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ARCHIVE: US LCC & AMR / AA Takeover / merger Rumors and Discussion (consolidated)

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Old Feb 14, 2013, 9:50 am
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The AA - US merger was approved by AMR creditors and the boards of directors of both airlines on 13 Feb 2013, and announced the 14th.

There is no further speculation about whether the merger will occur; all that is pending is approval from the bankruptcy court and the regulatory authorities.

American Airlines and US Airways approve merger: just the facts, please outlines the facts we know;

AA - US Merger Agreement / Announcement Discussion (consolidated) is the thread for discussion of the announced merger.
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ARCHIVE: US LCC & AMR / AA Takeover / merger Rumors and Discussion (consolidated)

 
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 8:13 am
  #3661  
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Originally Posted by JDiver
The unions? That could be interesting, given how Parker has not been able to resolve Pilot and FA issues with the "East-West" divides in seven years, and now adding AA (and some TW) employees is going to fix it? So far, I've heard words and offers, but if it's not engraved in stone (or board endorsed contractual agreements) I am not a believer they're actually automatic winners in a US - AA reverse takeover.
Parker hasn't tried to solve the problem - smartly telling the unions that it's a union issue and they need to sort it out according to their rules. It has actually benefited him and the airline. His "inability" has been a very smart move, IMHO.

Originally Posted by TPJ
And the name is US Airways not US Air...
The name is US Airways Group, Inc. If you're going to be pedantic, do it correctly.

It's also not American, AA, US, TW, USA, etc., etc. Whatever.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 8:37 am
  #3662  
 
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Originally Posted by GadgetFreak
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 6_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/536.26 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/6.0 Mobile/10B143 Safari/8536.25)



That is really the bottom line - for passengers. The only real question is how bad will it be. I'm guessing horrific but hope I'm wrong. US seems to me to be Southwest with bad customer service.
For AA FF members it will get worse, case in point: those who uses Intl transpacific flights, it will definitely get a whole lot worse and not likely to improve. AA oneworld is already limited to mainly CX and Japan with a few AA routes to Asia. Now with US Airways having to drop from Alliance and join oneworld, that just means more US FF members having to fight for already limited seats on oneworld.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 8:48 am
  #3663  
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Originally Posted by sharka
For AA FF members it will get worse, case in point: those who uses Intl transpacific flights, it will definitely get a whole lot worse and not likely to improve. AA oneworld is already limited to mainly CX and Japan with a few AA routes to Asia. Now with US Airways having to drop from Alliance and join oneworld, that just means more US FF members having to fight for already limited seats on oneworld.
Or OneWorld carriers continue to expand capacity in Asia (particularly through the AA-JL JBA)????? Why are you assuming that the current Asian route network is stagnant. The fact that AA is growing and gaining more passengers would more logically lead to a reason to more aggressively expand capacity.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 9:08 am
  #3664  
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Originally Posted by GadgetFreak
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That is really the bottom line - for passengers. The only real question is how bad will it be. I'm guessing horrific but hope I'm wrong. US seems to me to be Southwest with bad customer service.
Since when does WN fly TATL? And with the same model of C seat that CX uses, to boot?

(Also, bagging on WN is sort of a tradition here on FT, but really, they're quite different from a legacy- AA and US have more in common than WN and any legacy.)
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 9:11 am
  #3665  
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Originally Posted by Dr. HFH
Gee, I don't know. Judging from posts on FT, there is a reasonably healthy demand for US-BKK service; and I bet that single plane service would have an advantage, even with a TYO stop. I'd sure love to have the opportunity to use my SWUs on that 6-7 hour flight between BKK and NRT. But where in the U.S. to originate?
I agree there's healthy demand, and it's apparent that between DL, UA/NH and JAL, that demand is probably being met from Tokyo. Perhaps there's room for an AA flight as well, and if joint venture partner JAL didn't already fly three times a day from Tokyo to BKK (one from HND and two from NRT), then AA might have to consider it. Plus the four daily flights that CX flies from HKG.

There's really no rational business case for AA metal to duplicate the JAL network from Tokyo, as those seven daily flights (from Tokyo and HKG) provide plenty of top-shelf premium seats for the business traveler spending OPM. (The desire to upgrade cheap fares with SWUs or miles isn't a very compelling business case). Sure, I'd love it if my SWUs would get me into a big seat on my N or Q fare for those last 2,500 to 3,000 miles to BKK or SIN or KUL or MNL etc.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 9:12 am
  #3666  
 
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Originally Posted by sts603
Or OneWorld carriers continue to expand capacity in Asia (particularly through the AA-JL JBA)????? Why are you assuming that the current Asian route network is stagnant. The fact that AA is growing and gaining more passengers would more logically lead to a reason to more aggressively expand capacity.
Yes, but are they going to focus on 'strengthening their strengths' and consolidating their ASM's on their current fortress/cornerstones (Plus Latin America / Europe)?

