Constructive Criticism of La Premiere
Nov 28, 2016, 5:50 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2016
Programs: BA GGL, FB Platinum, Delta Nothing, HHonors Diamond, IAG Gold Ambassador, Ritz Silver, SPG Gold
Posts: 100
Constructive Criticism of La Premiere
I'm a recent convert to AF after years of declining standards from OneWorld airlines, and have done a few paid P returns from CDG-JFK over the past couple of months, all on the 777-300.
Overall, I'm a happy customer, and will be back over and over assuming all remains the same with the product.
That said, in the spirit of what seems to be AF's genuine interest in providing a world-class product, here are a few thoughts along the way...
The ground experience is virtually flawless. One minor nitpick: When flying alone, ensuring each passenger has a separate car for the transfers would add to the exclusive feel of the product.
The hard product on the 777 is exceptional. I was wary of the curtain concept before trying it, and am deeply impressed at how spacious it remains while being private and very functional.
The service has also been faultless on all sectors. I've had crews just as good on other carriers, but not so consistently.
Please get rid of the little crackers at the seat before takeoff. These feel decidedly non-premium.
Having invested so much in so many places, I'm surprised they can't manage a proper caviar service. For an airline which doesn't hesitate to serve Cristal onboard, this seems like a no-brainer, and would round out the indulgence factor. Indeed, having a few extra tins would really create a wow.
While the food in the lounge is out of this world for airport fare, I find the menus onboard sparse in general in terms of variety, and the quality of catering ex-CDG is surprisingly average, (it seems consistently higher ex-JFK, except for the cheese.) Don't get me wrong....it's a solid offering, decent quality and plenty of food.....but it doesn't quite live up to the rest of the experience. More choice would be welcome.
The wine quality is very good, though back in my heavy drinking days I would have been a little irritated at Bombay Sapphire in this setting. And being a French airline, please load a good vintage Calvados for heaven's sake!
The arrivals experience at JFK is probably the best offered by any airline in the USA. They are brilliant, and seem to have the run of the airport.
Unfortunately, the departure and connection experiences inbound let them down badly. A tarmac transfer coordinated with Delta if necessary when connecting on the same itinerary should be standard. The check-in and escort are well done, however.
That said, the lowest point of the entire experience is the JFK lounge. It's a hole; even the odd and tiny private F area. The catering is good, though not special in any way. Unfortunately it is let down badly by poorly trained service staff who speak little English and no French. Unlike the polish at CDG, this is low-end American diner service. It's not a nice way to start the journey home, and surprising that standards are so low for their premiere outstation. The lounge itself is not inviting, and the F area feels like a kids playroom, not a first class lounge.
A buggy could be provided for the transfer from lounge to gate, as it always seems a bit of a walk.
Finally, the menus ex-JFK, though of a high quality, are again extremely limited.
All this said, the ground services make this easily the best product on the route, and from the EU to the USA overall. But while AF might be tempted to settle for that, the investment required to blow the competition hopelessly out of the water seems a pittance when considering what they are already putting into the product. I'll give it a 93/100, but would love to see them be as flawless as I think they very well could.
Overall, I'm a happy customer, and will be back over and over assuming all remains the same with the product.
That said, in the spirit of what seems to be AF's genuine interest in providing a world-class product, here are a few thoughts along the way...
The ground experience is virtually flawless. One minor nitpick: When flying alone, ensuring each passenger has a separate car for the transfers would add to the exclusive feel of the product.
The hard product on the 777 is exceptional. I was wary of the curtain concept before trying it, and am deeply impressed at how spacious it remains while being private and very functional.
The service has also been faultless on all sectors. I've had crews just as good on other carriers, but not so consistently.
Please get rid of the little crackers at the seat before takeoff. These feel decidedly non-premium.
Having invested so much in so many places, I'm surprised they can't manage a proper caviar service. For an airline which doesn't hesitate to serve Cristal onboard, this seems like a no-brainer, and would round out the indulgence factor. Indeed, having a few extra tins would really create a wow.
While the food in the lounge is out of this world for airport fare, I find the menus onboard sparse in general in terms of variety, and the quality of catering ex-CDG is surprisingly average, (it seems consistently higher ex-JFK, except for the cheese.) Don't get me wrong....it's a solid offering, decent quality and plenty of food.....but it doesn't quite live up to the rest of the experience. More choice would be welcome.
The wine quality is very good, though back in my heavy drinking days I would have been a little irritated at Bombay Sapphire in this setting. And being a French airline, please load a good vintage Calvados for heaven's sake!
The arrivals experience at JFK is probably the best offered by any airline in the USA. They are brilliant, and seem to have the run of the airport.
Unfortunately, the departure and connection experiences inbound let them down badly. A tarmac transfer coordinated with Delta if necessary when connecting on the same itinerary should be standard. The check-in and escort are well done, however.
That said, the lowest point of the entire experience is the JFK lounge. It's a hole; even the odd and tiny private F area. The catering is good, though not special in any way. Unfortunately it is let down badly by poorly trained service staff who speak little English and no French. Unlike the polish at CDG, this is low-end American diner service. It's not a nice way to start the journey home, and surprising that standards are so low for their premiere outstation. The lounge itself is not inviting, and the F area feels like a kids playroom, not a first class lounge.
