FlyerTalk Forums

FlyerTalk Forums (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/index.php)
-   Air New Zealand | Air Points (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-new-zealand-air-points-440/)
-   -   Air NZ Engineers Threaten 21-23 December Strike (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-new-zealand-air-points/1944345-air-nz-engineers-threaten-21-23-december-strike.html)

vga Dec 12, 2018 11:58 pm

Yes.. it is to disrupt travel for 120,000 customers over the three busiest travel days of the year.

Eltham Dec 13, 2018 12:25 am


Originally Posted by kyanar (Post 30528664)
That they had been notified of a strike, and whether they anticipate any impact on passengers would be a start. Many of us if we didn't follow New Zealand news would gave had zero knowledge of this even happening.



Given there's been zero coverage of this strike in Australia, and Air New Zealand didn't even tell people that the strike had been notified to them, a reasonable person would not have known the strike was happening.

And they were correct in keeping quiet as it didn’t eventuate. Had it been confirmed they would have provided whatever information they could, I’m sure. Jumping the gun and causing unproductive worry and possibly booking cancellations would have been far more disruptive. It would also play into the hands of the union, who would have felt their threat was actually having a positive effect (in their eyes). All in all any other course of action would have been naive and stupid.

Eltham Dec 13, 2018 12:29 am


Originally Posted by JamesBigglesworth (Post 30528607)
That is a very good example of the way brand/customer management is handled in NZ: ignore it until after the fact.

NZ *should* have been actively managing expectations.

Contacting customers and telling them A. What is happening at point X ("A strike has been called by the engineers union for these dates. It will potentially affect ABC services. It will not affect XYZ services") B. Follow up with positive information advising what the airline intends to do on the days concerned (We will, as always, flail about like headless chickens) and outlining options for potentially affected pax (If you have ABC tickets you can consider adjusting your plans and moving your flight/s to another day. If you have XYZ tickets you are SOL. If you have travel insurance you might be able to claim on that'; good luck. We are not issuing refunds in the lead up because we're NZ and we Simply Don't Back Money Unless Forced After The Fact.)

NZ are great at marketing. They are ok at running an airline (with notable holes in capability). They are absolutely garbage at customer management.

On the contrary, they handled this very well. See my previous post.

Thai-Kiwi Dec 13, 2018 1:09 am


Originally Posted by Eltham (Post 30530113)


On the contrary, they handled this very well. See my previous post.

This is a subjective opinion. The point that was being made IMHO was that whatever limited information NZ available should/could have been passed to customers - even a simple statement such as a notice of a strike had been made and that there was no further information. This is sometimes done with poor weather forecasts and potential disruption - which may not actually have had any impact.

Based on Air NZ's information, each passenger would determine their own appetite for risk, and act as they wanted. Yes, a few probably might make rash decisions (their issue).

I note NZ had no hesitation in providing a lengthy email following resolution (see my earlier post). Your line of logic would imply that this message from Air NZ was not necessary.

JamesBigglesworth Dec 13, 2018 1:45 am


Originally Posted by Eltham (Post 30530102)
And they were correct in keeping quiet as it didn’t eventuate. Had it been confirmed they would have provided whatever information they could, I’m sure. Jumping the gun and causing unproductive worry and possibly booking cancellations would have been far more disruptive. It would also play into the hands of the union, who would have felt their threat was actually having a positive effect (in their eyes). All in all any other course of action would have been naive and stupid.

You're sure they would have provided info? Why would you assume they would break type and history?

The strike was well publicised and widely discussed. NZ acknowledging the potential and going through the options at various points would not *add* to any worry - unless you're the type of person that doesn't want to know all your options and prefers to operates in an information vacuum, that is.

A course of action that ignores the problem and says everything is fine and not to worry until X or Y actually starts shows a complete disregard for customers IMO. It is a symptom of the "Never admit any wrong" way of doing business that is typical of small minded and short term focused NZ business.

Eltham Dec 13, 2018 2:05 am


Originally Posted by Thai-Kiwi (Post 30530196)
This is a subjective opinion. The point that was being made IMHO was that whatever limited information NZ available should/could have been passed to customers - even a simple statement such as a notice of a strike had been made and that there was no further information. This is sometimes done with poor weather forecasts and potential disruption - which may not actually have had any impact.

