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Air NZ Engineers Threaten 21-23 December Strike
Union wants strike to cause maximum disruption. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/...ectid=12172849
Lots of Akl-Wgtn Rtn travel booked either side of this for self, partner, daughters. I imagine this will bleed into the "Crowded Lounges" threads. |
21 Dec will be a busy day - I have 2x lads flying DUD-WLG in the morning.
Online chat staff simply noted that IF a strike proceeds then Contact Centre will reach out to affected passengers, although it was not clear if that contact would be with a solution (eg alternative day, same day alt route on ATR etc). Until then, the usual fees for changes apply if one wanted to take the initiative to de-risk things. |
NZH with their clickbait again. I'm travelling on December 23 and assumed I would be affected too. Why not just title it "Air NZ Engineers Threaten 21 December Strike"
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I see pretty much zero chance of it going ahead. The public backlash against the union is already in motion.
The implications and backlash over a full day strike that would essentially ground the airline would be too big for the union to cope with. That's precisely why Air NZ are effectively calling their bluff and going on the attack. |
Well, it's not without precedent. Recall when Joyce grounded the entire QF fleet in a standoff against their union? It worked out spectacularly for them.
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Originally Posted by kyanar
(Post 30507178)
Well, it's not without precedent. Recall when Joyce grounded the entire QF fleet in a standoff against their union? It worked out spectacularly for them.
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Originally Posted by Beano
(Post 30507547)
Remind us what actually happen after that ?
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Payback
Unions bought this Govt, now it’s payback time. On the face of the Airline side of the story the Engineers are pretty well looked after. Hi risk bargaining strategy and yes I agree AirNZ may well call the bluff. Mr Luxton seems well onside with Govt however. Should we expect further diminished Airpoints benefits if they get their way? |
Just have to wait and see. An inconvenience for those flying if it goes ahead but I’m sure NZ have contingency plans in case for this. |
*eyeroll*
Originally Posted by freemark
(Post 30507803)
Unions bought this Govt, now it’s payback time. On the face of the Airline side of the story the Engineers are pretty well looked after. Hi risk bargaining strategy and yes I agree AirNZ may well call the bluff. Mr Luxton seems well onside with Govt however. Should we expect further diminished Airpoints benefits if they get their way? |
We're flying to Sydney that day, the tickets were very expensive. All I want to know is that Air NZ will look after us properly if we are disrupted, but judging by their performance with all the other disruptions we've experienced in the past year I'm not holding out much hope.
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Originally Posted by Beano
(Post 30507547)
Remind us what actually happen after that ?
Personally, I have a BNE bound flight via AKL on 23rd/24th so who knows if I'll be affected. |
You may be able to claim compensation from Air NZ if your domestic flight is cancelled or delayed, under Civil Aviation legislation.
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I'm flying AKL-WEL on the 21st so would be affected. Not that big a deal for me personally but given what I have read and heard on the radio about the engineers I would be fuming if it goes ahead. Public opinion definitely seems to be against the union and I think they have screwed up big time by trying to do this on what is probably one of the busiest travel days of the year.
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Always 2 sides to the story... (Had issues posting from NZ Herald source) "This is not just about pay. It's about repeated proposals by the airline weeks out from Christmas to pay them less than colleagues who have already settled and to cut into key conditions, including overtime rates. "This affects line and hangar engineers, but also store workers and aircraft cleaners, who are covered by the same document and who are struggling to get ahead," he said. Cuts to pay or other conditions don’t generally go down well although I dislike them aiming for Xmas and maximal disruption. I thought Luxon hired a company to mediate this type of stuff or at least that’s what I’d read previously. Anyway, still time to sort and abort. |
Sounds like Air NZ took a gamble that they would not strike over Xmas and may have lost that bet.
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Originally Posted by Thai-Kiwi
(Post 30506807)
21 Dec will be a busy day - I have 2x lads flying DUD-WLG in the morning.
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Whatever the merits or otherwise of their grievances this is such a vicious and nasty thing to do
Literally threatening to ruin Christmas for thousands of people |
Air NZ could bargain substantively and genuinely with them. Good on the union members for standing up for themselves.