A buggy could be provided for the transfer from lounge to gate, as it always seems a bit of a walk.
Finally, the menus ex-JFK, though of a high quality, are again extremely limited.
All this said, the ground services make this easily the best product on the route, and from the EU to the USA overall. But while AF might be tempted to settle for that, the investment required to blow the competition hopelessly out of the water seems a pittance when considering what they are already putting into the product. I'll give it a 93/100, but would love to see them be as flawless as I think they very well could.
Nov 28, 2016, 6:12 pm
#2
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: New York, NY
Programs: DL DM, National Executive, SPG Gold, Global Entry, NEXUS
Posts: 263
Awesome! Really looking forward to my first P experience on AF... and great to hear that it's not just hype, despite some room to improve.
What's the arrivals experience like at JFK? I haven't really heard much about it.
What's the arrivals experience like at JFK? I haven't really heard much about it.
Nov 28, 2016, 7:30 pm
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2016
Programs: BA GGL, FB Platinum, Delta Nothing, HHonors Diamond, IAG Gold Ambassador, Ritz Silver, SPG Gold
Posts: 100
JFK arrivals is brilliant.
You will be met at the door and escorted into the immigration hall. You'll be placed at the front of the line for the machines if needed, and then escorted to the front of the line if you need to see an officer. They will then escort you to baggage claim if needed and handle your bags for you, and take you to the front at customs. If you have a driver, they will coordinate the handoff with him, and if you need them to they even are able to get you to the front of the general taxi queue outside.
Just top notch.
I should also add that regarding the lounge at JFK, by comparison, the BA Concorde Room is leagues nicer. The bathrooms at the AF lounge are atrocious.
You will be met at the door and escorted into the immigration hall. You'll be placed at the front of the line for the machines if needed, and then escorted to the front of the line if you need to see an officer. They will then escort you to baggage claim if needed and handle your bags for you, and take you to the front at customs. If you have a driver, they will coordinate the handoff with him, and if you need them to they even are able to get you to the front of the general taxi queue outside.
Just top notch.
I should also add that regarding the lounge at JFK, by comparison, the BA Concorde Room is leagues nicer. The bathrooms at the AF lounge are atrocious.
Nov 29, 2016, 7:07 am
#4
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Seat 1A, Juice pretty much everywhere, Mucci des Coins Exotiques
Posts: 34,339
While the food in the lounge is out of this world for airport fare, I find the menus onboard sparse in general in terms of variety, and the quality of catering ex-CDG is surprisingly average, (it seems consistently higher ex-JFK, except for the cheese.) Don't get me wrong....it's a solid offering, decent quality and plenty of food.....but it doesn't quite live up to the rest of the experience. More choice would be welcome.
The wine quality is very good, though back in my heavy drinking days I would have been a little irritated at Bombay Sapphire in this setting. And being a French airline, please load a good vintage Calvados for heaven's sake!
The arrivals experience at JFK is probably the best offered by any airline in the USA. They are brilliant, and seem to have the run of the airport.
Unfortunately, the departure and connection experiences inbound let them down badly. A tarmac transfer coordinated with Delta if necessary when connecting on the same itinerary should be standard. The check-in and escort are well done, however.
That said, the lowest point of the entire experience is the JFK lounge. It's a hole; even the odd and tiny private F area. The catering is good, though not special in any way. Unfortunately it is let down badly by poorly trained service staff who speak little English and no French. Unlike the polish at CDG, this is low-end American diner service. It's not a nice way to start the journey home, and surprising that standards are so low for their premiere outstation. The lounge itself is not inviting, and the F area feels like a kids playroom, not a first class lounge.
Finally, the menus ex-JFK, though of a high quality, are again extremely limited.
As you say, criticism is good. Especially when you acknowledge the good.
Nov 29, 2016, 8:59 am
#5
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: NYC
Posts: 99
Only having 4 seats on these flights should be why they could push for inter-terminal transfers, if the reason they can't at the moment is overcrowding.
And, sure, the lounge may be functional but most people flying F probably want more than functional. They could do well to improve it, at least to the level of other airlines F lounges at JFK.
And, sure, the lounge may be functional but most people flying F probably want more than functional. They could do well to improve it, at least to the level of other airlines F lounges at JFK.
Nov 29, 2016, 10:50 am
#6
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: East Anglia UK
Programs: BA-S UA LH-Sen KLM/AF-Plat.
Posts: 1,636
Last time I was at IAD the AF staff let us into the terminal building from the private shuttle bus and disappeared into the crowd leaving us to join the back of all the queues. She met us again at the carousel.
Were we unlucky?
Were we unlucky?
Nov 29, 2016, 10:53 am
#7
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Seat 1A, Juice pretty much everywhere, Mucci des Coins Exotiques
Posts: 34,339
Yes, unlucky and unloved! I was escorted all the way through, although I entered during a slow period without big lines. Obviously I beat all the rest of AF's A380's worth of pax using the private van.
