Originally Posted by WRCSolberg
(Post 22892137)
LAX is already considered a "cornerstone" hub.
Jim |
Originally Posted by lhl12
(Post 22894865)
In the past (before AA embarked on its "Cornerstone" strategy) BOS was a much bigger focus city for Old American, but wasn't sufficiently profitable (which led to AA cutting way back there).
When AA cut back in BOS, it opened an opportunity for B6, who has done a great job of taking full advantage of the vacuum.
Originally Posted by lhl12
(Post 22894865)
With the merger, and with new AA's reduced cost structure, it might now make sense for AA to try to compete more aggressively with B6. This sort of competition would probably be for point-to-point service to the largest non-hub cities (of any airline) in the US. This might include places like AUS, FLL, CLE, etc.
Originally Posted by lhl12
(Post 22894865)
However BOS probably doesn't make sense as a typical domestic connecting hub city, because it is at the extreme northeastern corner of the US. The only domestic traffic that might make sense to hub out of BOS would probably be second tier cities in New England, upstate NY and PA. Presently many of these destinations are served out of US's hub in PHL, so adding service out of BOS might cannibalize the PHL existing hub's position.
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Originally Posted by FWAAA
(Post 22895518)
Agreed - and aren't there already a bunch of US Airways Express flights to BOS from New England, upstate NY and PA? |
Originally Posted by MAH4546
(Post 22895829)
Yes - flights to Buffalo, Harrisburg, Pittsburgh, Richmond (VA), Rochester and Syracuse.
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Originally Posted by BoeingBoy
(Post 22895250)
It's certainly a cornerstone, but my impression (which could certainly be wrong) is that it isn't a true hub but similar to MIA - a convenient point for international connections (TPAC for LAX) but not the flights to enough domestic destinations to be a true domestic hub rellying instead on AS to fill the west coast part of that role. DFW/ORD and now PHX fll the domestic role where LAX doesn't have non-stop service.
Jim I've always wondered where the line is between hub and cornerstone; this is helpful LAX has precious little international service anyway. GRU, LHR, PVG, NRT. Cabo. Anything else? QF and LAN add a few destinations not served by AA. The majority of AA's LAX operations seem to be domestic. So perhaps that's the definition of a cornerstone. Lots of domestic and some international O/D (which LA has in spades anyway), plus a handful of domestic (Hawaii comes to mind) and international connections. Suggests that BOS ought also then count as a cornerstone for NewAA; too far out of the way for most domestic connections but enough O/D - and who knows, perhaps a bit more international too in its future? Please? The rest of this is probably repeating the obvious... MIA to me counts as a true hub. Yes an international hub but a hub nonetheless to the Caribbean and Latin America. I don't think of a hub as having to have a ton of domestic "hub" activity - as long as it serves as a connection point from one region to another. JFK is a wierd one; tons of O/D but also nontrivial hub activity from the West Coast to Europe and LatAam. ORD, DFW, CLT, PHL, PHX are domestic hubs in the true sense of the word; they all have some international (if not intercontinental) service. |
Originally Posted by lhl12
(Post 22896192)
Presumably new AA would look at all these routes (and perhaps some new ones) as part of a rationalization of their existing footprint. For example, some obvious possible additions would be Burlington (VT) and Albany (NY). There are others as well, but only if AA wants to grow BOS at the expense (to some degree) of PHL.
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Originally Posted by scnzzz
(Post 22896371)
^
I've always wondered where the line is between hub and cornerstone; this is helpful Therefore, we have focused our domestic network around five cornerstone markets. New York, Chicago, Dallas/Fort Worth, and Los Angeles are the four largest U.S. population centers, and we have a strong network into those cities from many parts of the country. We've also focused operations in Miami, which is uniquely the gateway from North America to Central and South America. They seem to simply be using "cornerstone" as a synonym for "hub". |
Originally Posted by jsieds
(Post 22897666)
US had service to ALB and a few places in ME until this year. There probably were other northeast cities served in the not too distant past as well.