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We don't know for sure that they haven't been bargaining genuinely and substantively. Sometimes unions really do ask too much.
I'd be interested to hear from any union members present if they don't have some sort of non-disclosure. |
In a statement, the airline said the average wage of the staff in question was $115,000 a year - with some earning more than $150,000. Its general manager of aircraft maintenance, Viv de Beus, said the staff have had year-on-year pay increases; and engineers got six weeks of annual leave, a car park, and recently had a $6,400 one off payment. The airline said while the group has received pay increases annually for the past 12 years, it has so far rejected recent proposals including an immediate 2 per cent pay increase followed by a further 3 per cent increase after 12 months, with a further pay review in mid-2021. Staff have also declined a proposal to standardise overtime pay to 150 per cent of regular pay rate (currently overtime is paid at a mix of double time and time-and-a-half), and a corresponding $6400 one-off payment to address the change in rate. Only some of this workgroup did regular overtime but the payment would be made to everyone employed under this collective agreement, the airline said. Along with pay, claims on the aircraft maintenance engineers' side have included an extra week of annual leave for employees with five years' service (taking shift workers to six weeks a year), free reserved car parking spaces within 500m of their workplace, and the right to renegotiate terms just prior to the busy Christmas season again next year, the airline said. In a statement, AMEA said the pay offer was unfair at a time when the airline was making substantial profits. It was less than the offers made to other employee groups at the airline and members felt insulted. |
Originally Posted by b1m9t0
(Post 30511929)
Good grief.
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Reminds me of the bad old days when ferry crew went on strike for school holidays.
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We have a flight on the 21st connecting to a cruise on the 23rd. Checked out insurance and we won't get the full amount back for the cruise if we miss it. Called air NZ and they told us if we wanted to take the earlier flight it would cost nearly $2,000 extra as it was a voluntary change but we would get a refund of this if they do strike. What would you do? Pay the extra or wait and see. Anyone thinking this will be resolved on Monday?
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Everyone will have their own risk tolerances. I know I would change the flights but I strongly value my time over money.
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I would have thought your travel insurance would meet costs for flights on another airline if the strike is happening - you have an event (the cruise) that you need to get to?
That said, alternative flights might be hard to sort at short notice if there is a strike happening and the insurance company would be unlikely to pay up in advance. |
Originally Posted by fizzggg
(Post 30513773)
We have a flight on the 21st connecting to a cruise on the 23rd. Checked out insurance and we won't get the full amount back for the cruise if we miss it. Called air NZ and they told us if we wanted to take the earlier flight it would cost nearly $2,000 extra as it was a voluntary change but we would get a refund of this if they do strike. What would you do? Pay the extra or wait and see. Anyone thinking this will be resolved on Monday?
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Originally Posted by Beano
(Post 30514039)
how much to buy a fully refundable ticket on another airline ?
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When I read the news story, I made two additional fully refundable bookings DUD-WLG on earlier dates for my 2 lads. They are 'lucky' to have such flexibility, I can imagine that many travellers don't.
This was done to cover the situation where (if) alternate flights were offered but we decided that they were unsuitable for some reason, then we could take a refund and use these contingency tickets instead. Their current tix are Seat+Bag and so not usually refundable. |
Originally Posted by fizzggg
(Post 30513773)
We have a flight on the 21st connecting to a cruise on the 23rd. Checked out insurance and we won't get the full amount back for the cruise if we miss it. Called air NZ and they told us if we wanted to take the earlier flight it would cost nearly $2,000 extra as it was a voluntary change but we would get a refund of this if they do strike. What would you do? Pay the extra or wait and see. Anyone thinking this will be resolved on Monday?
Where are you flying on 21st? Some NZ flights may be fairly easily resolved in the event of the strike occurring (e.g. Tauranga to Auckland - book rental car instead), while others could be very difficult due to lack of alternative flights on other airlines. |
Originally Posted by Thai-Kiwi
(Post 30514262)
When I read the news story, I made two additional fully refundable bookings DUD-WLG on earlier dates for my 2 lads. They are 'lucky' to have such flexibility, I can imagine that many travellers don't.
