Disruption Strategy
Jul 9, 2022, 4:24 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Programs: QF, NZ, MH, Hilton
Posts: 79
Disruption Strategy
5 flights in and out of Queenstown today cancelled the night before. I get Covid/flu etc but wouldn't it make sense to cancel AKL/WLG, AKL/CHC flights where you have the option of putting on a 787/777 to mop up those disrupted?
Jul 9, 2022, 4:28 pm
#2
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,638
If a plane is on the ground doesn't mean they widebody crew to staff it. Part of the time of bringing back 777s is recertifying flight & cabin crew on the 777 & back filling the crew on the types they are coming from. This shuffle can be a long chain of retrainings.
Also looking where crew are want to run rotations where crew working every flight & not deadheading as don't want ot waste duty hours at the moment.
Last edited by nzkarit; Jul 9, 2022 at 4:36 pm
Jul 9, 2022, 4:39 pm
#3
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,638
To help with the wave at the moment they are offering credits again until 31 July.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/...entre-overload
Which I might take up as have some refundable flights coming up week after next & event travelling for looks like it might get pulled so works out well for me.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/...entre-overload
Which I might take up as have some refundable flights coming up week after next & event travelling for looks like it might get pulled so works out well for me.
Jul 9, 2022, 5:08 pm
#4
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: New Zealand (most of the time)
Programs: Air NZ Elite *G, Honors Gold, IHG Platinum Elite
Posts: 6,098
There are major international cancellations as well both QF and NZ out of ZQN.
Jul 9, 2022, 6:05 pm
#6
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: MEL CHC
Posts: 20,990
It a small airport, with close terrain obstacles.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queenstown_Airport
Getting a wide body into ZQN may be be possible. Getting it out would be bits on the back of big trucks.
https://flightplan2050.co.nz/safety-concerns
One of reasons who some want a new central Otago airport
-->A new airport for Central Otago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queenstown_Airport
Getting a wide body into ZQN may be be possible. Getting it out would be bits on the back of big trucks.
https://flightplan2050.co.nz/safety-concerns
Queenstown Airport is at the worst possible end of the safety spectrum for operation of scheduled commercial jet aircraft.
It has a short runway, difficult wind conditions (at the confluence of three mountain valleys which causes turbulence and windshear), minimum legal RESA’s at 90m instead of the industry standard 240m, and a high level of general aviation traffic. This results in Queenstown Airport having a Black Star Category X airport safety rating.
Queenstown Airport's proximity to the alpine divide manifests challenging mountain weather as easterly travelling depressions push against the Southern Alps. Severe turbulence, downdraughts and windshear can be experienced within the Queenstown basin below 1,200m. Runway conditions can change rapidly with snow, slush or ice. Snow showers can cause rapid reduction in visibility.
These hazards cause greater restrictions on aircraft operation with airlines applying special Queenstown rules that are more conservative than the aircraft manufacturers’ certified limits. Restrictions such as a reduction of permitted crosswind tolerance, down from 40 knots to 25 knots (80km/hr to 50km/hr) and permitted tailwind tolerance reduced from 15 knots to 5 knots (50km/hr to 10km/hr). Flight paths are adapted to be steeper than standard decent rates and significantly steeper climb rates on takeoff. All airlines require that only the Captain rather than copilot must control the aircraft for takeoffs and landings at Queenstown, and Captains must have completed training specific to Queenstown Airport before being able to operate in it.
It has a short runway, difficult wind conditions (at the confluence of three mountain valleys which causes turbulence and windshear), minimum legal RESA’s at 90m instead of the industry standard 240m, and a high level of general aviation traffic. This results in Queenstown Airport having a Black Star Category X airport safety rating.
Queenstown Airport's proximity to the alpine divide manifests challenging mountain weather as easterly travelling depressions push against the Southern Alps. Severe turbulence, downdraughts and windshear can be experienced within the Queenstown basin below 1,200m. Runway conditions can change rapidly with snow, slush or ice. Snow showers can cause rapid reduction in visibility.
