Last edit by: eponymous_coward
To try to make sense of what's all happening between AS and DL, the idea arose during the recent Alaska do to create a compendium in the wiki of the various stages of the current spat. Please add your knowledge where you can!
Timeline of events:
**proposed format for new route announcements**
mm/dd/yy [date of announcement] Airline XXX-YYY [new vs changed] [frequency] dd/mm/yy [date of service/change] Airline Press Release link | FT thread/post link
Timeline of events:
**proposed format for new route announcements**
mm/dd/yy [date of announcement] Airline XXX-YYY [new vs changed] [frequency] dd/mm/yy [date of service/change] Airline Press Release link | FT thread/post link
- 2008: Delta and Northwest merge, Delta's staff takes over relationship with Alaska
- 06/05/09 Alaska ATL - SEA New 1x daily 23/10/09 AS Announcement | FT Thread
- 2011: Alaska allegedly (using data gleaned from codeshare sales) tries to lower the ratio of the fare it pays Delta on codeshare itineraries
- 08/10/12: The infamous "joint" Seattle press conference where Delta CEO Richard Anderson announces they will ramp up international service in Seattle (AS CEO Brad Tilden stays quiet in the background) -- DL Announcement | FT Thread
- 01/11/12 Alaska SLC - SEA New 2x daily 04/04/13 AS Announcement | FT Thread
- 25/02/13 Delta announces resumption of SEA-ANC, new SEA-LAS. Hard to find press release/news, but this site mentions it.
- 02/05/13 Alaska ATL - PDX New 1x daily 26/08/13 AS Announcement
- 01/10/13 Delta SEA - LAS Increase from 1x - 3x daily 06/01/14 -> 5x daily 01/04/14 DL Announcement | Post #1
- 01/10/13 Delta SEA - SFO New 6x daily 29/03/14 -> 7x daily 05/06/14 DL Announcement | Post #1
- 01/10/13 Delta SEA - LAX Increase from 5x - 7x daily 05/06/14 DL Announcement |Post #1
- 05/11/13 Delta SEA - SAN New 4x daily 02/06/14 DL Announcement | Post #77
- 05/11/13 Delta SEA - ANC Increase 1x to 2x daily summer seasonal 05/06/14 DL Announcement | Post #90
- 05/11/13 Delta SEA - PDX New 4x daily 02/09/14 DL Announcement | Post #77
- 06/12/13 Alaska SLC - PDX 09/06/14 AS Announcement | FT Thread
- 06/12/13 Alaska SLC - SAN 10/06/14 AS Announcement | FT Thread
- 06/12/13 Alaska SLC - LAX 11/06/14 AS Announcement | FT Thread
- 06/12/13 Alaska SLC - SJC 12/06/14 AS Announcement | FT Thread
- 17/12/13 Delta SEA - ANC 29/05/14 (increased from 2x-3x daily) Thread [link needed] DL Announcement
- 17/12/13 Delta SEA - JNU 29/05/14 Thread [link needed] DL Announcement | Post #268
- 17/12/13 Delta SEA - SJC 29/05/14 Thread [link needed] DL Announcement
- 20/12/13 Alaska SLC - BOI 16/06/14 New 1x Daily AS Announcement
- 20/12/13 Alaska SLC - LAS 16/06/14 New 2x Daily AS Announcement
- 20/12/13 Alaska SLC - SFO 18/06/14 New 1x Daily AS Announcement
- 10/02/14 Delta PHX - SEA 20/12/14 New 5x Daily CRJ-900 DL Announcement
- 10/02/14 Delta PSP - SEA 20/12/14 New 1x Daily CRJ-900 Winter Season DL Announcement
- 10/02/14 Delta TUS - SEA 20/12/14 New Saturday CRJ-900 Winter Season DL Announcement
- 10/02/14 Delta HNL - SEA 20/12/14 Increase 1x to 2x Daily 757-200/757-300 DL Announcement
- 11/02/14 Alaska DTW - SEA 04/09/14 New 1x Daily AS Announcement
