they respond "who reads/saves those when buying a ticket?"
Back to the OP's question: How to find instant upgrade tickets? Nearly every domestic first class fare I've seen on aa.com is an instant upgrade ticket. Finding a domestic first class fare that isn't an instant upgrade fare is quite a chore. The OP can rest assured that if their fare books in P, A or F, they're going to earn their hoped-for tier points. As Microwave pointed out, the best/correct place for that discussion is in the British Airways forum where there are numerous BAEC members with experience in buying and flying on AA's instant upgrade F tickets.
ARCHIVE: AA "instant upgrade" (-UP, YUP) fare discount First (master thd)
Jul 10, 2013, 10:29 pm
#211
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: LAX
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 946
I've gone through a few of the trips I'd like to take in the near and distant future and am not seeing any Instant Upgrade options on AA.com. Is there a trick to it? Am I better off calling to book these?
Jul 11, 2013, 1:42 am
#212
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine
Programs: Mucci, BA Gold, TK Elite, HHonors Lifetime Diamond
Posts: 7,691
I interpret this as "I" is required unless (1) you're on flights 2500-5099 or you're on a domestic flight ("within USA") that doesn't have I, then you can book A or Y. But I think Y will only work if no A is offered. If it's offered but not available, you probably can't book the fare.
But that's kind of moot because the leg you're trying to downgrade is not "within USA" or within the specified range.
But that's kind of moot because the leg you're trying to downgrade is not "within USA" or within the specified range.
Sep 11, 2013, 11:58 am
#213
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: LAX
Programs: AA Gold (prev. Ex Plat for 10 years); DL Plat; UA Gold; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,339
Had a situation today I wanted to get feedback on here.
I purchased a fairly expensive KUP fare for CLE-LAX (booked into P for the upgrade). The fare was about $900 one-way (the reasons I booked this flight are not particularly germane here, involved an expiring credit that needed to be used).
Original flight was CLE-DFW-LAX. I got out of meetings early and decided I wanted to scoot home several hours early so I went to the airport and they put me on standby for CLE-ORD-LAX. CLE-ORD was an Eagle flight with no F; no biggie. ORD-LAX had a couple of P bucket seats available until boarding. The AAgent was a bit rushed and confirmed me into a Y seat. I inquired very nicely about the possibility of confirming into one of the P seats but she said those were held for EXP upgrades.
Ultimately, I didn't want to make a scene so I took the Y seat. Turned out the flight was 2/3 empty and I had my own row, which happens almost never. I did have a slight sense of frustration that I paid $900 for a Y seat that I could have purchased for $220, but I was happy to get home earlier.
Understand the rules with -UP fares and sometimes leads to a Y seat. My question is more this - why was I denied a P-class seat when 2 were available and went to upgraded customers instead? I'd think a space positive PLT would take priority over EXPLT upgrades.
Nevertheless, lesson learned on these - I use them fairly frequently and often without drama. This worked out for me in the end.
I purchased a fairly expensive KUP fare for CLE-LAX (booked into P for the upgrade). The fare was about $900 one-way (the reasons I booked this flight are not particularly germane here, involved an expiring credit that needed to be used).
Original flight was CLE-DFW-LAX. I got out of meetings early and decided I wanted to scoot home several hours early so I went to the airport and they put me on standby for CLE-ORD-LAX. CLE-ORD was an Eagle flight with no F; no biggie. ORD-LAX had a couple of P bucket seats available until boarding. The AAgent was a bit rushed and confirmed me into a Y seat. I inquired very nicely about the possibility of confirming into one of the P seats but she said those were held for EXP upgrades.
Ultimately, I didn't want to make a scene so I took the Y seat. Turned out the flight was 2/3 empty and I had my own row, which happens almost never. I did have a slight sense of frustration that I paid $900 for a Y seat that I could have purchased for $220, but I was happy to get home earlier.
Understand the rules with -UP fares and sometimes leads to a Y seat. My question is more this - why was I denied a P-class seat when 2 were available and went to upgraded customers instead? I'd think a space positive PLT would take priority over EXPLT upgrades.
Nevertheless, lesson learned on these - I use them fairly frequently and often without drama. This worked out for me in the end.
Sep 11, 2013, 2:51 pm
#214
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 681
Perhaps because you were cleared as a "standby" with no change fee/penalty? When you say you were "space positive," you mean AFTER you cleared standby?
