Account Suspensions/Closures on Accusations of Fraud/Brokering
May 5, 2015, 11:41 pm
#61
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: West Coast, USA
Programs: Skywards Platinum
Posts: 3,747
Looks like AS may have hired somebody out of AA's fraud prevention department....
With respect to AA, when they closed accounts down they usually had the perpetrator soup to nuts guilty. I would be surprised if AS didn't have the goods on whomever they are going after and shutting down accounts of.
We of course won't hear AS's side of the story, but in the case of the last guy's issues, I find it very hard to believe that they would shut down the account of somebody they can easily verify and has only booked fights in his name, save one or two.
What did AS say the reason was that they couldn't verify you from your passport and drivers license, that you had to offer up utility bills and other things? Did addresses or names not match?
With respect to AA, when they closed accounts down they usually had the perpetrator soup to nuts guilty. I would be surprised if AS didn't have the goods on whomever they are going after and shutting down accounts of.
We of course won't hear AS's side of the story, but in the case of the last guy's issues, I find it very hard to believe that they would shut down the account of somebody they can easily verify and has only booked fights in his name, save one or two.
What did AS say the reason was that they couldn't verify you from your passport and drivers license, that you had to offer up utility bills and other things? Did addresses or names not match?
May 6, 2015, 1:36 am
#62
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1
Account closed for transferring SPG into Alaska?
Hi, everyone, I opened an Mileage Plan account on Jan. 2014 and transferred 60K SPG points from my OWN SPG account on the same day. Because of the SPG daily transfer limit, I transferred another 40K from my OWN SPG account the next day. After a few days, both transfer posted in my AS account. I planned to use the miles but did not do that (didn't even attempt to do that). Early 2015, I tried to log into the account and found the account has been locked. I called the CS and was told to send a copy of my id. So I did that in March. Then I got the email saying my account was closed. It didn't specifically mention the transfer. Instead it said that "The information on your ID doesn't match the information you provided for your Mileage Plan account.", which is obvious not true.
I think they are tightening up in investigating fraud activity and closed my acccount by mistake. Does anyone has any experience or suggestion to rectify this? Any Alaska Airline Customer Relationship specialist on this forum? Any help will be highly appreciated.
I think they are tightening up in investigating fraud activity and closed my acccount by mistake. Does anyone has any experience or suggestion to rectify this? Any Alaska Airline Customer Relationship specialist on this forum? Any help will be highly appreciated.
May 6, 2015, 7:59 am
#63
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: HH Diamond, Marriott Gold, IHG Gold, Hyatt something
Posts: 33,544
I rarely fly AS, and even more rarely do I credit an AS flight to them. I do credit DL and other flights to them. This is allowed by their own rules.
If they unilaterally decide they don't like this behavior, close my account, and take my miles, it is certainly within the scope of their rules to do so. It is also within my rights to make a stink about it.
I repeat, it is despicable corporate behavior, and not in the spirit that I have known AS to be.
May 6, 2015, 8:05 am
#64
Join Date: May 2012
Location: DCA, lived MCI, SEA/PDX,BUF (born/raised)
Programs: Marriott (Silver/Gold), IHG, Carlson, Best Western, Choice( Gold), AS (MVP), WN, UA
Posts: 8,739
@apodo77 - Since when did their mileage plan become purely a frequent flyer program? If that was their intention, then they should only award points via revenue tickets on their metal. Instead, this calls into question the danger of accumulating miles via their Co-Branded BofA card, buying miles, or anything other than flying their airline.
I would totally sue, but at an estimated value per mile at 1 or 2 cents per mile that they would use for accounting purposes... the whole 150k balance is only worth $1500-3000. I'm guessing just the retainer on the lawyer will exceed that amount.
@azepine00 - yeah that's my point exactly. I've offered them more documentation than you would need to get a Driver's License, I can prove all my SPG statements. I can produce documentation for every single thing I have said here if it will help do anything but they've shown a disregard with wanting to work with me at all.