- 11/02/14 Alaska MSY - SEA 12/06/14 New 1x Daily 737-800 AS Announcement
- 11/02/14 Alaska SEA - TPA 20/06/14 New 1x Daily 737-800 AS Announcement
- 26/02/14 Delta Delta changes SkyMiles to revenue based points/miles DL Announcement
- 28/03/14 Alaska BWI - SEA 02/09/14 New 1x Daily 737-800 AS Announcement
- 28/03/14 Alaska ABQ - SEA 18/09/14 New 1x Daily 737-800 AS Announcement
- 28/03/14 Alaska ATL - PDX 01/09/14 Discontinued 1x Daily 737-800 AS Announcement
- 17/03/14 Delta BOI - LAX 05/16/14 New 1x Daily E-175 DL Announcement
- 09/05/14 Alaska CUN - SEA 06/11/14 New 1x Daily 737-800 Seasonal AS Announcement
- 27/05/14 Delta GEG - SEA 03/11/14 New 4x Daily CRJ-700 DL Announcement
- 27/05/14 Delta SEA - YYC 03/11/14 New 2x Daily E-175 DL Announcement
- 27/05/14 Delta OGG - SEA 20/12/14 New 1x Daily 757-200 DL Announcement
- 27/05/14 Delta BZN - SEA 20/12/14 New Saturday E-175 Winter Season (Flight will op 1x Daily from 20/12/14-04/01/15) DL Announcement
- 27/05/14 Delta SEA - SJD 20/12/14 New Saturday A319 Winter Season DL Announcement
- 27/05/14 Delta PVR - SEA 20/12/14 New Saturday A319 Winter Season DL Announcement
- 27/05/14 Alaska Announces 11% increase in SEA flying for Spring 2015 AS Announcement
- 27/05/14 Alaska BOI - SEA 08/03/15 increase from 8x to 9x Daily Q400 AS Announcement
- 27/05/14 Alaska BOS - SEA 08/03/15 increase from 2x to 3x Daily 737-800/737-900 AS Announcement
- 27/05/14 Alaska ORD - SEA 08/03/15 increase from 3x to 4x Daily 737-800/737-900 AS Announcement
- 27/05/14 Alaska DEN - SEA 08/03/15 increase from 4x to 5x Daily 737 AS Announcement
- 27/05/14 Alaska FAI - SEA 08/03/15 increase from 3x to 4x Daily 737 AS Announcement
- 27/05/14 Alaska PSP - SEA 08/03/15 increase from 3x to 4x Daily 737 Seasonal AS Announcement
- 27/05/14 Alaska SEA - SMF 08/03/15 increase from 5x to 6x Daily 737 AS Announcement
- 27/05/14 Alaska LAX - SEA 08/03/15 increase from 12x to 13x Daily 737 AS Announcement
- 27/05/14 Alaska PDX - SEA 08/03/15 increase from 24x to 27x Daily Q400 AS Announcement
- 27/05/14 Alaska GEG - SEA 08/03/15 replace 2x Daily Q400 with 737 AS Announcement
- 27/05/14 Alaska SEA - SNA 08/03/15 increase from 7x to 8x Daily 737-700/737-800 AS Announcement
- 08/07/14 Alaska PDX - SJD 03/11/14 New 4x Weekly 737-800/737-900 Seasonal AS Announcement
- 08/07/14 Alaska PDX - PVR 04/11/14 New 3x Weekly 737-800/737-900 Seasonal AS Announcement
- 13/11/14 Alaska IAD - SEA 11/03/15 New 1x Daily 737-800/737-900 AS Announcement
- 14/11/14 Delta seeks 30 (!) gates at SEA Bloomberg story
- 19/11/14 Delta adds SEA-DEN/BOI/SMF/KTN/SIT Summer '15 DL Press Release | FT Thread
- 11/25/14 Alaska Adds SEA-MKE NEW daily E-175 starting July 1, 2015 AS Press Release
- 11/25/14 Alaska Adds SEA-OKC NEW daily E-175 starting July 1, 2015 AS Press Release
- 22/02/15 Delta Announces 717 service to operate on SEA-LAX/LAS/PHX flights DL Press Release and then pulls LAS/PHX service back to regional jets. LAX service remains on 737 equipment (Delta.com)
- 22/02/15 Delta Extends SEA-JNU to year round service using CRJ-900 outside of summer DL Press Release
- 22/02/15 Delta Extends SEA-FAI to year round service using E-175 outside of summer DL Press Release
