Account Suspensions/Closures on Accusations of Fraud/Brokering
May 7, 2015, 12:06 am
#76
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 9
They just sent me a document that I need to sign in order to restore my account. I am not a big fan of the language surrounding this document as it makes me sound like I actually violated ANY of their vague T&C. At the same time, the language in this document is so poorly worded that it sounds like they are acknowledging that they made an error but don't want to publicly admit it. Here is the full text:
Dear Mr. XXXX :
As you may know, we have placed a hold on your Mileage Plan account that prevents you from redeeming miles. We enacted this hold based on our determination that you bought, sold or bartered award tickets in violation of the Mileage Plan Conditions of Membership. In order to preserve the superior benefits currently offered to Mileage Plan members, we cannot allow third parties to market mileage awards outside of the auspices of the Mileage Plan program. If you believe this determination to be in error, please contact Alaska Airlines Customer Care at (800)-654-5669.
Please understand that your mileage balance remains intact and you may continue to accrue miles. However, before we can reactivate your account for redemption activity, we require you to acknowledge below that you have read the Mileage Plan Conditions of Membership and agree to abide by all those terms (as they may be amended by Alaska from time to time) as long as you remain a Mileage Plan member. We reserve the right to deactivate your Mileage Plan account, void all or part of your mileage balance, and/or revoke your elite status if you engage in future activity that violates the Conditions of Membership.
We will reactivate your account within ten days of our receipt of your signed and dated acknowledgment. Return the letter at your convenience.
Sincerely,
[Name redacted per FT Rules]
Fraud Supervisor,
They want me to sign:
ACKNOWLEDGEMENT
I hereby acknowledge that I have read the Mileage Plan Conditions of Membership and agree to abide by such terms as a condition of membership in the Alaska Airlines Mileage Plan program.
Dated this __ day of _____, 2015.
Signature: ____________________________
While I dislike the fact that they are insinuating that I have done ANYTHING wrong with what their T&C are, I have no problems signing the actual acknowledgement that I read the T&C... but I STILL have not committed any violations of the T&C and they have not even said that I have -- they are saying that they suspected I did and that's why they locked my account.
If I actually broke any T&C I'm going to guess they wouldn't actually restore anything. But I guess it's too much to just say that I never did anything wrong and that this was their mistake. I just re-read their entire T&C again and nowhere does it say I can't redeem this for family... but being that their second email to me said that they didn't like that I was redeeming it for others (even though they're my family), I guess if I want to use my miles again I have to just play it safe and only use it for myself
Dear Mr. XXXX :
As you may know, we have placed a hold on your Mileage Plan account that prevents you from redeeming miles. We enacted this hold based on our determination that you bought, sold or bartered award tickets in violation of the Mileage Plan Conditions of Membership. In order to preserve the superior benefits currently offered to Mileage Plan members, we cannot allow third parties to market mileage awards outside of the auspices of the Mileage Plan program. If you believe this determination to be in error, please contact Alaska Airlines Customer Care at (800)-654-5669.
Please understand that your mileage balance remains intact and you may continue to accrue miles. However, before we can reactivate your account for redemption activity, we require you to acknowledge below that you have read the Mileage Plan Conditions of Membership and agree to abide by all those terms (as they may be amended by Alaska from time to time) as long as you remain a Mileage Plan member. We reserve the right to deactivate your Mileage Plan account, void all or part of your mileage balance, and/or revoke your elite status if you engage in future activity that violates the Conditions of Membership.
We will reactivate your account within ten days of our receipt of your signed and dated acknowledgment. Return the letter at your convenience.
Sincerely,
[Name redacted per FT Rules]
Fraud Supervisor,
They want me to sign:
ACKNOWLEDGEMENT
I hereby acknowledge that I have read the Mileage Plan Conditions of Membership and agree to abide by such terms as a condition of membership in the Alaska Airlines Mileage Plan program.
Dated this __ day of _____, 2015.
Signature: ____________________________
While I dislike the fact that they are insinuating that I have done ANYTHING wrong with what their T&C are, I have no problems signing the actual acknowledgement that I read the T&C... but I STILL have not committed any violations of the T&C and they have not even said that I have -- they are saying that they suspected I did and that's why they locked my account.