Even if the K fare bucket was available, I'm guessing you don't get the upgrade unless you do a same day confirmed change for $75.
I know when changing flights (earlier/later) on "standby" you go to the bottom of the gate upgrade list after all other confirmed pax, even behind lesser elite levels.
Even if the K fare bucket was available, I'm guessing you don't get the upgrade unless you do a same day confirmed change for $75.
I know when changing flights (earlier/later) on "standby" you go to the bottom of the gate upgrade list after all other confirmed pax, even behind lesser elite levels.
Last edited by Potreroflyr; Sep 11, 2013 at 3:06 pm Reason: Corrected fare class
Sep 11, 2013, 5:35 pm
#215
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: LAX
Programs: AA Gold (prev. Ex Plat for 10 years); DL Plat; UA Gold; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,339
Perhaps because you were cleared as a "standby" with no change fee/penalty? When you say you were "space positive," you mean AFTER you cleared standby?
Even if the K fare bucket was available, I'm guessing you don't get the upgrade unless you do a same day confirmed change for $75.
I know when changing flights (earlier/later) on "standby" you go to the bottom of the gate upgrade list after all other confirmed pax, even behind lesser elite levels.
Even if the K fare bucket was available, I'm guessing you don't get the upgrade unless you do a same day confirmed change for $75.
I know when changing flights (earlier/later) on "standby" you go to the bottom of the gate upgrade list after all other confirmed pax, even behind lesser elite levels.
Was certainly my choice so not upset with AA on this one. Got home 6 hours early which is worth a lot to me! Good to know for the future...still re-learning the ins and outs here after being a DL Plat for several years.
Sep 11, 2013, 6:29 pm
#216
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: PHL / NYC / PSA-BLQ
Programs: AA PPRO, Marriott/Hilton Gold, AMX-Plat, Global Entry
Posts: 3,110
Ah, this is probably the reason. Yes, I was cleared as a standby; the standby card said "First Cl" and the priority verification card said I was booked in P. I therefore (wrongly) assumed I was awaiting and would be cleared into P. Both K and P were available when I checked in at ORD.
Was certainly my choice so not upset with AA on this one. Got home 6 hours early which is worth a lot to me! Good to know for the future...still re-learning the ins and outs here after being a DL Plat for several years.
Was certainly my choice so not upset with AA on this one. Got home 6 hours early which is worth a lot to me! Good to know for the future...still re-learning the ins and outs here after being a DL Plat for several years.
Sep 17, 2013, 3:12 pm
#217
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: FLL
Programs: AA EXP 1MM, Hyatt Diamond, HH Diamond, Marriott Silver, Avis First
Posts: 419
Even though P inventory was available, unless the same fare was still available, it wouldn't matter (i.e. if there were no advance purchase restrictions). If that were the case, they could just rebook you, since most of these fares rarely have change fees. If the agent was nice, they could have revalidated the ticket, but they aren't supposed to do that unless its unrestricted, although some might. If the ticket is unrestricted, a self service machine will revalidate it for you if you touch "change flight" instead of putting you on the standby list like it does for most tickets.
Oct 4, 2013, 1:41 pm
#218
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2013
Programs: DL PM, MR Titanium/LTP, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 10,130
I just want to verify that I am reading this thread correctly. Based on what I've read this fare:
SD14ERD1/WAUP
Is not treated as a F (it's a domestic) from an EQP perspective. It makes a big difference as I may be a few EQP short for my challenge due to reduced travel around Thanksgiving and I know the most economical way of getting EQPs is with premium fares and in this case there is a fairly big difference between this being considered an S fare and this being considered a P fare (if it's an S fare it's not worth it, if it's a P fare for EQP purposes it is).
On the flip side I believe this would be considered P from EQP purposes since the P is before the /. Any insight is much appreciated
SA14EIP1
SD14ERD1/WAUP
Is not treated as a F (it's a domestic) from an EQP perspective. It makes a big difference as I may be a few EQP short for my challenge due to reduced travel around Thanksgiving and I know the most economical way of getting EQPs is with premium fares and in this case there is a fairly big difference between this being considered an S fare and this being considered a P fare (if it's an S fare it's not worth it, if it's a P fare for EQP purposes it is).
