are you saying this because of the high First business class capacity on the wide bodies? Again, none of it seems to be true because Hawaiian doesn�t give complementary automatic upgrades on anything other than inter island flights

only once the loyalty programs are merged, and there is one elite status, which gets complementary upgrades everywhere, will any of this matter, but currently anything operated by Hawaiian metal including the Seattle Anchorage a 330 flight needs to be upgraded with either Hawaiian miles Hawaiian cash or with a Hawaiian upgrade certificate because Alaska will not complementary upgrade you those not yet at least

I'm saying this cuz as of March 19, there are no SFO direct flights to HNL on AS. SEA will still have AS direct flight to HNL for the foreseeable future. Hence 0% SFO upgrade to HNL on non existent AS flights compared to AS possible upgrade at SEA.

Eh, usually there is a good selection left.

If you are asking how much more flying on AS metal was; $225. However, the amount I didn't pull out of my wallet, more than offset that. There were too many unknowns flying an AS codeshare on HA metal.

AS was pretty quick in adding in HA flights as a "partner" and assigning AS codeshares. Great! As an AS MVP100K, what benefits do I receive flying HA as a partner? I would be privileged with EQM, apparently 2�RDM, no complimentary Y+ at booking ($141 charge) or window seat ($51 charge), no waiver for checked baggage fees, no lounge access, and zero chance of an upgrade. Partner flights booked on Alaska don't earn MM miles. AS advises that HA Lifetime miles will combine with AS Lifetime miles, but what happens to the partner miles? Are they accounted for, too, or do they go into the abyss?

When status matching was implemented, I matched my AS MVPG100K to HA Platinum. Super! Now, if I could change my AS number to HA number I would get some benefits on HA. My HA upgrade certificates to F hadn't arrived, so a possible upgrade wasn't even available. Y+, a chance there may be a seat available at check-in. Apparently, 2�RDM as a Platinum; already 2.5�RDM on AS for 100K.

At least the lifetime miles will be accounted for with HA and will be combined with AS. The EQM will be combined between the two as well, but if they are combined as they were in the status match, passing a milestone doesn't unlock it.

I called AS to see how much it would be to change my flight to the AS redeye the night before, HNL-SEA-PHX and was quoted an additional $585. AS was asking $659 for just SEA-PHX in Main.

I started looking at fares for at all the cities within 700 miles of PHX; SFO, SJC, LAX, PSP, BUR, LAS, SAN... and then the availability to use an AS 4.5K award on AA to close the gap. SAN was the winner. The fare was already N or higher & all three flights had U availability, so no additional upfare to apply a GGU. The fare difference was $225 all confirmed in F at booking. I flew SAN-PHX on an award. Only F was available, so 9K RDM and my 21st flight in F.

Net effect: I received all my AS MVPG100K benefits, confirmed in F at booking with a single GGU, earned 4170 EQM, 10,425 RDM (I value those at $208.50), earned 4170 miles towards MM status and saved a hotel night in HNLand a few EQM on the award. Instead of 2�RDM, an aisle seat in the middle three seats near the lav at the back of the plane & a lot of uncertainty.

So, as stated, I have zero interest in flying HA as a partner. Until they are folded into AS, operating under one AOC, with commensurate benefits in a unified loyalty program, I will refrain.

If you have your AS FF# in your PNR with HA flights, I wish you the best. On what basis are you hoping for an upgrade on HA flights? HA FF# in the PNR and either HA upgrade certificates or Miles transfered from AS?

James

100% agree....especially if you haven't received your HA upgrade codes (like me and you), I too am shying away from any HA bookings. Those AS flights via SAN are even helpful for those of us in PDX--I got a reasonably good deal on all AS metal PDX-SAN-HNL and confirmed both segments in F with a single GGU....guaranteed F and more EQMs/RDMs.

Price is not just money - time and aggravation
1. I would choose a daytime flight on HA over an AS redeye on the same route, even if it means giving up an F upgrade.
2. Similarly, I would choose a nonstop over a long layover or short connection - particularly if they are different reservations; miss the connection and run a significant risk of losing any upgrades.

This situation is temporary, I only expect one instance this year, will suck it up, take the HA nonstops SAN-OGG in May, live to fight another day.

My longer-term concern is what Y+ upgrade situation will look like once operations and award programs are merged; will ALK keep the current HA upgrade policies on HA flights?

If they do, I will utilize my MM status and fly UA E+. PC / E+ at booking is not negotiable for me.

But I doubt that that is their plan.

I would be shocked if they did. The people running AS are not idiots. The people running HawaiianMiles, I'm not so sure. I can construct a justification for some of their weird and uncompetitive policies if I really work at giving them the benefit of the doubt, but the weakness of the elite program and the total failure to use the elite program to try to generate more overseas and international business from captive customers of their (former) interisland monopoly never made any sense at all.

And ultimately, I think some of those Y+ seats in the widebodies will be removed for a true PE cabin.

James

That is true. The A330 cabins will be updated, likely to include J, W, Y+ and Y. I don't expect to see one until 2026, but maybe AS will surprise us.

ALK management turned U space in to unicorns by monetizing F upgrades, HA management was successful doing the same for Y+; how can you be so sure ALK management will reduce such a revenue stream to benefit elites?

What revenue stream? I would be surprised if HA is generating more premium coach seat revenue from its elites than AS does from its. Where HA probably does do well is mileage upgrades (and cc spend to drive same). If AS were looking to adopt something from HA, that would be a better place to start, but I doubt we’ll see that when AS just eliminated its own.

I think the folks who are most impacted by this are those who need to travel to Hawaii frequently. I travel there because I found a good deal or U space to use GGUs but I don't HAVE to....if AS metal isn't an option then I just won't go because I frequently use companion certificates on those routes besides the obvious lack of upgrades, PC seating, etc. It will be interesting to see whether or not AS sees any appreciable drop in passenger traffic on HA operated flights.
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My expectation is that HA is selling Y+ to leisure customers, leaving the crumbs for elites.