frogster

I never once stated the 10% (although I think it could be accurate once you count markets in continental Europe but not EU 28 like Switzerland, Russia, Turkey etc. as well) or that Heathrow has to be discounted (London definitely is the biggest market in the EU).
My point was simply that the market size couldn’t be determined with the figures presented in that table

BlackBerryAddict

https://www.thalys.com

irishguy28

There's more to France than Lille and Paris....but on the other hand, the Eurostar may finally fetch up in Rotterdam and Amsterdam next year...

irishguy28

I never said that you were the person that made that claim - but that was the claim I was refuting when you joined in:

WilcoRoger

It does seem to make sense for the LH group - LH, LX, SN, LO, OS are not just feeder airlines for longhaul ...

With the demise of AB, OW (and OW pax!) will have the same problems (again) in Europe as it has in Greater China. There it's only CX on the periphery

SK2751

And I have agreed that you are right a long time ago, clarifying that I am less concerned with IAG business decisions, and more with the future of flying market in the continental Europe. Watching from the side, and enjoying how you fiercely discuss something I don't care much for

BlackBerryAddict

Except that by that time maybe nobody wants to travel between these two countries anymore....

But my point was that it is easier to travel between Holland and France staying on the ground - train but even more so car. Besides, if you drive to France you can take the aardappels and the karbonaadjes with you

intuition

What is the general view on revenue tickets in the longer run?

The brief statements I've seen talks about AB for now will be flying all flights as scheduled. Roughly, for how long can one expect this to be the case?

IIUC none of the options currently discussed is to keep AB alive, so for tickets in the farther future we already know there will not be an AB around to fulfil the contracts. Are there any talks about someone assuming any responsibility for those future tickets (ie new operator taking over some routes and accepting the liability for already sold ticket) or is it rather certain that any solution will be a clean slate for new operators (ie new operator taking on some of the the aircraft leases, slots and so on, but nothing else)?

ralfkrippner

IMO it's somewhat save up untill mid/end October with only a few cancellations up untill then.

After Lufthansa / Eurowings / Austrian / easyjet / Ryanair / TUI / Condor / Etihad touristic newco taking over routes or parts of the airline it will probably depend on the route.

A good scenario might be the longhaul routes going to EW or DE, touristic short and medium routes to easy/TUI/DE and some business route pairs to EW/LH/OS.

If decissions are made short term IMO there is a good chance that even most tix for flights in the mid- and long-term might be honoured as part of the takeover agreement between the new provider of the route and the insolvency procurer to lessen the debt towards ticket holders..

We now have to wait and see.

thbe

The chance for that is very, very close to 0%.

If you have a ticket already, you can hope, that your flight is before AB runs out of money.

To book a new ticket now means to take the high risk of a total loss. Maybe not a problem for flights taking place tomorrow, but for flights in November or December, that risk may be higher than 90%.

If you really need to book an AB flight now, don't book it at AirBerlin. If possible, you can book that flight on another ticket stock than 745- at another airline (OW, EYP), if possible. That way you will maybe not get your flight, but in that case you will get your money back.

seawolf

I think it's really too early to come to that conclusion. If bidders are breaking up the airline are are only bidding for slots and planes (AB employees out of a job), then yeah, ticket is worthless. If bidders are taking over airline operations and then trimming unprofitable routes over a period to time (AB employees stay employed) then ticket would be valid unless the route is cancelled entirely.

intuition

OK, thank you both.
I have november tickets on a route (TXL-CPH) where AB is the sole operator with 4 daily non-stops. So no legacy carriers currently, but with 4 daily there must be some demand.

I gather november is likely beyond the point where either the reconstruction/liquidation/dismemberment has finished or the emergency cash is gone. As I need to fly, I probably should buy new tickets elsewhere and wait for the AB flight to be cancelled and hope for money back from credit card company. It is just a question about if I need to make new tickets refundable in case AB tickets actually are honoured.
As this isn't big news here, it is slightly difficult to monitor the situation.

frogster

I don't think that the german gvmt wants to see stranded passengers before the election (after, all bets are off)


Current information in the german media seems to be that the slots can not be sold by themself so this would require handing over plane, Crew and Slot (complicated under german law)

CPH-Flyer

SK seems to have one flight a day at random hours,depending on the day. Not sure why they even keep that schedule, but that's a different story. If AB folds, and no one grabs that route, I am fairly certain SK will return to TXL. But that will most likely not save an existing AB ticket.

Pay with a Mastercard or similar. And you can get a refund via your credit card company if the ticket is lost. Don't use a Dankort.

intuition

You are right, they do. I missed it because it isn't even every day of the week. One flight Mo, fr, two flights Th, sun and no flights tue, wed, sat. A very odd schedule, maybe SK is just using the route to keep some surplus equipment in the air.