If I actually broke any T&C I'm going to guess they wouldn't actually restore anything. But I guess it's too much to just say that I never did anything wrong and that this was their mistake. I just re-read their entire T&C again and nowhere does it say I can't redeem this for family... but being that their second email to me said that they didn't like that I was redeeming it for others (even though they're my family), I guess if I want to use my miles again I have to just play it safe and only use it for myself
Last edited by jackal; May 7, 2015 at 4:23 am Reason: Redacting name of non-executive employees as per FT Rules
May 7, 2015, 7:57 am
#77
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: SEA
Programs: AS 75K
Posts: 759
I think i'm flagged because if I'm booked on something and I look for similar flights, i get a message stating that i cant even search because i have an itin for the same city pair same day. So i cant see if better options have opened up without going through the change flights.Change flights doesn't seem to give as many options as new booking.
May 7, 2015, 8:01 am
#78
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: HH Diamond, Marriott Gold, IHG Gold, Hyatt something
Posts: 33,544
Don't sign something you don't agree to, or admit to something you haven't done. Take your case to the press, the AS Facebook pages, Twitter, etc.
If you have, indeed been bartering, selling, etc, then take the cheese, redeem them for yourself, and be done with it.
If you have, indeed been bartering, selling, etc, then take the cheese, redeem them for yourself, and be done with it.
They just sent me a document that I need to sign in order to restore my account. I am not a big fan of the language surrounding this document as it makes me sound like I actually violated ANY of their vague T&C. At the same time, the language in this document is so poorly worded that it sounds like they are acknowledging that they made an error but don't want to publicly admit it. Here is the full text:
Dear Mr. XXXX :
As you may know, we have placed a hold on your Mileage Plan account that prevents you from redeeming miles. We enacted this hold based on our determination that you bought, sold or bartered award tickets in violation of the Mileage Plan Conditions of Membership. In order to preserve the superior benefits currently offered to Mileage Plan members, we cannot allow third parties to market mileage awards outside of the auspices of the Mileage Plan program. If you believe this determination to be in error, please contact Alaska Airlines Customer Care at (800)-654-5669.
Please understand that your mileage balance remains intact and you may continue to accrue miles. However, before we can reactivate your account for redemption activity, we require you to acknowledge below that you have read the Mileage Plan Conditions of Membership and agree to abide by all those terms (as they may be amended by Alaska from time to time) as long as you remain a Mileage Plan member. We reserve the right to deactivate your Mileage Plan account, void all or part of your mileage balance, and/or revoke your elite status if you engage in future activity that violates the Conditions of Membership.
We will reactivate your account within ten days of our receipt of your signed and dated acknowledgment. Return the letter at your convenience.
Sincerely,
[Name redacted per FT Rules]
Fraud Supervisor,
They want me to sign:
ACKNOWLEDGEMENT
I hereby acknowledge that I have read the Mileage Plan Conditions of Membership and agree to abide by such terms as a condition of membership in the Alaska Airlines Mileage Plan program.
Dated this __ day of _____, 2015.
Signature: ____________________________
While I dislike the fact that they are insinuating that I have done ANYTHING wrong with what their T&C are, I have no problems signing the actual acknowledgement that I read the T&C... but I STILL have not committed any violations of the T&C and they have not even said that I have -- they are saying that they suspected I did and that's why they locked my account.
If I actually broke any T&C I'm going to guess they wouldn't actually restore anything. But I guess it's too much to just say that I never did anything wrong and that this was their mistake. I just re-read their entire T&C again and nowhere does it say I can't redeem this for family... but being that their second email to me said that they didn't like that I was redeeming it for others (even though they're my family), I guess if I want to use my miles again I have to just play it safe and only use it for myself
Dear Mr. XXXX :
As you may know, we have placed a hold on your Mileage Plan account that prevents you from redeeming miles. We enacted this hold based on our determination that you bought, sold or bartered award tickets in violation of the Mileage Plan Conditions of Membership. In order to preserve the superior benefits currently offered to Mileage Plan members, we cannot allow third parties to market mileage awards outside of the auspices of the Mileage Plan program. If you believe this determination to be in error, please contact Alaska Airlines Customer Care at (800)-654-5669.