- 22/02/15 Delta Extends SEA-PVR/SJD seasonal Saturday service to October 3, 2015 DL Press Release and then pulls it back to start December 19, 2015 (Delta.com)
- 22/02/15 Delta Adds 2nd SEA-PSP seasonal flight CRJ-700 starting December 19, 2015DL Press Release
- 22/02/15 Delta Increases seasonal SEA-TUS Saturday flight to Daily using CRJ-700 starting December 19, 2015DL Press Release
- 22/02/15 Delta Adds SEA-KOA NEW daily 757-200 starting December 19, 2015DL Press Release
- 10/03/15 Alaska Adds SEA-JFK NEW daily 737-800 starting September 16, 2015 AS Press Release
- 28/04/15 Alaska Adds SEA-BNA NEW daily 737-800 starting September 23, 2015 AS Press Release
- 28/04/15 Alaska Adds SEA-RDU NEW daily 737-800 starting October 1, 2015 AS Press Release
- 28/04/15 Alaska Adds SEA-CHS NEW 4x/weekly 737-800 starting November 16, 2015 AS Press Release
- 14/05/15 Alaska Announces Preferred Plus Seating options AS Press Release
- 26/05/15 Delta Adds SEA-BZN Daily year round CRJ-700 on Aug 1, 2015 DL Press Release
- 26/05/15 Delta Adds SEA-PSC NEW 3x/day CRJ-700 on Nov 1, 2015 DL Press Release
- 26/05/15 Delta Adds SEA-MCO NEW 1x/day 757-200 on Dec 19, 2015 DL Press Release
- 26/05/15 Delta Adds SEA-BOS NEW 1x/day 737-800 on April 4, 2016 DL Press Release
- 26/05/15 Delta Adds SEA-YYJ NEW 3x/day CRJ-700 on April 4, 2016 DL Press Release
- 26/05/15 Delta Announces end to SEA-HND (Tokyo Haneda) service effective September 30. Route authority to be transferred to American to operate Los Angeles - Haneda. Seattle Times
- 07/22/15 Alaska announces partnership with Hainan Airlines which will reduce dependence on Delta for traffic to/from Asia AS Announcement | FT Thread
- 08/05/15 Alaska announces Boardroom members can access American Admirals Club starting 15 Aug and on 17 Oct that Former US Airways flights will be eligible for earn and burn miles FT Thread
- 09/22/15 Alaska announces partnership with Icelandair Icelandair Announcement
- 10/22/15 Alaska Opens New North Satellite Boardroom. AS Press Release
- 10/22/15 Alaska Alaska announces codeshare agreement with Emirates. AS Press Release
- 12/18/15 Delta Adds SEA-MSO, SEA-BIL and SEA-YEG NEW with CRJ-900/700 equipment operated by Skywest Routesonline (MSO) Routesonline (BIL) Routesonline (YEG)
- 01/01/16 Alaska and Delta: no more reciprocal Board Room/Sky Club Benefits
- 04/04/16 Alaska Alaska Air Group announces acquisition of Virgin America (Pending Government Approval). AS Press Release
- 05/10/16 Alaska Announces Japan Airlines as new Mileage Plan Member and codeshare partner. AS Press Release
- 05/11/16 DL adds Shuttle Service to Seattle (SFO and LAX)
- 06/21/16 Delta Will switch SEA-LHR from Delta to Virgin Atlantic using 787-9 starting March 26, 2017. Delta's 767-300ER will be reallocated seasonally to a 4x/week service on PDX-LHR from May 26, 2107-Oct 29, 2017. DL Press Release
- 06/21/16 Delta Add SEA-SUN Daily Dec 21, 2016-Jan 2, 2017 and Saturday's only from Jan 7-Mar 25, 2017 with CRJ-700. Routesonline | Delta.com
- 06/29/16 Alaska Adds SEA-SBP (San Luis Obispo) Daily year round E175 operated by SkyWest on April 17, 2017. AS Press Release
- 07/13/16 Alaska Adding seasonal flights to SEA-SUN. Double Daily Q400 Dec 16-Jan 2 and an added Sat/Sun from Feb 18-Mar 26, 2017. AS Press Release