These hazards cause greater restrictions on aircraft operation with airlines applying special Queenstown rules that are more conservative than the aircraft manufacturers’ certified limits. Restrictions such as a reduction of permitted crosswind tolerance, down from 40 knots to 25 knots (80km/hr to 50km/hr) and permitted tailwind tolerance reduced from 15 knots to 5 knots (50km/hr to 10km/hr). Flight paths are adapted to be steeper than standard decent rates and significantly steeper climb rates on takeoff. All airlines require that only the Captain rather than copilot must control the aircraft for takeoffs and landings at Queenstown, and Captains must have completed training specific to Queenstown Airport before being able to operate in it.
One of reasons who some want a new central Otago airport
-->A new airport for Central Otago
Last edited by Mwenenzi; Jul 9, 2022 at 6:10 pm
Jul 10, 2022, 1:33 am
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Programs: QF, NZ, MH, Hilton
Posts: 79
No, hence why in my mind it would make sense that instead of cancelling an AKL-ZQN return, more weighting is given to cancel an AKL-CHC return. If you cancel 2 or more AKL-CHC, the backlog may be able to be cleared by running a widebody down and back in the evening.
Jul 12, 2022, 2:50 am
#8
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 777
Had some work colleagues take a trip to BNE recently ex. CHC. Had to go via WLG on the way there and through AKL on the way back. Their flight 7 pm AKL-CHC was cancelled and no seats available later in the day, so they stayed in a hotel that night. Got rebooked for AKL-ZQN-CHC the next day, then AKL-ZQN leg got cancelled. Finally, eventually, they managed to get routed AKL-NPE-CHC. I imagine that was quite a long trip for what would normally be just a shade over 3 hours. There's just very few seats, staff and planes to go around.
Jul 13, 2022, 6:10 pm
#9
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: SYD
Programs: OZ*G, VA Plat, NZ*G (Elite), QF Gold and PC+, Hyatt Explorist, HH Gold, Bonvoyed ("Gold")
Posts: 5,350
I was wondering about that. Have been amazed by how slowly NZ is ramping up its trans-Tasman schedule (still only 3x SYD-AKL flights daily, only one on widebody). As a result have been using QF across the ditch... which made me realise how much I miss Space+ (especially since none of my u/g requests have cleared.
Jul 15, 2022, 6:33 pm
#10
Join Date: Dec 2013
Programs: NZ Airpoints GE, Qantas Platinum, Accor Diamond, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 955
I was wondering about that. Have been amazed by how slowly NZ is ramping up its trans-Tasman schedule (still only 3x SYD-AKL flights daily, only one on widebody). As a result have been using QF across the ditch... which made me realise how much I miss Space+ (especially since none of my u/g requests have cleared.
Jul 16, 2022, 5:53 pm
#11
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,813
Hi, some Kiwi relatives have been caught up in the disruptions .
Four of them were booked to fly Brisbane to Auckland on Saturday night 16 july.
They received a text early that day saying that the flight was cancelled and to call ANZ for options.
They did and, after 90 minutes, spoke with an operator who told them that the earliest flight home was on Monday 18 july . No offer of a non direct flight ( eg via SYD) or to go via another airline although , to be fair , it was school holidays ( NZ and NZ) so seats would be likely unavailable .
Some hours later , another message to say they had been changed to the next day's flight on tuesday evening!
Unfortunately, I was not present at the call but I had expected NZ would have offered some future payment for additional accommodation meals and expected – reportedly , there was none .
I am guessing that the usual causes affected the cancellation – eg illness amongst staff etc.
We are not talking about rich people here – just a group of young people visiting relatives in Queensland.
Is NZ under some obligation to offer some compensation for additional expenses and , in two cases , loss of income from their work ?
Four of them were booked to fly Brisbane to Auckland on Saturday night 16 july.