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Originally Posted by cbn42
(Post 22897732)
I don't think there is any difference. From the AA website:
Therefore, we have focused our domestic network around five cornerstone markets. New York, Chicago, Dallas/Fort Worth, and Los Angeles are the four largest U.S. population centers, and we have a strong network into those cities from many parts of the country. We've also focused operations in Miami, which is uniquely the gateway from North America to Central and South America. They seem to simply be using "cornerstone" as a synonym for "hub".
Originally Posted by scnzzz
(Post 22896371)
LAX has precious little international service anyway. GRU, LHR, PVG, NRT. Cabo. Anything else? QF and LAN add a few destinations not served by AA.
Originally Posted by scnzzz
(Post 22896371)
The majority of AA's LAX operations seem to be domestic. So perhaps that's the definition of a cornerstone. Lots of domestic and some international O/D (which LA has in spades anyway), plus a handful of domestic (Hawaii comes to mind) and international connections.
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Originally Posted by BoeingBoy
(Post 22895250)
It's certainly a cornerstone, but my impression (which could certainly be wrong) is that it isn't a true hub but similar to MIA - a convenient point for international connections (TPAC for LAX) but not the flights to enough domestic destinations to be a true domestic hub rellying instead on AS to fill the west coast part of that role. DFW/ORD and now PHX fll the domestic role where LAX doesn't have non-stop service.
Jim AA officially considers it a hub, so that's what I'm going to go with. |
I'm wondering about revised service at BUF. pmAA has 4 145's to ORD and pmUS has rj's to PHL, DCA, BOS and 4 mainlines to CLT. now that they're out of STAR, wouldn't a non-stop to DFW or PHX make sense? This might recapture the traffic UA was lifting via mainline aircraft via DEN and ORD.
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Originally Posted by usaw1
(Post 22900373)
I'm wondering about revised service at BUF. pmAA has 4 145's to ORD and pmUS has rj's to PHL, DCA, BOS and 4 mainlines to CLT. now that they're out of STAR, wouldn't a non-stop to DFW or PHX make sense? This might recapture the traffic UA was lifting via mainline aircraft via DEN and ORD.
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Thanks, I was also wondering if retasking a CLT mainline to PHX might work rather than a new flight. As was mentioned by others on here, PHX is an O/D market on its own and the western connections are a plus. WN also flies non-stop once a day.
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Originally Posted by WRCSolberg
(Post 22900258)
AA officially considers it a hub, so that's what I'm going to go with.
For airlines that have international, and especially intercontinental operations as well as domestic, I consider a true hub as having domestic and international connections and for U.S. carriers more than 50% domestic connections given that all of them have much larger domestic operations than international. By contrast, I call an airport used by a carrier for mostly international to domestic connections as a gateway. That's what I'd call MIA for AA - a gateway to the U.S. for those coming to or leaving this country. At the other end, there are airports where an airline has almost 100% domestic connections either by choice or because they don't have international operations. I'd call those domestic hubs although WN uses the "focus city" terminology instead of "hub". Then we have "cornerstone", apparently partly PR to mean the anchor of the network from the original meaning of the first stone laid in a foundation with the remaining stones laid in reference to the cornerstone. Hence MIA and DFW, each unique in several ways, are both cornerstones. It'll be interesting to see what happens with the "cornerstone" terminology under Parker now that the network has 9 instead of 5 "cornerstones". Jim |
Here's what new AA says about its operations in the recent 10-K:
The Company has primary hubs in Charlotte, Chicago, Dallas/Fort Worth, Los Angeles, Miami, New York City, Philadelphia, Phoenix and Washington, D.C. For the most part, I agree with BoeingBoy's characterization of the various hubs; some are fairly comprehensive and serve as both domestic connecting hubs and international gateways (ORD, DFW, CLT and PHL) and others are more focused on their role as international gateway (LAX, JFK and MIA). In my book, a station is an AA "hub" if it features nonstop flights to places that aren't simply other AA hubs. In short, if it's not a "spoke," it looks like a hub. Whether new AA says it or not, it's clear that BOS is a "focus city." I believe that it's the largest station for new AA that isn't on the list of hubs above, and features some nonstop flights beyond just to other AA hubs. |
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