- 07/21/16 Alaska Increasing SEA-EWR to 3 Daily flights with 737 starting May 14, 2017. AS Press Release
- 07/21/16 Alaska Adds SEA-ICT (Wichita) NEW daily E175 operated by SkyWest starting April 13, 2017. AS Press Release
- 07/21/16 Alaska Adds SEA-IND (Indianapolis) NEW daily 737 starting May 14, 2017. AS Press Release
- 08/14/16 Delta Adds 2nd SEA-BOS Daily 737-800 starting June 8, 2017. DL Press Release | Routesonline
- 08/14/16 Delta Adds SEA-EUG NEW 3x daily CRJ-700 starting April 1, 2017. Routesonline
- 08/14/16 Delta Adds SEA-RDU NEW daily 737-800 starting June 8, 2017. Routesonline
- 08/31/16 Delta discontinues SEA-BIL nonstop flights. Delta.com
- 08/31/16 Delta discontinues SEA-JNU from year round to seasonal until May 19, 2017. Delta.com
- 09/05/16 Delta discontinues SEA-MSO and SEA-BZN nonstop flights. Delta.com
- 10/21/2016 Delta opens a beautiful, spacious, new lounge at SeaTac, further showing how uninspiring the Board Rooms are.
- 3/2/2020 Delta (re)adds SEA-LHR, adds SEA-CMH, SEA-DFW, more frequencies on existing routes. Delta.com
- Further chronology? Please add! Loss of benefits, etc.
DL Encroaches Further on AS' Turf - Master Thread
#1036
Join Date: Sep 2001
Programs: Alaska Tanzanite 100K
Posts: 3,858
But you have no proof that Alaska was ever even asked to join the "Skyteam Alliance". The rules may state that they can not give same recognition to non Skyteam members, but that doesn't mean that Alaska was asked to be a part of the alliance. Not saying that they would take the opportunity if asked, they may well not, but you don't have proof.
So -- then if you want "proof", call Joe Sprague or T. Zubeck and ask them "how many times have we been pressured into an alliance"..... and you may be a bit surprised. (Although T. may not discuss since he's not in alliances anymore).
Alaska has been pressured to make a decision on their alliances and align with one group over the other. Because Alaska will NOT join SkyTeam, we (MVP GOLDS) have had to have our status reduced below "Elite Plus" for Delta to remain compliant with a SkyTeam rule.
#1037
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: YYF/YLW
Programs: AA, DL, AS, VA, WS Silver
Posts: 5,956
Yes. Just go look at the SkyTeam website and see if they list their rules and governance requirements for members.
SkyTeam is wound MUCH tighter than OneWorld and Star Alliance. One of the more recent directives coming out of SkyTeam is that member airlines can NOT give the same recognition to non-SkyTeam airlines elite members.
I'm ONLY talking about the recent ELITE devaluation.
SkyTeam is wound MUCH tighter than OneWorld and Star Alliance. One of the more recent directives coming out of SkyTeam is that member airlines can NOT give the same recognition to non-SkyTeam airlines elite members.
I'm ONLY talking about the recent ELITE devaluation.
But I don't buy for a second that it's due to SkyTeam rules, again because of the Virgins.
(This post wound up dripping....)
#1038
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 5,959
This is an online message board.. kinda hard to provide proof. I appreciate the constant "jabs" about how I know things when I don't think I've been wrong.. yet.
