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-   -   Air NZ Engineers Threaten 21-23 December Strike (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-new-zealand-air-points/1944345-air-nz-engineers-threaten-21-23-december-strike.html)

Kiwi Flyer Dec 8, 2018 7:51 pm


Originally Posted by Thai-Kiwi (Post 30514262)
When I read the news story, I made two additional fully refundable bookings DUD-WLG on earlier dates for my 2 lads. They are 'lucky' to have such flexibility, I can imagine that many travellers don't.

This was done to cover the situation where (if) alternate flights were offered but we decided that they were unsuitable for some reason, then we could take a refund and use these contingency tickets instead. Their current tix are Seat+Bag and so not usually refundable.

In my case earlier dates isn't an option. I may have to book Jetstar as my contingency (NZ being separate ticket to international on another airline).

graham_d Dec 9, 2018 1:43 am


Originally Posted by kyanar (Post 30511869)
We don't know for sure that they haven't been bargaining genuinely and substantively. Sometimes unions really do ask too much.

I'd be interested to hear from any union members present if they don't have some sort of non-disclosure.

Agreed, there is much discussion of what they already get but not of how they get it.
The numbers mentioned appear attractive, however this is a skilled trade and these incomes are now unheard of in similar fields.
The work done is often out of hours, weekends, public holidays and on call (the most hated work condition to many).
The skills are internationally transferable and international rates of pay have to be considered (just like a CEO compares their own remuneration to some other CEO in the US).
Only those at the table really know the score, if the engineers are being greedy or management too stingy.
Hopefully this will be resolved soon so people can be where they need to be.

Possibly not relevant but reminds me of a quote, "you think hiring a good tech is expensive, try hiring a cheap one!"

poopbunny Dec 9, 2018 12:52 pm

Part of the problem is the high 'progressive' income tax. Whatever hourly premium the airline is offering is wiped or significantly reduced once you take into account, the overtime is mostly likely taxed at the highest income tax bracket. Workers may value their time over incremental net pay. I don't see this left-wing union friendly government reducing income taxes or adjusting the income tax bracket creep in a hurry.

oranjemakker Dec 9, 2018 2:09 pm


Originally Posted by graham_d (Post 30514817)
Agreed, there is much discussion of what they already get but not of how they get it.
The numbers mentioned appear attractive, however this is a skilled trade and these incomes are now unheard of in similar fields.
The work done is often out of hours, weekends, public holidays and on call (the most hated work condition to many).
The skills are internationally transferable and international rates of pay have to be considered (just like a CEO compares their own remuneration to some other CEO in the US).
Only those at the table really know the score, if the engineers are being greedy or management too stingy.
Hopefully this will be resolved soon so people can be where they need to be.

Possibly not relevant but reminds me of a quote, "you think hiring a good tech is expensive, try hiring a cheap one!"


You may be correct and they may be deserving, I have no idea. But the tactics being employed by the union are IMO appalling, and do them no credit. This is not a group of working class people hard up before Xmas. However, many of the people affected will be, saving up for flights to see their families at Xmas etc. They are not like many of us on this forum who have options, like booking flexidates etc . The optics are not in the Union's favour here. And if there is a strike and the government does not say anything, I can't see them coming out of this smelling like roses either.

jawnbc Dec 9, 2018 5:25 pm

High progressive income tax? In New Zealand?


Originally Posted by poopbunny (Post 30516227)
Part of the problem is the high 'progressive' income tax. Whatever hourly premium the airline is offering is wiped or significantly reduced once you take into account, the overtime is mostly likely taxed at the highest income tax bracket. Workers may value their time over incremental net pay. I don't see this left-wing union friendly government reducing income taxes or adjusting the income tax bracket creep in a hurry.


kiwifrequentflyer Dec 9, 2018 5:30 pm

Really guys? Is this thread going to turn into a political debate? On an airline forum?

wayoutwest Dec 9, 2018 5:33 pm


Originally Posted by oranjemakker (Post 30516414)
You may be correct and they may be deserving, I have no idea. But the tactics being employed by the union are IMO appalling, and do them no credit. This is not a group of working class people hard up before Xmas. However, many of the people affected will be, saving up for flights to see their families at Xmas etc. They are not like many of us on this forum who have options, like booking flexidates etc . The optics are not in the Union's favour here. And if there is a strike and the government does not say anything, I can't see them coming out of this smelling like roses either.

How else do workers get their message across? If NZ stopped all the crazy after videos they may be Able to then say they saving money but while the boss is chasing autographs it will not happen. Go the workers and do it for a week

Kiwi Flyer Dec 10, 2018 1:00 am


Originally Posted by Kiwi Flyer (Post 30514340)
In my case earlier dates isn't an option. I may have to book Jetstar as my contingency (NZ being separate ticket to international on another airline).

Now I've had a chance to look at the limited options with my lack of flexibility I've bitten the bullet and rebooked on JQ. I can't afford to miss my international flight and JQ flights are fairly full so waiting until I know for sure there is a strike may be too late. I even looked into openjaw via Australia on QF but the JQ option was better for me.

So 1 booking down for NZ already. If strike dates extend over Christmas period then I'll have other NZ bookings to look at replacing.

smanch Dec 10, 2018 1:07 am


Originally Posted by nzkarit (Post 30514188)
On an airline which doesn't use AirNZ Ground Engineers

Does anyone know which airlines use NZ engineers? I'm flying UA AKL-SFO and wondered if it'd be affected if the strike moves ahead.

Thai-Kiwi Dec 10, 2018 2:24 am

The intended strike is specific to Air NZ flights as far as I can tell, so other carriers that 'buy' services from Air NZ engineering would, I presume, continue unaffected.

Caveat: my presumptions have been wrong before.

ps107 Dec 11, 2018 12:34 am

https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/378052/air-nz-engineers-vote-to-strike-for-three-days-next-week

Thai-Kiwi Dec 11, 2018 12:58 am

3 days of strike: 21-23 Dec inclusive
 

Originally Posted by ps107 (Post 30521847)
https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/378052/air-nz-engineers-vote-to-strike-for-three-days-next-week

Well, that raises the ante! How many affected pax in total on 21, 22 and 23 Dec will now be affected?

This will also seriously stress NZ’s ability to try and move pax to alternate days

bce1 Dec 11, 2018 1:16 am

Don’t think this has been raised in the thread......

assuming this is only jet services and not turbo prop?

Mt Cook and Air Nelson engineers would be on a different contract?

anyone who is better informed have any idea?

thanks

brenrox Dec 11, 2018 1:18 am

What a miserable bunch...I respect their ability to strike, but for the unions to jeopardise peoples plans around Christmas is truly abhorrent. These aren't employees who are treated poorly our paid poorly either, how many other companies give all their staff bonuses? If they feel so aggrieved, maybe they should see how green the grass is on the other side at say Jetstar? Whilst I am "lucky" to have the flexibility that I don't need to be at a wedding, graduation etc., the grandparents who see my daughter 2-3 times a year stand to be deprived of a few days with her, they probably aren't as relaxed as me about it.

brenrox Dec 11, 2018 1:21 am


Originally Posted by bce1 (Post 30521914)
Don’t think this has been raised in the thread......

assuming this is only jet services and not turbo prop?

Mt Cook and Air Nelson engineers would be on a different contract?

anyone who is better informed have any idea?

thanks

Correct, the turboprop engineers are not striking


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