Please understand that your mileage balance remains intact and you may continue to accrue miles. However, before we can reactivate your account for redemption activity, we require you to acknowledge below that you have read the Mileage Plan Conditions of Membership and agree to abide by all those terms (as they may be amended by Alaska from time to time) as long as you remain a Mileage Plan member. We reserve the right to deactivate your Mileage Plan account, void all or part of your mileage balance, and/or revoke your elite status if you engage in future activity that violates the Conditions of Membership.
We will reactivate your account within ten days of our receipt of your signed and dated acknowledgment. Return the letter at your convenience.
Sincerely,
[Name redacted per FT Rules]
Fraud Supervisor,
They want me to sign:
ACKNOWLEDGEMENT
I hereby acknowledge that I have read the Mileage Plan Conditions of Membership and agree to abide by such terms as a condition of membership in the Alaska Airlines Mileage Plan program.
Dated this __ day of _____, 2015.
Signature: ____________________________
While I dislike the fact that they are insinuating that I have done ANYTHING wrong with what their T&C are, I have no problems signing the actual acknowledgement that I read the T&C... but I STILL have not committed any violations of the T&C and they have not even said that I have -- they are saying that they suspected I did and that's why they locked my account.
If I actually broke any T&C I'm going to guess they wouldn't actually restore anything. But I guess it's too much to just say that I never did anything wrong and that this was their mistake. I just re-read their entire T&C again and nowhere does it say I can't redeem this for family... but being that their second email to me said that they didn't like that I was redeeming it for others (even though they're my family), I guess if I want to use my miles again I have to just play it safe and only use it for myself
May 7, 2015, 8:37 am
#80
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Pacific Northwest
Programs: UA Gold 1MM, AS 75k, AA Plat, Bonvoyed Gold, Honors Dia, Hyatt Explorer, IHG Plat, ...
Posts: 16,859
May 7, 2015, 9:04 am
#81
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
Read the acknolwedgement you are being asked to sign. It does not require you to admit any wrongdoing, including the findings AS made and details in its letter. It simply acknowledges that you have read, understand and agree to the t&c. Nothing more.
That's because AS could care less whether you agree with its findings. It doesn't need that in order to suspend or terminate your account. Thus, it does not ask you to admit.
It's your choice. Sign and agree to the rules, including the specific restriction on miles use which goes beyond the ordinary AS terms, and enjoy some travel. Or, don't sign and move on.
As to the multiple itinerary issue, this is the product of improved software pioneered for AA., Inventory "spoilage" caused by impossible bookings is costly to air carriers, so they have spent money on stopping it. You may not book (for cash or award) tickets which could cannot possibly use.
That's because AS could care less whether you agree with its findings. It doesn't need that in order to suspend or terminate your account. Thus, it does not ask you to admit.
It's your choice. Sign and agree to the rules, including the specific restriction on miles use which goes beyond the ordinary AS terms, and enjoy some travel. Or, don't sign and move on.
As to the multiple itinerary issue, this is the product of improved software pioneered for AA., Inventory "spoilage" caused by impossible bookings is costly to air carriers, so they have spent money on stopping it. You may not book (for cash or award) tickets which could cannot possibly use.
May 7, 2015, 9:42 am
#82
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Pacific Northwest
Programs: UA Gold 1MM, AS 75k, AA Plat, Bonvoyed Gold, Honors Dia, Hyatt Explorer, IHG Plat, ...
Posts: 16,859
Where in
They want me to sign:
ACKNOWLEDGEMENT
I hereby acknowledge that I have read the Mileage Plan Conditions of Membership and agree to abide by such terms as a condition of membership in the Alaska Airlines Mileage Plan program.
Dated this __ day of _____, 2015.
Signature: ____________________________
ACKNOWLEDGEMENT
I hereby acknowledge that I have read the Mileage Plan Conditions of Membership and agree to abide by such terms as a condition of membership in the Alaska Airlines Mileage Plan program.
Dated this __ day of _____, 2015.
Signature: ____________________________
In other words, if the OP signs it and then books a ticket for friend or family as a gift, which term did the OP violate?