Based on Air NZ's information, each passenger would determine their own appetite for risk, and act as they wanted. Yes, a few probably might make rash decisions (their issue).

I note NZ had no hesitation in providing a lengthy email following resolution (see my earlier post). Your line of logic would imply that this message from Air NZ was not necessary.

Exactly. The point you represent is also subjective BTW. Not sure why that’s a problem.

Eltham Dec 13, 2018 2:10 am


Originally Posted by JamesBigglesworth (Post 30530241)
You're sure they would have provided info? Why would you assume they would break type and history?

The strike was well publicised and widely discussed. NZ acknowledging the potential and going through the options at various points would not *add* to any worry - unless you're the type of person that doesn't want to know all your options and prefers to operates in an information vacuum, that is.

A course of action that ignores the problem and says everything is fine and not to worry until X or Y actually starts shows a complete disregard for customers IMO. It is a symptom of the "Never admit any wrong" way of doing business that is typical of small minded and short term focused NZ business.

This is a subjective opinion, as is mine. Apparently that’s not acceptable here. Regardless, I disagree. It would have been irresponsible of NZ to attempt to forecast the effect of the strike as it would have been no more than speculation. I only want information when something has changed. Otherwise it’s not worth bothering about.

Kiwi Flyer Dec 13, 2018 11:34 am


Originally Posted by kyanar (Post 30528664)
Given there's been zero coverage of this strike in Australia, and Air New Zealand didn't even tell people that the strike had been notified to them, a reasonable person would not have known the strike was happening.

That wouldn't have helped because you knew. Claims are excluded if either you knew it was forseen OR a reasonable person would know it was forseen.

JamesBigglesworth Dec 13, 2018 2:03 pm


Originally Posted by Eltham (Post 30530290)
This is a subjective opinion, as is mine.

Very true. But the position I'm advocating is also regarded as best practice in most any business school around the world.



Apparently that’s not acceptable here.
Wait, let me get my violin...



Regardless, I disagree. It would have been irresponsible of NZ to attempt to forecast the effect of the strike as it would have been no more than speculation. I only want information when something has changed. Otherwise it’s not worth bothering about.
OK, that second sentence I disagree with entirely and I don't think that's subjective. NZ is perfectly capable of projecting the likely disruption to services and has a positive duty to do so as a traded company. I'd futher argue they have an ethical responsibility to their customers and other employees to plan ahead, but I acknowledge that ethics is not a strong suit for NZ (or most other NZ companies, really). To say it's irresponsible to attempt to plan for known potential obstacles in a business is utterly irresponsible in itself. I hope that you're not involved in any sort of business that has hopes of lasting.

sbiddle Dec 13, 2018 2:08 pm

The outcome of the strike would have very like been a 3 day shutdown of all jet operations. That is the only way to deliver certainty to all parties involved.

It's for that reason that the strike was never likely to actually happen - the consequences and follow on effects from that would have been one of the most disruptive events to have ever occured in New Zealand.

Eltham Dec 13, 2018 2:24 pm


Originally Posted by JamesBigglesworth (Post 30532341)
Very true. But the position I'm advocating is also regarded as best practice in most any business school around the world.




Wait, let me get my violin...




OK, that second sentence I disagree with entirely and I don't think that's subjective. NZ is perfectly capable of projecting the likely disruption to services and has a positive duty to do so as a traded company. I'd futher argue they have an ethical responsibility to their customers and other employees to plan ahead, but I acknowledge that ethics is not a strong suit for NZ (or most other NZ companies, really). To say it's irresponsible to attempt to plan for known potential obstacles in a business is utterly irresponsible in itself. I hope that you're not involved in any sort of business that has hopes of lasting.

Not sure what business school would recommend providing speculative and potentially wildly misleading information to customers, least of all for a publicly traded company. Of course they would be internally making all sorts of contingency plans but that’s a totally different matter to communicating externally. Sounds like you have little or no experience of PR, crisis management or external communications, nor IR strategy and tactics (which they also handled very well). IMO 🙄

kyanar Dec 13, 2018 10:08 pm


Originally Posted by JamesBigglesworth (Post 30530241)
The strike was well publicised and widely discussed. NZ acknowledging the potential and going through the options at various points would not *add* to any worry - unless you're the type of person that doesn't want to know all your options and prefers to operates in an information vacuum, that is.

