UAPremierExec

... I think this is old news. Plus, the Germans wouldn't let LH take over DE when they already have EW under their wings. And SN. And LX. Oh, and OS.

Waitlisted

sfozrhfco

Things are definitely not looking good and unfortunately, once panic sets in people tend to stop booking for fear they will lose their money which just exacerbates the problem. This is what happened with WOW. Once people stop booking tickets and the creditors are looking for payments with little revenue coming in to cover it, the bottom falls out. Some people in the UK articles are worried about holidays they booked for the summer of 2020 on a debit card. It is understandable in some ways that the financial picture is presented as better than it is to keep the revenue coming in but it also turns out to be very deceptive when people find out later the company knew all along that they wouldn't survive and took people's money anyway. Would be best to book with a credit card that has a good record of getting money back in the event of a liquidation when attempting travel on Condor until the dust settles. As we have seen with several European airlines in the recent past, once they fail, they close up shop with no warning and leave people to fend for themselves.

notquiteaff

jiburi

Knowing Ive got a flight scheduled for this Monday, I'm definitely concerned. With BBC and others reporting financial crisis at Thomas Cook, it feels like they won't make it to the weekend. Am hoping I'm wrong.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-46...eporting-story

https://aeronauticsonline.com/thomas...-out-of-deals/

UA Fan

The airline section is doing well right?

sfozrhfco

Does it matter if the whole company has to liquidate? That would be like saying Horizon is doing great but the AAG has to liquidate. Obviously one controls the other so if the parent collapses it is not like a tiny piece of the company is just going to operate as normal. They could easily just sell off the pieces after the collapse and give whatever they get to the share/bond holders and leave the passengers to figure things out. Whoever takes the assets could fly those routes, eliminate a competitor and raise prices, or move the assets to somewhere more beneficial to the buyer. Would you feel fully secure if the ALK stock went down to 12 cents when the economy was not in a severe recession?

notquiteaff

sfozrhfco

The EU is the not the US which let DL/AA/UA etc carry forward losses to avoid paying corporate income taxes for years and allows for restructuring that enabled those carriers to pay pennies on the dollar to creditors and still to this day underfund their pensions by billions to give them unfair advantages over other carriers which did not go through that process. Wow, Primera, Cobalt, Germania, FlyBMI, Air Berlin were all in business one day and shut down completely the next. The UK has a tax which people buying packages through Thomas Cook and other companies pay to insure people in the event of a liquidation but that does not apply to passengers just buying air fares alone. Thus anybody just buying airfare will be at the very bottom of the barrel when it comes to finding an alternative. Once these companies get to the point that they can't pay their bills, you find yourself landing at the destination and the creditors decide to seize the plane or you have to use your personal credit card if you want the plane filled with fuel. You are not going to get much warning. Once the creditors see their money is at risk, they grab whatever assets the company has to secure their investments--whatever the consequences. Given that we are entering the summer and many people have non refundable packages they already purchased--they should have some revenue coming in--but if they have another bad month or two and their stock is worth nothing as it is--the writing will be on the wall. They complained that Brexit was the cause of some of their problems and it looks like that mess will now continue on indefinitely. Can they get a sale through fast enough to save the company? That is anybody's guess--but given the choice--it would probably not be worth the risk of finding yourself stranded if you are able to go on a more stable carrier.

brentyb

Hmmmm...We have a flight this Sunday, and back the following Sunday.

Should I be worried? Articles seem to have conflicting information as to the immediacy of the possible closure.

sfozrhfco

sfozrhfco

notquiteaff

sfozrhfco

Only because they had already worked out an agreement to distribute their assets. In this case they are only flying because they are getting 300 million pounds in loans but it is contingent on getting whatever the lender expects to get through the sale of the airlines. If the bids are too low, they don't get the loan and then they start to spin out of control. This is a leisure travel company relying mostly on package tour sales. Several similar companies have liquidated in the recent past leaving people stranded. Of course there is no way of knowing on exactly what the time line is going to be, if there are no buyers for the assets at a price the lenders are willing to take and they have no money to operate, it will go belly up. The only thing that would take time is if there were an agreement to sell to deal with the asset transfer process. At this point, nobody knows how it will play out and if it will be a long drawn out process or if we wake up and find out that the company no longer exists. Given this scenario, if you have the choice, why get in the middle of this if you can avoid it?

sfozrhfco

https://www.theguardian.com/business...doomed-airline

This is one of the big leisure airlines which suddenly disappeared and stranded over 100,000 people. There have been others since.