So -- then if you want "proof", call Joe Sprague or T. Zubeck and ask them "how many times have we been pressured into an alliance"..... and you may be a bit surprised. (Although T. may not discuss since he's not in alliances anymore).
Alaska has been pressured to make a decision on their alliances and align with one group over the other. Because Alaska will NOT join SkyTeam, we (MVP GOLDS) have had to have our status reduced below "Elite Plus" for Delta to remain compliant with a SkyTeam rule.
So -- then if you want "proof", call Joe Sprague or T. Zubeck and ask them "how many times have we been pressured into an alliance"..... and you may be a bit surprised. (Although T. may not discuss since he's not in alliances anymore).
Alaska has been pressured to make a decision on their alliances and align with one group over the other. Because Alaska will NOT join SkyTeam, we (MVP GOLDS) have had to have our status reduced below "Elite Plus" for Delta to remain compliant with a SkyTeam rule.
I'm not jabbing at anyone, I'm just saying that you don't have any proof. Your conjecture is the same thing that people on other message boards have been guessing at but unless you have a direct link to either of the two that you've mentioned, and they're spilling company information to you (which I highly doubt), then your guesses are the same as everybody elses.... conjecture. Guesses. I have a strong suspicion that the two individuals you've mentioned above aren't running around telling everyone that Skyteam asked Alaska to become a member and Alaska declined. That would be a HUGE no-no.
#1039
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Mountain Time Zone
Programs: AS Million Miler/Marriott Lifetime Titanium/ IGH Ambassador
Posts: 5,999
As I posted earlier, what about Delta's relatively new and increasing recognition of VA and VS elites, which actually surpasses Delta's recognition of SkyTeam and their own elites in some ways (since VA elites get Sky Club access in conjunction with any DL flight, even domestic) in addition to granting Sky Priority etc.
This I actually will buy, indirectly. What seems likely to me is that the much-hyped big joint press release by DL and AS in Seattle of a few years ago that turned out to be nothing more than touting some already-announced DL long haul flights out of SEA was originally intended to be an announcement that AS was joining SkyTeam or otherwise making DL their exclusive domestic partner (dropping AA). Then AS backed out (or never did agree), and DL now thinks they're big enough to put the screws to a partner who isn't willing to be monogamous domestically. Is that what you're alluding to?
But I don't buy for a second that it's due to SkyTeam rules, again because of the Virgins.
(This post wound up dripping....)
This I actually will buy, indirectly. What seems likely to me is that the much-hyped big joint press release by DL and AS in Seattle of a few years ago that turned out to be nothing more than touting some already-announced DL long haul flights out of SEA was originally intended to be an announcement that AS was joining SkyTeam or otherwise making DL their exclusive domestic partner (dropping AA). Then AS backed out (or never did agree), and DL now thinks they're big enough to put the screws to a partner who isn't willing to be monogamous domestically. Is that what you're alluding to?
But I don't buy for a second that it's due to SkyTeam rules, again because of the Virgins.
(This post wound up dripping....)
I am sure that somewhere deep into a meeting awhile back there was an open and direct conversation between AS & DL regarding further ties and joining the SkyTeam alliance, and for me I have always been a supporter of AS joining an alliance due to my international travel. And I am sure AS looked them in the eye and respectfully declined. I have been in meetings like that and know how it goes and this whole thing is a classic case of the result!
AS has addressed this and their continued desire to remain "neutral"
#1041
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: YYF/YLW
Programs: AA, DL, AS, VA, WS Silver
Posts: 5,956
Delta doesn't own any of VA (Virgin Australia), though they have a joint venture. Delta does own 49% of VS (Virgin Atlantic). Obviously that has a lot to do with why Delta has reciprocal elite recognition with VS (though again, does not explain the older VA relationship). But it doesn't get around this purported SkyTeam rule prohibiting (or discouraging) such partnerships.