It's funny you say that, since if you aren't an NZ based passenger it actually wasn't well publicised. There was zero coverage in Australian media, it didn't even merit a comment on Australian Frequent Flyer until the strike notice was lifted, so as it happens there's a few good examples of that information vacuum you speak of.


Originally Posted by Eltham (Post 30530113)
On the contrary, they handled this very well. See my previous post.

On the contrary, not telling customers of even the remotest possibility of flight delays (which they do for anything from aircraft maintenance - see 787-9 engine issues - to weather events already, even when there's a high likelihood of no impact on passengers) is not "handled very well". It's disastrous, and contemptuous toward the people that actually pay their salaries - the customers. Once you have a strike notice in your hand, impacts are certain unless you can avert them. How you avert them is irrelevant. But not telling the customers who may be impacted is abysmally bad customer service, even if you are 99% certain you can avert them successfully.


Originally Posted by sbiddle (Post 30532358)
The outcome of the strike would have very like been a 3 day shutdown of all jet operations. That is the only way to deliver certainty to all parties involved.

It's for that reason that the strike was never likely to actually happen - the consequences and follow on effects from that would have been one of the most disruptive events to have ever occured in New Zealand.

It's a bit premature to suggest that the strike was "never likely to actually happen" - I bet no one thought Qantas would bolt every plane to the ground and IRROPS their entire customer base in transit to stick it to the union, but they did - and it worked. Spectacularly (for them. For the union, not so much).


Originally Posted by Eltham (Post 30532395)
Not sure what business school would recommend providing speculative and potentially wildly misleading information to customers, least of all for a publicly traded company. Of course they would be internally making all sorts of contingency plans but that’s a totally different matter to communicating externally. Sounds like you have little or no experience of PR, crisis management or external communications, nor IR strategy and tactics (which they also handled very well). IMO 🙄

What rubbish. No business school would ever teach that you should handle a potential massive impact to your customers by ignoring it. On the contrary, you immediately work to control the narrative to dispel any potential panic that might be caused by media or other parties. And that means - guess what - communicating with customers. Not leaving it to the media. It's pretty ironic of you to be claiming that the posters you're responding to have little or no experience with PR, crisis management and communications if you think that's well handled.

Eltham Dec 13, 2018 11:26 pm


Originally Posted by kyanar (Post 30533631)
On the contrary, not telling customers of even the remotest possibility of flight delays (which they do for anything from aircraft maintenance - see 787-9 engine issues - to weather events already, even when there's a high likelihood of no impact on passengers) is not "handled very well". It's disastrous, and contemptuous toward the people that actually pay their salaries - the customers. Once you have a strike notice in your hand, impacts are certain unless you can avert them. How you avert them is irrelevant. But not telling the customers who may be impacted is abysmally bad customer service, even if you are 99% certain you can avert them successfully.

What rubbish. No business school would ever teach that you should handle a potential massive impact to your customers by ignoring it. On the contrary, you immediately work to control the narrative to dispel any potential panic that might be caused by media or other parties. And that means - guess what - communicating with customers. Not leaving it to the media. It's pretty ironic of you to be claiming that the posters you're responding to have little or no experience with PR, crisis management and communications if you think that's well handled.

There’s so much wrong with this post I’ll just leave it there for posterity.

kyanar Dec 14, 2018 4:49 pm


Originally Posted by Eltham (Post 30533756)


There’s so much wrong with this post I’ll just leave it there for posterity.

This is the definition of ironic.

Markhm Dec 14, 2018 7:20 pm


Originally Posted by Kiwi Flyer (Post 30512842)
Reminds me of the bad old days when ferry crew went on strike for school holidays.

yes, I wrote Dave Morgan (President of Sea Fearers Union) a s*itty letter about a strike on Xmas Eve. I called him a pinko..,he replied with a copy of Pravda. Bloody funny now, made me furious at the time.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 2:15 am.


This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.