On the flip side I believe this would be considered P from EQP purposes since the P is before the /. Any insight is much appreciated
SA14EIP1
Oct 4, 2013, 2:55 pm
#219
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Worldwide
Posts: 12,949
Oct 4, 2013, 3:13 pm
#220
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Worldwide
Posts: 12,949
SD14ERD1/WAUP
Is not treated as a F (it's a domestic) from an EQP perspective. It makes a big difference as I may be a few EQP short for my challenge due to reduced travel around Thanksgiving and I know the most economical way of getting EQPs is with premium fares and in this case there is a fairly big difference between this being considered an S fare and this being considered a P fare
Is not treated as a F (it's a domestic) from an EQP perspective. It makes a big difference as I may be a few EQP short for my challenge due to reduced travel around Thanksgiving and I know the most economical way of getting EQPs is with premium fares and in this case there is a fairly big difference between this being considered an S fare and this being considered a P fare
[KVS Availability Tool 7.3.0 - Routing Rules: WAS-CHI/AA/SD14ERD1/WAUP/*]
Code:
WASCHI-AA 04OCT13 *RULE DISPLAY* TARIFF 0191 RULE WAUP
-FARE BASIS USD TAX TOTAL PTC FT
SD14ERD1/WAUP R 472.56 35.44 508.00 ADT NL
SD14ERD1 R 0.00 0.00 0.00 INF NL
SD14ERD1 R 472.56 35.44 508.00 INS NL
BOOKING CODES P, S
INDUSTRY FARE TYPE - XND - EXCURSION NON DISCOUNTABLE
---------------------------------------------------------------
ROUTING 1 *** TRAVEL MUST BE NONSTOP ***
Oct 7, 2013, 2:45 pm
#221
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 27,238
EQP earning is based on the booking class, not the fare basis code. These types of fares usually book into P but sometimes A. Both P and A booking classes earn 1.5x EQPs. You will absolutely earn the bonus EQPs, as well as the 50% class of service bonus miles.
Oct 7, 2013, 10:09 pm
#222
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: SEATTLE, WA USA
Programs: UAL, AA, AS, CX
Posts: 1,973
Does anyone know if there are any UP/KUP YUP WAUP fares on the SEA-IND route for early August 2014? Im not sure just how to search this out but since Y fare is already running at $700+ dollars I thought a UPfare might be cheaper and in F more comfortable. Thanks
Oct 8, 2013, 10:13 am
#223
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Michigan
Programs: AA EXP(4mm), DL Gold, UA Gold (1mm), HH Diamond, Bonvoy Amb(l/t Titanium). Former EA/PA elite
Posts: 994
Just had a situation today on PHX-DFW-AUS. I had purchased a one-way YUP fare for just under $400 about 2 weeks ago. It booked into P. I decided I wanted to leave earlier in the day from PHX on the same day of travel. EXP desk told me last night that the best bet would be to stand-by at the airport this morning if I did not want to pay the $139 up-fare since my original fare basis was not available on the earlier flight. She said I would get on....and likely in F class. My review of the seat maps as well as expertflyer allowed me to conclude the same thing that the EXP agent indicated. There were still 4 seats in F for sale.
At the airport this morning I was put on the standby list. It's worth mentioning that at the time I checked in, they were still selling seats in Y for the entire trip for $132.00!
Once at the gate, I noticed one person on the upgrade list and then that changed to two. My name was not on the upgrade list but I was number 1 on the standby list. I was called by the GA 40 minutes before flight time (and before boarding had starting)and given a boarding pass in Y. When I asked if I was on the UG list, she said yes but that I would not likely get into F as it was going to fill up with other upgraders that already were confirmed on the flight but not yet upgraded. She refused to budge and sure enough two more people eventually were added to the UG list and got the final two seats. FWIW, my name never appeared on the airport UG list even though the GA insisted that I was on it.
Two lines of questions:
1. What are the rules for going standby on an earlier flight with a YUP fare? Where should one stand in terms of getting into F? Should the YUP fare have priority for F seats over others? Is it correct that all other "upgraders" that originally had reservations on this flight are accommodated first before the YUP standby passenger even though the YUP passenger received his bp 40 minutes before flight time and at which time there were still 2 F seats still for sale and yet I never appeared on the UG list?