They received a text early that day saying that the flight was cancelled and to call ANZ for options.
They did and, after 90 minutes, spoke with an operator who told them that the earliest flight home was on Monday 18 july . No offer of a non direct flight ( eg via SYD) or to go via another airline although , to be fair , it was school holidays ( NZ and NZ) so seats would be likely unavailable .
Some hours later , another message to say they had been changed to the next day's flight on tuesday evening!
Unfortunately, I was not present at the call but I had expected NZ would have offered some future payment for additional accommodation meals and expected – reportedly , there was none .
I am guessing that the usual causes affected the cancellation – eg illness amongst staff etc.
We are not talking about rich people here – just a group of young people visiting relatives in Queensland.
Is NZ under some obligation to offer some compensation for additional expenses and , in two cases , loss of income from their work ?
Jul 17, 2022, 5:38 am
#12
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Frensham, Lincolnshire
Programs: RFC
Posts: 5,078
They bought the tickets in NZL for the flights, yes? If yes then they can argue the direct costs (eg. hotel, meals, transport, device data/roaming) in Disputes Tribunal and have a better than decent chance of winning as a simple tort. Keep all receipts, don't go crazy on expenses. They don't argue the fact of the delay. They argue the consequent *costs* incurred *by* the delay imposed by NZ.
Jul 17, 2022, 5:55 am
#13
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: SYD
Programs: OZ*G, VA Plat, NZ*G (Elite), QF Gold and PC+, Hyatt Explorist, HH Gold, Bonvoyed ("Gold")
Posts: 5,350
But yep, Space+ on any of NZs 320s/321s is a different best entirely. But their fares and schedules are just appalling right now - for my needs, at least.
Jul 17, 2022, 2:58 pm
#14
Join Date: Dec 2013
Programs: NZ Airpoints GE, Qantas Platinum, Accor Diamond, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 955
Definitely snug - though the snuggest was actually on a new aircraft, with a Boeing Sky interior, which I swear had the tightest seat pitch I've ever encountered on a QF jet (and I was in row 6). I'd take one of their more tired, older planes over that, given they do have a smidge more room in my experience...
But yep, Space+ on any of NZs 320s/321s is a different best entirely. But their fares and schedules are just appalling right now - for my needs, at least.
But yep, Space+ on any of NZs 320s/321s is a different best entirely. But their fares and schedules are just appalling right now - for my needs, at least.
Same here - I was in row 6 - I avoid four as the seats accommodate the table in the arm rest.. But like the airlines keep telling us, this is a response to customer demand where we want cheap airfares to places we don't want to go, at times we don't want to fly, so my trans-Tasman trip cost me a 'cheap' $1,600 in row 6.
Jul 17, 2022, 4:40 pm
#15
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: WLG/BKK
Programs: TG*G, NZ*GE, QF G, Accor Gold
Posts: 10,174
I think you are right there. The table does dig into the stomach, too on those with the blue halo above business class.
Same here - I was in row 6 - I avoid four as the seats accommodate the table in the arm rest.. But like the airlines keep telling us, this is a response to customer demand where we want cheap airfares to places we don't want to go, at times we don't want to fly, so my trans-Tasman trip cost me a 'cheap' $1,600 in row 6.
Same here - I was in row 6 - I avoid four as the seats accommodate the table in the arm rest.. But like the airlines keep telling us, this is a response to customer demand where we want cheap airfares to places we don't want to go, at times we don't want to fly, so my trans-Tasman trip cost me a 'cheap' $1,600 in row 6.
The NZ Space+ seating is indeed generous on the older 320 fleet. The NEO has reduced seat pitch (yes, the seat is a bit different, so an oranges-tangarines comparison). I was in WorksDeluxe BNE-WLG in 03F (83cm), and was envious that the Works pax on the left side had much more room (86cm). I was a late change so the WD Seats with HVC seating were all gone.
But you’d think if paying $140 more for WD over Works you’d at least get the ‘best seating’…?