This was done to cover the situation where (if) alternate flights were offered but we decided that they were unsuitable for some reason, then we could take a refund and use these contingency tickets instead. Their current tix are Seat+Bag and so not usually refundable. |
Originally Posted by kyanar
(Post 30511869)
We don't know for sure that they haven't been bargaining genuinely and substantively. Sometimes unions really do ask too much.
I'd be interested to hear from any union members present if they don't have some sort of non-disclosure. The numbers mentioned appear attractive, however this is a skilled trade and these incomes are now unheard of in similar fields. The work done is often out of hours, weekends, public holidays and on call (the most hated work condition to many). The skills are internationally transferable and international rates of pay have to be considered (just like a CEO compares their own remuneration to some other CEO in the US). Only those at the table really know the score, if the engineers are being greedy or management too stingy. Hopefully this will be resolved soon so people can be where they need to be. Possibly not relevant but reminds me of a quote, "you think hiring a good tech is expensive, try hiring a cheap one!" |
Part of the problem is the high 'progressive' income tax. Whatever hourly premium the airline is offering is wiped or significantly reduced once you take into account, the overtime is mostly likely taxed at the highest income tax bracket. Workers may value their time over incremental net pay. I don't see this left-wing union friendly government reducing income taxes or adjusting the income tax bracket creep in a hurry.
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Originally Posted by graham_d
(Post 30514817)
Agreed, there is much discussion of what they already get but not of how they get it.
The numbers mentioned appear attractive, however this is a skilled trade and these incomes are now unheard of in similar fields. The work done is often out of hours, weekends, public holidays and on call (the most hated work condition to many). The skills are internationally transferable and international rates of pay have to be considered (just like a CEO compares their own remuneration to some other CEO in the US). Only those at the table really know the score, if the engineers are being greedy or management too stingy. Hopefully this will be resolved soon so people can be where they need to be. Possibly not relevant but reminds me of a quote, "you think hiring a good tech is expensive, try hiring a cheap one!" You may be correct and they may be deserving, I have no idea. But the tactics being employed by the union are IMO appalling, and do them no credit. This is not a group of working class people hard up before Xmas. However, many of the people affected will be, saving up for flights to see their families at Xmas etc. They are not like many of us on this forum who have options, like booking flexidates etc . The optics are not in the Union's favour here. And if there is a strike and the government does not say anything, I can't see them coming out of this smelling like roses either. |
High progressive income tax? In New Zealand?
Originally Posted by poopbunny
(Post 30516227)
Part of the problem is the high 'progressive' income tax. Whatever hourly premium the airline is offering is wiped or significantly reduced once you take into account, the overtime is mostly likely taxed at the highest income tax bracket. Workers may value their time over incremental net pay. I don't see this left-wing union friendly government reducing income taxes or adjusting the income tax bracket creep in a hurry.
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Really guys? Is this thread going to turn into a political debate? On an airline forum?
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Originally Posted by oranjemakker
(Post 30516414)
You may be correct and they may be deserving, I have no idea. But the tactics being employed by the union are IMO appalling, and do them no credit. This is not a group of working class people hard up before Xmas. However, many of the people affected will be, saving up for flights to see their families at Xmas etc. They are not like many of us on this forum who have options, like booking flexidates etc . The optics are not in the Union's favour here. And if there is a strike and the government does not say anything, I can't see them coming out of this smelling like roses either.
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Originally Posted by Kiwi Flyer
(Post 30514340)
In my case earlier dates isn't an option. I may have to book Jetstar as my contingency (NZ being separate ticket to international on another airline).
So 1 booking down for NZ already. If strike dates extend over Christmas period then I'll have other NZ bookings to look at replacing. |
Originally Posted by nzkarit
(Post 30514188)
On an airline which doesn't use AirNZ Ground Engineers
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The intended strike is specific to Air NZ flights as far as I can tell, so other carriers that 'buy' services from Air NZ engineering would, I presume, continue unaffected.
Caveat: my presumptions have been wrong before. |
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