2. In hindsight, I'm thinking I would have been better off purchasing a $132 Y-class ticket this morning and then officially getting on the ug list......and almost certainly clearing. I probably could have then had a credit for my YUP ticket to use for future travel. Thoughts?
I was pretty frustrated with the GA in PHX but maybe my logic is faulty. As it happens, the FA's on the PHX-DFW flight really took care of me in my window seat on the last row of Y. They both got "applause" certificates!!
At the airport this morning I was put on the standby list. It's worth mentioning that at the time I checked in, they were still selling seats in Y for the entire trip for $132.00!
Once at the gate, I noticed one person on the upgrade list and then that changed to two. My name was not on the upgrade list but I was number 1 on the standby list. I was called by the GA 40 minutes before flight time (and before boarding had starting)and given a boarding pass in Y. When I asked if I was on the UG list, she said yes but that I would not likely get into F as it was going to fill up with other upgraders that already were confirmed on the flight but not yet upgraded. She refused to budge and sure enough two more people eventually were added to the UG list and got the final two seats. FWIW, my name never appeared on the airport UG list even though the GA insisted that I was on it.
Two lines of questions:
1. What are the rules for going standby on an earlier flight with a YUP fare? Where should one stand in terms of getting into F? Should the YUP fare have priority for F seats over others? Is it correct that all other "upgraders" that originally had reservations on this flight are accommodated first before the YUP standby passenger even though the YUP passenger received his bp 40 minutes before flight time and at which time there were still 2 F seats still for sale and yet I never appeared on the UG list?
2. In hindsight, I'm thinking I would have been better off purchasing a $132 Y-class ticket this morning and then officially getting on the ug list......and almost certainly clearing. I probably could have then had a credit for my YUP ticket to use for future travel. Thoughts?
I was pretty frustrated with the GA in PHX but maybe my logic is faulty. As it happens, the FA's on the PHX-DFW flight really took care of me in my window seat on the last row of Y. They both got "applause" certificates!!
Oct 9, 2013, 2:32 pm
#224
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: DFW
Programs: AS, BA, AA
Posts: 3,670
Two lines of questions:
1. What are the rules for going standby on an earlier flight with a YUP fare? Where should one stand in terms of getting into F? Should the YUP fare have priority for F seats over others? Is it correct that all other "upgraders" that originally had reservations on this flight are accommodated first before the YUP standby passenger even though the YUP passenger received his bp 40 minutes before flight time and at which time there were still 2 F seats still for sale and yet I never appeared on the UG list?
2. In hindsight, I'm thinking I would have been better off purchasing a $132 Y-class ticket this morning and then officially getting on the ug list......and almost certainly clearing. I probably could have then had a credit for my YUP ticket to use for future travel. Thoughts?
1. What are the rules for going standby on an earlier flight with a YUP fare? Where should one stand in terms of getting into F? Should the YUP fare have priority for F seats over others? Is it correct that all other "upgraders" that originally had reservations on this flight are accommodated first before the YUP standby passenger even though the YUP passenger received his bp 40 minutes before flight time and at which time there were still 2 F seats still for sale and yet I never appeared on the UG list?
2. In hindsight, I'm thinking I would have been better off purchasing a $132 Y-class ticket this morning and then officially getting on the ug list......and almost certainly clearing. I probably could have then had a credit for my YUP ticket to use for future travel. Thoughts?
2. That sounds like an excellent suggestion (in hindsight), and I will keep it in mind for future use... check whether the walk-up fare is less expensive than the value of the ticket I already purchased minus the change fee. ^
Jan 31, 2014, 4:53 pm
#225
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: ORD
Programs: AA PLT
Posts: 2,781
Trying to use an UP fare as part of a multi-city, mixed-class booking (coach on the way out, business on the return). AA.com will let you mix cabins on round-trip itineraries, but I can't seem to figure out a way to do so for multi-city. Multiple web services and international desk reps have insisted UP fares are only available on the website, and that they have no way of overriding the system to upfare over the phone. I am able to get the proper mixed cabin selection I want on Concur, but would prefer to ticket with AA directly. Any thoughts? Only thing that came to mind would be to put biz on hold the whole way and then call to have them downfare the outbound, but I'm not sure that would work.
Edit: Tried the downfaring trick, but it won't work.
Edit: Tried the downfaring trick, but it won't work.
Last edited by linglingfool; Jan 31, 2014 at 5:24 pm