Or do they focus on a weakness (Asia) and dump a lot of money in to trying to improve their position TPAC?

Short term, I think they will have too much on their plate to try and put a lot of energy and money in to Asia. Short term, is there anything they can do with OneWorld/Alliances that would strengthen their network to Asia? (or is this already maxed out with AA's legacy relationships with Asian carriers?)

Longer term, USAA has to see this as a glaring weakness that (I think) they would want to address with more of their own metal.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 9:13 am
  #3667  
 
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I just keep wondering why......why Doug Parker as the defacto CEO of the potentially merged company.
Cuz he "wanted it more?"
Why wouldn't Horton just stay? Or the board pick a new leader?
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 9:24 am
  #3668  
 
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Originally Posted by JBEagle1000G
I just keep wondering why......why Doug Parker as the defacto CEO of the potentially merged company.
Cuz he "wanted it more?"
Why wouldn't Horton just stay? Or the board pick a new leader?
Because Doug played the political game better than Tom. Doug got out in front of the process, communicated what he thought would be best for both airlines, and sold the unions on it. Tom had the better long-term plan, but it didn't play well with the bondholders or the unions.

At the end of the day, AA's management took a risk in taking the airline through BK and assuming it would be able to lead it out of BK, and lost. There is no such thing as a risk-free gamble, and Tom is learning that the hard way this week.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 9:28 am
  #3669  
 
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Originally Posted by RealFan
Tom had the better long-term plan,
Can you add more detail or link me to more info on this?

Did he really have a better plan, or was it just a straw man to put AA in a better bargaining position?
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 9:34 am
  #3670  
 
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Originally Posted by travelinmanS
Please name a recent merger in the USA, in any industry, which benefited consumers.
Disney/Pixar.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 9:45 am
  #3671  
 
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Originally Posted by travelinmanS
Please name a recent merger in the USA, in any industry, which benefited consumers.
AT&T with T-Mobile...

...oh, wait.

Never mind!
--woodstock
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 9:56 am
  #3672  
 
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Originally Posted by BrewerSEA
Disney/Pixar.
With all due respect, I couldn't disagree more.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 9:57 am
  #3673  
 
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Originally Posted by travelinmanS
Please name a recent merger in the USA, in any industry, which benefited consumers.
Sirius/XM - allowed 2 floundering competitors to merge, creating a financially viable entity.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 10:03 am
  #3674  
 
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Originally Posted by diver858
Sirius/XM - allowed 2 floundering competitors to merge, creating a financially viable entity.
if only someone can come up with a way to merge all three remaining
airlines(UA, DL and the new AA-US)...
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 10:05 am
  #3675  
 
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Originally Posted by sts603
But airfares had to go up for the industry to be able to sustain itself.

And this is just a curiosity question - what benefits did 1Ks lose? I'm aware of the terrible system integration, bad customer service, and issues with Tens of Dollar upgrades post-merger but I wasn't aware that 1Ks actually had tangible benefits cut.
On paper, the 1K benefits stayed the same or even improved a bit (like the absurdity of now being able to get E+ seats for eight traveling companions). In practice, though, the new PeopleExpress mentality of everyone being equal has so diluted many of the benefits that travel for a 1K is no longer efficient or stress-free.

Check-in desks, priority security lines, boarding groups and priority lanes, and previously-dedicated phone agents have all been expanded to include nearly every elite and credit card holder, bringing much of the 1K travel experience down to a level that's worse than the old Premier Executive. Also, the aggressive selling of premium seats for whatever UA can get means that upgrade rates have plunged dramatically for many 1Ks.

These changes don't seem to have helped UA's profitability at all, while they have degraded service for many of the customers they were supposed to help. One can only hope that Parker picks up on this and doesn't go down the same path.

Edit: I should add that 1Ks did lose our two confirmed regional upgrades per quarter in conjunction to moving to a CO-style unlimited upgrade program (which in fact does exactly the opposite of what you might expect from the name!).

Last edited by NiceLanding; Feb 13, 2013 at 10:15 am
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