#1042
Join Date: Sep 2001
Programs: Alaska Tanzanite 100K
Posts: 3,858
I have to allude or point to publicly released information otherwise it will affect my job. Just as you may put your own job in jeopardy if you release security sensitive information about your airline -- so I do my best to only comment PUBLICLY what has been said publicly.
So... my sources, outside of the horses.
ATW
AvDaily (err.. Aviation Daily)
Regional Aviation News
interviews on Crankyflier.com
references/quotes on planebusiness.com
and airliners.net, climbto350.com, usaviation.com, and other forums are NOT the sources I'd quote.
So... my sources, outside of the horses.
ATW
AvDaily (err.. Aviation Daily)
Regional Aviation News
interviews on Crankyflier.com
references/quotes on planebusiness.com
and airliners.net, climbto350.com, usaviation.com, and other forums are NOT the sources I'd quote.
#1043
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: PDX
Programs: AS 75K, BW Plat, Marriott Gold, IHG Plat, Hilton Gold
Posts: 10,740
#1044
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend, Moderator, Information Desk, Ambassador, Alaska Airlines
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: FAI
Programs: AS MVP Gold100K, AS 1MM, Maika`i Card, AGR, HH Gold, Hertz PC, Marriott Titanium LTG, CO, 7H, BA, 8E
Posts: 42,957
Wirelessly posted (beckoa's BB: Mozilla/5.0 (BlackBerry; U; BlackBerry 9810; en-US) AppleWebKit/534.11+ (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/7.1.0.694 Mobile Safari/534.11+)
@5x a day...still small lift compared to QX.
Originally Posted by PDXPremier
#1045
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: JNU
Programs: HH D, AS MM/MVPG for life/AL, Awesome Wipes VIP Club, NEXUS, Hertz 5-Star Gold
Posts: 2,893
Sometimes that small lift is enough to make a tangible difference. DL's impending service to Juneau has lowered the RT fares almost $100 between June and September. Maybe the DL PDX-SEA service can compel a relatively like difference in that market.
#1046
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2001
Programs: DL 1 million, AA 1 mil, HH lapsed Diamond, Marriott Plat
Posts: 28,190
On April 15, DL announced the start of a 2nd daily LAX-GDL flight, although seasonal.
With GDS uploads this week, AS reduced frequencies LAX-GDL beginning in August.
*AS LAX-GDL AUG 2>1.7 SEP 2>1.0 OCT 2>1.0 NOV 2>1.0 DEC 2>1.5
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo....main/6059063/
DL press release: http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=20295&item=124420
With GDS uploads this week, AS reduced frequencies LAX-GDL beginning in August.
*AS LAX-GDL AUG 2>1.7 SEP 2>1.0 OCT 2>1.0 NOV 2>1.0 DEC 2>1.5
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo....main/6059063/
DL press release: http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=20295&item=124420
#1047
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: LON
Programs: AS MVPG, Marriott Titanium, UA Silver
Posts: 1,350
The Q400 is going to kill the CRJ-700/900 over that distance, too. Margins aren't the name of the game for DL in PNW regional flights. But, I guess that's not their main purpose, either.
#1048
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Mountain Time Zone
Programs: AS Million Miler/Marriott Lifetime Titanium/ IGH Ambassador
Posts: 5,999
#1049
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: PDX
Programs: AS MVP Gold 100K
Posts: 2,995
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 7_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/537.51.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/7.0 Mobile/11D167 Safari/9537.53)
DL is adding a fourth SEA-ANC frequency for the summer months.
DL is adding a fourth SEA-ANC frequency for the summer months.
#1050
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Anchorage, AK
Programs: Lifetime AS 1MM & MVPG, AS MVPG100K, AA, DL, HH-G
Posts: 8,260
I had an award ticket for mid-December ANC-SEA-MSP-MSY with the first two legs on AS and the last one on DL. Today that set of flights disappeared and were replaced by ANC-SEA-MSY, all on AS. That was not an option when I booked it, even though the SEA-MSY flights had been loaded. Anyone think it odd that AS has dropped my DL award flight? Just sayin'.......