May 7, 2015, 10:07 am
#83
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
AS holds all of the cards here. Playing cute is ill-advised.
May 7, 2015, 10:31 am
#84
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 567
1) Does AS have the legal right to choose to "adjust" or "customize" their general T&Cs for different members, as long as they don't run afoul of discrimination laws or other such legal issues? Best for a legal professional to opine on that one. While I don't know of any T&C restrictions on redeeming for someone other than yourself, if AS has specifically asked a specific member to specifically avoid doing XXX, then if I wanted to stay in their good graces I would avoid doing XXX. Is this fair? I don't know, and it may not appear so because members are generally allowed to do it but in this case if I were told not to do something and wanted to do it, I would get express permission from the Fraud Supervisor or someone who has the authority, and have them clearly document their authorization of this activity if necessary on a case by case basis, especially if it is clearly not restricted by the T&C. Like... "I want to book a ticket for my spouse using my miles. Considering the issues I have had in the past, I just want to make sure I can do so, as it is allowed under the T&C which I have agreed to". I would still be very cautious, and even only think of booking tickets for someone else if you absolutely had no other option. Not worth getting back on their naughty list.
2) Make friends with them. This may not be the most palatable option but they have something which you want, not the other way around. Whether you did or did not do something, or AS goofed up or didn't, whatever you did landed you on their radar and they are offering you an option to "reset" their relationship with you. Turn this into a positive and you will be happier.
May 7, 2015, 11:57 am
#85
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Pacific Northwest
Programs: UA Gold 1MM, AS 75k, AA Plat, Bonvoyed Gold, Honors Dia, Hyatt Explorer, IHG Plat, ...
Posts: 16,859
I read and know that. But IMO AS isn't play fair games here. They ask the OP to acknowledge/accept the T&C, but want him/her to play by different rules than outlined in those T&C. I don't know why you seem to be defending this.
May 7, 2015, 2:02 pm
#86
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Delta, BC
Posts: 1,646
Well it is AS's position that rules were broken and the other party that they weren't. Stalemate, court-action or sign and move-on. Whether the rest of us believe one, the other or neither is immaterial as no one is giving sworn testimony here.
May 7, 2015, 3:11 pm
#87
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: LAX
Posts: 10,912
material or not but we should be very much interested in what AS is up to - most of us do spg transfers, book awards for family, buy miles etc etc... as i noted earlier 'i dont care since it's not me' attitude is not very wise...
May 7, 2015, 4:48 pm
#88
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 567
As I mentioned in a couple of posts above, I was wondering if Alaska does not have the prerogative to choose to "adjust" or "customize" their general T&Cs for different members, as long as they don't run afoul of discrimination laws or other such legal issues. So if they ask a certain member not to do XXX, then that XXX becomes part of the member's T&C.
Do airlines reserve the legal right to add an exclusive clause to specific members of their FF program or change the T&C for general members when applied to a specific member? Then that's what AS did to the two impacted posters by asking them not to book awards for others and shut down one OP's account when OP didn't comply with their "revised" T&C.
Do airlines reserve the legal right to add an exclusive clause to specific members of their FF program or change the T&C for general members when applied to a specific member? Then that's what AS did to the two impacted posters by asking them not to book awards for others and shut down one OP's account when OP didn't comply with their "revised" T&C.
May 7, 2015, 7:45 pm
#89
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
1. Air carriers don't set the terms, they offer them and the customer accepts them. In this case, if the customer wants to use his miles, he must use them for himself. That's his choice. AS could simply shut the account down and bar the customer. So, this is a middle ground.
2. This whole thread simply proves the marketers right. People will grovel and debase themselves for some crumbs. And then agree to extra limitations on who gets the crumbs.
2. This whole thread simply proves the marketers right. People will grovel and debase themselves for some crumbs. And then agree to extra limitations on who gets the crumbs.
May 7, 2015, 8:53 pm
#90
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 9
*UPDATE #2* I sent in a signed copy that I had read the T&C and they've reinstated the account. It sucks, I was going to consider booking some flights for my honeymoon but now I'm going to have to jump through hoops to transfer miles from my SPG to my Fiancee's SPG account (we share the same address so it's allowed by SPG) and then to her Alaska account.