I wouldn't even care if they were just like "Look, your account isn't a winning proposition for us. We can't let you transfer any more points to it after you've used up your current miles", but they decided to ACCEPT my SPG transfer and then right away disable my account.
I would totally sue, but at an estimated value per mile at 1 or 2 cents per mile that they would use for accounting purposes... the whole 150k balance is only worth $1500-3000. I'm guessing just the retainer on the lawyer will exceed that amount.
@azepine00 - yeah that's my point exactly. I've offered them more documentation than you would need to get a Driver's License, I can prove all my SPG statements. I can produce documentation for every single thing I have said here if it will help do anything but they've shown a disregard with wanting to work with me at all.
I wouldn't even care if they were just like "Look, your account isn't a winning proposition for us. We can't let you transfer any more points to it after you've used up your current miles", but they decided to ACCEPT my SPG transfer and then right away disable my account.
What I would do in your letter to AS is include the records of your transactions in purchasing and transferring miles.
If they are insistent on closing out your account then you have an alternate legal action of theft/fraud by willing to accept purchase of your miles then canceling the account. So the only fair thing for them to do is refund you the money you paid and restoring the points you transferred from partners.
Based on what others said, if you did this purchase and then transferred points and then booked the ticket in a 72 hr period this would raise red flags. If this is something you slowly had built over the last 1-2 years, then your account should not have been flagged.
May 6, 2015, 8:42 am
#65
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Pacific Northwest
Programs: UA Gold 1MM, AS 75k, AA Plat, Bonvoyed Gold, Honors Dia, Hyatt Explorer, IHG Plat, ...
Posts: 16,859
Wirelessly posted (beckoa's BB: Mozilla/5.0 (BlackBerry; U; BlackBerry 9810; en-US) AppleWebKit/534.11+ (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/7.1.0.694 Mobile Safari/534.11+)
I'm thinking this might be key- international awards in premium cabins for others, especially when they don't share a last name. But I don't have any inside knowledge.
I'm thinking this might be key- international awards in premium cabins for others, especially when they don't share a last name. But I don't have any inside knowledge.
Where is the so-called power of social media here? Any influential bloggers jumping on this? Or would it disrupt the lucrative credit card sales?
May 6, 2015, 9:06 am
#66
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: NYC
Programs: Delta Gold, SPG Gold, HHonors Gold, UA Gold (status match)
Posts: 777
I was on the phone with AS the other day to handle a booking for me and the agent told me that she heard of flagging accounts for:
(1) People booking multiple options on the same day in premium cabins on partner airlines and then cancelling them at the last minute
(2) people doing the fly and buy miles and then cancelling the refundable ticket
I don't really know how (1) would be an issue but she said that people will often book a 1pm, a 3pm, a 7pm, etc. to have options open for itineraries and then cancel at the last minute. Edited to add that this specifically refers to premium award tickets.
Normal buying of miles, crediting miles from partner airlines, or earning miles allegedly should not be problematic.
Edited to add: It hardly makes sense to lock down accounts for people buying miles (that they sell at huge discounts) or transferring SPG points. Right? Maybe not?
I'm now sitting and stressing about a recently booked award. At what point is it safe to cancel my backup award?
(1) People booking multiple options on the same day in premium cabins on partner airlines and then cancelling them at the last minute
(2) people doing the fly and buy miles and then cancelling the refundable ticket
I don't really know how (1) would be an issue but she said that people will often book a 1pm, a 3pm, a 7pm, etc. to have options open for itineraries and then cancel at the last minute. Edited to add that this specifically refers to premium award tickets.
Normal buying of miles, crediting miles from partner airlines, or earning miles allegedly should not be problematic.
Edited to add: It hardly makes sense to lock down accounts for people buying miles (that they sell at huge discounts) or transferring SPG points. Right? Maybe not?
I'm now sitting and stressing about a recently booked award. At what point is it safe to cancel my backup award?
Last edited by floridagal23; May 6, 2015 at 2:34 pm
May 6, 2015, 9:07 am
#67
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 9
Looks like AS may have hired somebody out of AA's fraud prevention department....
