DuckFlyer

I am 30 years old so I represent the "younger" generation and I am appalled by how many people on this forum think that it is okay to confirm U with an MVPG cert and then sneak around the system so that you don't have to deliver it!

Not only does it cut down on available upgrades for the rest of us but it is flat out unethical. If I confirm U with my certs then I voluntarily deliver it to the ticket agent even if they don't ask for it. I am glad that Alaska is finally going electronic on this... increases all of our upgrade odds.

Flame away but I am standing my ground on this.

Duck

OverThereTooMuch

I don't think anything good ever came from a thread on an internet forum discussing ethics

If you design a bad process, people will exploit it.

In at least one instance where I've used a cert, I attempted to hand it to the agent several times. She did not take it. I did not feel bad about it.

In another instance, I made less of an effort to hand the agent the cert (but still had it in my hand at the time I provided my ID), and only made one attempt. The agent did not take it. I did feel a little dirty But it didn't stop me from using that cert again.

DuckFlyer

Over There... I completely agree with you. If you try to give it to the agent and they make the decision to let it go then that is a bonus. I love it when that happens. However, you have to at least make the effort to deliver it.

Duck

baliktad

Is it unethical to knowingly sell 160+ tickets for a flight with only 156 seats? Is it unethical to charge outrageous "fees" for things that don't actually cost the company any money (eg change fees)? Is it unethical to cancel an entire ticket just because someone doesn't sit in the seat they paid for on the first leg?

Airlines are perfectly adept at instituting programs where they feel there is a business need. The paper certs have served AS a long time, and the process of moving from copyable slips to holograms to e-certs represents the level of risk AS is willing to take.

I always bring my paper cert to the airport when I check in and I am prepared to hand it over. If it's not collected by an AS agent, that's a pretty clear indication to me that AS doesn't feel it necessary.

Perhaps the reason only 4 certs are handed out is because AS accepts that there will be some level of reuse.

AS Flyer

I'm not saying airlines are pillars of society when it comes to serving up ethics. That said, I think much of what you are describing below are reactionary charges to things that were taking place that were costing companies money. For instance, over selling a flight. If everybody that bought a ticket, or made a reservation, actually showed up for their seat, there would be no need to oversell a flight. Airlines will make a reservation without actually requiring payment and then hold that seat up until departure. Once that seat leaves without a body in it the opportunity to sell that seat and make money on it is forever gone.

Charges for changing tickets: Airlines offer a wide range of fares. If your plans are solid and you don't anticipate changing them, you could purchase a fare that locks in your dates/flight times. If your plans change you have the opportunity make a change, albeit for a fee. Airlines are selling a product and you have a choice what kind of product you are buying up front.

sduk27

I'm with DuckFlyer on this one! In regards to baliktad comments, when it comes to a passenger changing a reservation there is a cost to the airline. And thus they have to re-coup these costs somehow. However, I generally do not agree to the level which they have set their change fees. I think $75 to change a reservation when the original fare amount (excluding tax) is in the region of $89 is gauging the customer.

In regards to overselling, I cannot say that it's an unethical practice since they clearly state that this may happen in their conditions of contract. In fact we all benefit from it with lower fares.

eponymous_coward

And VDBs.

hgdf

Exactly, the fee is completely arbitrary. They certainly don't pay me anything when they make a schedule change.

A more equitable approach would be to charge a percentage of the ticket price, say 15% with a $100 maximum. They could also subtract the change fee from the difference in fare when you buy-up to a more expensive ticket.

I also think it would be nice if AS would waive the fee for companions traveling with MVPGs on the same PNR. It would probably save them a few resources if I didn't have to go through the silliness canceling the ticket, buying a new one, and then calling to have the original ticket reissued for myself on a future flight. I've noticed that in practice, as an MVPG, if you do pay the change fee for someone else and then email them to complain about it, they'll usually issue you a $75 credit as a way of appeasing you.

ANC

I doubt its happening that often. Just because 20 of 200 members have it happening on here is a drop in the bucket. If it is happening that often then its quite frankly the CSA job to collect it. Like above I tried to give a certificate more than 1 time or even 2 times and the CSA said no keep it, perhaps there are times when U space is still available or something. I dont know but Ive only ever heard of elites getting by without using it. Everybody I know who used 1 as non status had it immediately asked for but I could be wrong. I too believe they have it already planned on the books that not all will be collected every time. You aint "sneaking" around the system. The system requires you to checkin at the airport. The error message you receive says that the reservation requires airport assistance. It does not say this reservation requires airport assistance to collect your certificate. I again think they purposely upgrade you without collecting it. 2 including me within 7 peoples posts have already attempted to give the certificate and were told to keep it. Must be plenty more then. Its a two way thing here so you cant lay all the blame on the traveler. Besides that there are times the phone agents confirm your upgrade into U and dont even notate that its for a certificate upgrade. Its not our job to do theirs. People will find work arounds for electronic ones too, its human nature unfortunately. Now if you go to the extent of laminating a certificate as was said in the recent lunch then yes thats a bit beyond the pail. The airline industry as a whole has created that type of consumer. Not so much AS but there are several airlines who make it practically an unspoken mission statement objective to screw the customer any possible way they can. In turn for that the industry as a whole gets lumped together including AS. So when a consumer can punch back rest and get their paybacks rest assured they are. AS isnt really unethical but there are several that truely are. For instance it took an act of Congress for some to behave over tarmac delays....and thats just one issue of many. Right or wrong thats why its done. 2 wrongs dont make a right but 2(certs) left does

maokh

If the agent knowingly refuses to accept a certificate, who really cares. I have better things to do than to harass ticket agents over coupon technicalities. I many times have had these in hand and they just dont care.

With one gold reporting the other day that she burns them in her fireplace at home because she doesn't know how to use them, I do not think U inventory is at risk here.

ANC

nor do I

BW Flyer

This may be OT here, but I totally agree with you that charging $75 is gauging customers (we won't know if the process would actually costs $75, but it seemed high to me and many other FFs). I have no problem for AS to recoup costs for customers changing tickets, but the practices AS and other airlines doing here is preying on customers who have to (voluntary or involunatry) make changes after the tickets were bought, and the excuse from AS and other airlines that since the customers made a choice to buy cheaper non-refundable tickets in order to take a chance on not changing their later travel plans is pretty lame, unless each change actually costs the airlines $75+.

maokh

I think the number of occurrences of non-collection of the cert is completely blown out of proportion. I gave these away late last year to friends/family, and they all got collected. Im sure there are times when an agent either doesn't know they need to collect it, or have a line a mile long and other things to worry about.

there were jokes at the gold lunch about gold cert abuse, and its apparently not much of a problem. They are rolling out an electronic system mainly due to the fact that a) the passes fall apart and need to be laminated b) many gold are not aware they can transfer these to people or use them themselves c) golds have no idea what the heck U class even is

davew-krdm

In 2009, I had 0 out of 4 certs collected (2 SEA-OAK and 2 SEA-ATL). I guess I kinda understand not collecting them on a flight that goes out with empty seats in F (the two OAK flights), but I was surprised about ATL.

I was never tempted to re-use the certs. Just not my style! I don't mind them going to e-certs as personally I hated storing them and remembering to take them when I needed to.

Dave

burkestr

I cannot when remember when, in November-ish, I did not hand over some pre-owned certs to the Boardroom to divvy out on pure diligence.

Always thought it was Kharma. Nada mas.

b