inlanikai

I guess you don't fly to NRT.

MDXman

This really isn't an AA issue, but rather an ATC issue. When there are weather delays and such, if you're not boarded and waiting to go, your plane is not even in line in the system to get to its destination. That's why they board even when they know there will be a delay. Should they be upfront about this before boarding? Absolutely, in my opinion. I have been on flights where I have been informed before boarding of a delay and have seen other flights while connecting that have been informed. I have also been in the situation where there was not an announcement.

I have to understand, though, that if I'm flying to Philadelphia in the middle of summer and thunderstorms are lined up along the Eastern Seaboard, there's a good chance I might have to endure a delay.

MDXman

Also, I'd point out that the new policy states that AA will not hold passengers on board planes no longer than 4 hours. Not that they will always wait 4 hours before cancelling. I would image there are numerous instances where the crew and AA operations will make the cancellation call well before 4 hours.

Blumie

Where did the unions come into this?

Blumie

It's also a real estate issue. On a bad day, there just are not enough gates to hold all of the planes that are subject to ATC holds.

hillrider

The airlines had a chance for "self-regulation" in 1999, and they completely blew it. Oh, it's so nice for AA to put an internal "rule" and leak it to the press, yet AA can change this at any time and it's not even part of their contract with you (if they break it, tough luck).

It's time to have protections that are codified and universal to all airlines, not some BS that varies from airline to airline and that can be changed and amended at will. We need lemon laws for airlines: they worked exceedingly well with car manufacturers. Please support the Airline Passenger Bill of Rights, see http://www.strandedpassengers.blogspot.com/

bernardd

Exactly - it's a basic fact of geography - I'll get my geologist sister to give you the lecture if you like? The mid-west is far and away the most vulnerable - 8 of 10 lengthy weather waits / diversions I can remember were associated with DFW, ORD or STL. Also one each due to summer thunderstorms in DC and winter snow in Boston. No great surprises there.

Blumie

Don't threaten us with your geologist sister or I'm gonna get my geologist sister to kick your geologist sister's a$$.

bernardd

Ahhh, but I'll bet mine is younger and fitter than yours..... Nice to live dangerously at someone elses expense sometimes, ain't it?

Doppy

Four hours is too long? Did you folks read the article where they plan to return to the gate and cancel the flight? Would you rather wait two hours, go back to the gate and get stuck at the airport overnight (at your own expense), or wait three hours and then eventually get to your destination?

When flights are full and weather is bad, having your flight canceled could mean you're going to be sitting around at the gate for a day or two. No thanks.

oklAAhoma

Exactly. 4 hours or 24 hours (or 48 hours)? Having recently been stuck in BNA for an extra day, I concur that a 4 hour wait would be a much more tolerable option.

bernardd

Going back to the gate doesn't mean the flight is certain to cancelled - presumably they can un-load all the passengers and carry on baggage, then re-board at some time.

One potential issue is, I think, that the crew hours somehow don't count while the plane is on the taxiway, but do count as soon as they try a second departure from a gate. One scenario that wouldn't work is where the crew is on it's last trip of the day, they have 3 or 4 hours on the tarmac, return to the gate, then it's likely the crew wouldn't have the hours to complete the trip and if the airline hasn't got a spare crew, the flight could get cancelled. I'm sure there are other reasons, but on the whole I would guess the airline would prefer to take the plane to its destination if possible because of the issues of re-accomodating a lot of passengers, as well as getting aircraft out of position and fouling up the next days schedules.

hillrider

Going back to the gate also allows for emptying the toilet tanks and reprovisioning food and drinks.

old3

From today's Dallas Morning News:

AA sets limits on onboard waiting

After debacle, American will keep fliers on planes no longer than 4 hours


03:44 PM CST on Friday, February 9, 2007
By TERRY MAXON / The Dallas Morning News
[email protected]

American Airlines Inc. says it won't hold passengers on grounded aircraft more than four hours, a policy born from its December debacle in which thousands of passengers spent hours waiting for storms to pass inside crowded, parked planes.

American spokesman Tim Wagner said the Dec. 29 situation was so rare that American veterans can't recall a similar day when weather disrupted operations in such a way.

Even so, the Fort Worth-based carrier decided that in the future, four hours will be the maximum they would hold a flight before deciding to cancel it and unload the passengers.

"It's a rule now," Mr. Wagner said. "It's a rule that may never be used again, though."

Passengers stuck on plane over 8 hours

A prolonged series of thunderstorms disrupted operations at Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport from midday through late evening on the Friday between Christmas and New Year's Day, when American's airplanes were filled with holiday travelers.

American's operations managers diverted 121 American and American Eagle flights to other airports, and other flights taxied away from gates at originating airports and sat while waiting for D/FW weather to improve.

Officials said they didn't cancel the flights for hours on Dec. 29 because they expected the storms to abate. Instead, thunderstorms kept re-forming and passing over North Texas, and thousands of passengers were kept waiting on parked airplanes.

A number of passengers caught on those flights – particularly from several flights that were diverted to Austin and sat on the ground for eight hours or longer – are pressing Congress to pass laws protecting passengers from recurrences.


Other changes

In addition to the four-hour policy, American is making changes at its systems operations control center in Fort Worth to better handle diversions and make sure officials are aware when passengers' wait times are building up.

The airline is creating a position to oversee diversions and help schedule flights to get passengers back to its connecting hubs. It is developing automation tools to warn managers when passengers have been on the ground a long time. The carrier said it also was "reviewing all procedures related to customer handling and make appropriate changes as needed."


Passengers' treatment

Stranded passengers had criticized the airline for how it handled passengers after the flight cancellations, with inadequate staffing at airports, poor communications about what was going to happen next and not enough help while they were waiting.

Mr. Wagner said American was reluctant to cancel flights that day because it didn't want to strand the thousands of passengers, knowing that it would have a hard time finding seats for them over the holiday weekend.

He said 4,600 customers on 67 planes sat more than three hours on Dec. 29, a good portion of whom were kept on board for more than four hours.

American is sending apologies and vouchers of up to $500 to passengers who were subjected to waits of three hours or more on the ground.

nako

See this thread on the first page:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=658374

Mike