With respect to AA, when they closed accounts down they usually had the perpetrator soup to nuts guilty. I would be surprised if AS didn't have the goods on whomever they are going after and shutting down accounts of.
We of course won't hear AS's side of the story, but in the case of the last guy's issues, I find it very hard to believe that they would shut down the account of somebody they can easily verify and has only booked fights in his name, save one or two.
What did AS say the reason was that they couldn't verify you from your passport and drivers license, that you had to offer up utility bills and other things? Did addresses or names not match?
With respect to AA, when they closed accounts down they usually had the perpetrator soup to nuts guilty. I would be surprised if AS didn't have the goods on whomever they are going after and shutting down accounts of.
We of course won't hear AS's side of the story, but in the case of the last guy's issues, I find it very hard to believe that they would shut down the account of somebody they can easily verify and has only booked fights in his name, save one or two.
What did AS say the reason was that they couldn't verify you from your passport and drivers license, that you had to offer up utility bills and other things? Did addresses or names not match?
Just to be clear, I have NEVER bought points from Alaska. All my points have been either from flying their metal or SPG transfer.
By the way I've NEVER had a problem with AA and booking every type of reward possible with them. Ditto with BA which must have something like 1 out of 20 trips I book with them being on their own airline vs short haul AA flights or 25k Cathay JFK to YVR flights or AB 40k NYC to Germany flights or 25k BOS to DUB Aer Lingus flights (all pre-devaluation)
In fact, because of the flexibility of SPG points, I maintain active accounts with pretty much all the major ones like Alaska, AA, BA, ANA, JAL, Krisflyer, etc and I have NEVER had this happen except with Alaska.
May 6, 2015, 9:30 am
#68
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: YVR, HNL
Programs: AS 75k, UA peon, BA Bronze, AC E50k, Marriott Plat, HH Diamond, Fairmont Plat (RIP)
Posts: 7,834
They kept asking for more and more documentation. I then countered them by giving them every possible for of documentation possible so they couldn't ask for any more. Then when they realized they couldn't just keep blaming lack of documentation, I got that email about closure of my account due to their T&C which blanket covers everything and gives them full carte blanche to do whatever they want.
Just to be clear, I have NEVER bought points from Alaska. All my points have been either from flying their metal or SPG transfer.
By the way I've NEVER had a problem with AA and booking every type of reward possible with them. Ditto with BA which must have something like 1 out of 20 trips I book with them being on their own airline vs short haul AA flights or 25k Cathay JFK to YVR flights or AB 40k NYC to Germany flights or 25k BOS to DUB Aer Lingus flights (all pre-devaluation)
In fact, because of the flexibility of SPG points, I maintain active accounts with pretty much all the major ones like Alaska, AA, BA, ANA, JAL, Krisflyer, etc and I have NEVER had this happen except with Alaska.
Just to be clear, I have NEVER bought points from Alaska. All my points have been either from flying their metal or SPG transfer.
By the way I've NEVER had a problem with AA and booking every type of reward possible with them. Ditto with BA which must have something like 1 out of 20 trips I book with them being on their own airline vs short haul AA flights or 25k Cathay JFK to YVR flights or AB 40k NYC to Germany flights or 25k BOS to DUB Aer Lingus flights (all pre-devaluation)
In fact, because of the flexibility of SPG points, I maintain active accounts with pretty much all the major ones like Alaska, AA, BA, ANA, JAL, Krisflyer, etc and I have NEVER had this happen except with Alaska.
May 6, 2015, 9:48 am
#69
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 9
No, although SPG is my hotel branch of choice, most of my SPG miles come from co-branded Amex SPG. I only have one account with both Alaska and SPG. Have never had anything but amazing service from SPG. They seem to value the fact that I am loyal to them
May 6, 2015, 11:18 am
#70
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Pacific Northwest
Programs: UA Gold 1MM, AS 75k, AA Plat, Bonvoyed Gold, Honors Dia, Hyatt Explorer, IHG Plat, ...
Posts: 16,859
You could also see if Christopher Elliott is interested in your story. He isn't a big fan of loyalty programs (to put it mildly), and he might be interested in helping you with getting your account reinstated if he can tie your story to his narrative that loyalty programs are a scam....
Or contact your local TV station's consumer reporter.
May 6, 2015, 4:00 pm
#71
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 9
*UPDATE* In the interest of full transparency, even though I have not contacted Alaska Air since I posted my experience in this thread, I've just received an email from Alaska Air offering to restore my account as long as I agree to only ever book tickets for myself. The exact wording:
Thank you for contacting Alaska Airlines. Please note that we you signed up for
your Alaska mileage you signed up for a personal account, and so far your
account is being used for others to travel. Each person must have their own
account, and if your account continues to be used for others it will be closed
without notice.
.....[terms and conditions]
If you agree to the Terms & Conditions of our membership you can resend you ID
and I will review it, and release your account.
I have sent them my ID again and will see what they do and update the thread accordingly. I guess TL;DR -- air out a company's dirty laundry when they have no basis for accusing you of fraud in public and they will be more open to actually working things out with you.
Thank you for contacting Alaska Airlines. Please note that we you signed up for
your Alaska mileage you signed up for a personal account, and so far your
account is being used for others to travel. Each person must have their own
account, and if your account continues to be used for others it will be closed
without notice.
.....[terms and conditions]
If you agree to the Terms & Conditions of our membership you can resend you ID
and I will review it, and release your account.
I have sent them my ID again and will see what they do and update the thread accordingly. I guess TL;DR -- air out a company's dirty laundry when they have no basis for accusing you of fraud in public and they will be more open to actually working things out with you.
May 6, 2015, 4:25 pm
#72
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Pacific Northwest
Programs: UA Gold 1MM, AS 75k, AA Plat, Bonvoyed Gold, Honors Dia, Hyatt Explorer, IHG Plat, ...
Posts: 16,859
So where in the Terms and Conditions they sent you (and asked you to agree to) does it state that you cannot book award tickets for family members? Did you now get special T&Cs?
<goes to read the T&Cs...>
<goes to read the T&Cs...>
May 6, 2015, 6:04 pm
#73
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: QLA
Programs: SBUX Gold
Posts: 14,507
*UPDATE* In the interest of full transparency, even though I have not contacted Alaska Air since I posted my experience in this thread, I've just received an email from Alaska Air offering to restore my account as long as I agree to only ever book tickets for myself. The exact wording:
Thank you for contacting Alaska Airlines. Please note that we you signed up for
your Alaska mileage you signed up for a personal account, and so far your
account is being used for others to travel. Each person must have their own
account, and if your account continues to be used for others it will be closed
without notice.
.....[terms and conditions]
If you agree to the Terms & Conditions of our membership you can resend you ID
and I will review it, and release your account.
I have sent them my ID again and will see what they do and update the thread accordingly. I guess TL;DR -- air out a company's dirty laundry when they have no basis for accusing you of fraud in public and they will be more open to actually working things out with you.
Thank you for contacting Alaska Airlines. Please note that we you signed up for
your Alaska mileage you signed up for a personal account, and so far your
account is being used for others to travel. Each person must have their own
account, and if your account continues to be used for others it will be closed
without notice.
.....[terms and conditions]
If you agree to the Terms & Conditions of our membership you can resend you ID
and I will review it, and release your account.
I have sent them my ID again and will see what they do and update the thread accordingly. I guess TL;DR -- air out a company's dirty laundry when they have no basis for accusing you of fraud in public and they will be more open to actually working things out with you.
May 6, 2015, 6:54 pm
#74
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Pacific Northwest
Programs: UA Gold 1MM, AS 75k, AA Plat, Bonvoyed Gold, Honors Dia, Hyatt Explorer, IHG Plat, ...
Posts: 16,859
May 6, 2015, 8:52 pm
#75
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: BOS/ORH
Programs: AS 75K
Posts: 18,323
I think i'm flagged because if I'm booked on something and I look for similar flights, i get a message stating that i cant even search because i have an itin for the same city pair same day. So i cant see if better options have opened up without going through the change flights.Change flights doesn't seem to give as many options as new booking.