Nov 29, 2016, 11:09 am
#8
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: East Anglia UK
Programs: BA-S UA LH-Sen KLM/AF-Plat.
Posts: 1,636
Perhaps, then, this could be addressed in future, going again in the New Year. These types of inconsistencies would make a one off flight seem less good than it could normally be and lose a customer.
Nov 29, 2016, 10:50 pm
#9
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,879
Thank you FrenchMerican, what a thoughtful post ^
Whilst I share your overall enthusiasm, and whilst I am personally somewhat indifferent about some of the observations (just things that I don't care that much about, such as having a car for myself or the brand of gin) I subscribe to many of the proposals that you make.
My P experience with Air France is on different destinations than you (JFK only once, and that was arriving there. Other than that mostly GRU, also BEY and SFO on the old-style A380) and I am a less frequent guest than you (eight legs this year), but still I'd like to add some observations/ideas for improvement.
Ground service in CDG is top notch as you said. Outstations something should be done for transfers to/from other flights in general (not just alliance partners). For instance, connecting to DL at JFK I skipped the escort servive because I was told that bascially I'd be on my own once I left T1, so I left it at that and walked faster than she would have and used Global Entry, which makes queue-jumping unnecessary. THere are positive examples: in GRU for instance, I was once picked up by an escort from Terminal 1 and she rode with me in a taxi to Terminal 3. My arrival was on Azul, not an AF or Skyteam partner at all. Similarly, at some airports other airlines organize escort services for you even when arriving on a different ticket. Air France should do the same for their P passengers.
Continuing on ground services: not overwhelming at outstations, with JFK being a positive albeit not outstanding exception thanks to the P section of the lounge. Line cutting at immigration and security works well in some places (USA on departure is a positive experience) but in the other places I've arrived they didn't offer it. On departure often there is no cutting of lines at security or passport control, and then lounges often range from mediocre (GRU) to really underwhelming (BEY). In some AF-opreated lounges they have private rooms which are nice (BOS). Something could be done on the ground, and my experience from LH and LX shows that more is possible.
For ground services at mediumhaul outstations: Air France tries to offer some special attention for instance at places like GVA or ZRH, but I found that rather to be a nuisance than a help. I was stressed and pushed to arrive at the gate super early by some over-panicking ground agent, which would have meant sitting around and waiting for the plane to land, dock, disembark, get cleaned, before boarding starts. I rather go to one of the nice airport cafes or to a lounge and then turn up when the plane really does board.
On board catering: yep, not much choice, and quality not on same levels as others (Lufthansa or Swiss in First, Qatar in Business).
Last wish/proposal: WiFi on board. It does make a difference to me. Some travelers are against it, arguing that flying is for them a moment where they don't want to be reached. To me those are cases of people who can't manage their connectivity in general: if they feel that having a network connection means that they *have* to respond to calls/mails, then that is something that will make their life horrible not just in the air but also on the ground. I rather prefer having the choice to connect or not respond whenever I want and do the things that I want. On a 10 or 12 hour flight I can very well see myself doing some work for 2 or 3 hours rather than arrive at destination with my inbox exploding and me having to deal with it after a long flight and jet lag. Also, since airlines do invest into making time fly by, it is only logical to offer some past-times that rely on connectivity. On recent flights I have planned my holiday by browsing through web pages, downloading travel guides, emailing with tour operators, etc. Or Live TV: I have watched one of the US presidential debates on a flight between California and Germany. Air France should invest into that for their long haul fleet (I believe they actually are).
Whilst I share your overall enthusiasm, and whilst I am personally somewhat indifferent about some of the observations (just things that I don't care that much about, such as having a car for myself or the brand of gin) I subscribe to many of the proposals that you make.
My P experience with Air France is on different destinations than you (JFK only once, and that was arriving there. Other than that mostly GRU, also BEY and SFO on the old-style A380) and I am a less frequent guest than you (eight legs this year), but still I'd like to add some observations/ideas for improvement.
Ground service in CDG is top notch as you said. Outstations something should be done for transfers to/from other flights in general (not just alliance partners). For instance, connecting to DL at JFK I skipped the escort servive because I was told that bascially I'd be on my own once I left T1, so I left it at that and walked faster than she would have and used Global Entry, which makes queue-jumping unnecessary. THere are positive examples: in GRU for instance, I was once picked up by an escort from Terminal 1 and she rode with me in a taxi to Terminal 3. My arrival was on Azul, not an AF or Skyteam partner at all. Similarly, at some airports other airlines organize escort services for you even when arriving on a different ticket. Air France should do the same for their P passengers.
Continuing on ground services: not overwhelming at outstations, with JFK being a positive albeit not outstanding exception thanks to the P section of the lounge. Line cutting at immigration and security works well in some places (USA on departure is a positive experience) but in the other places I've arrived they didn't offer it. On departure often there is no cutting of lines at security or passport control, and then lounges often range from mediocre (GRU) to really underwhelming (BEY). In some AF-opreated lounges they have private rooms which are nice (BOS). Something could be done on the ground, and my experience from LH and LX shows that more is possible.
For ground services at mediumhaul outstations: Air France tries to offer some special attention for instance at places like GVA or ZRH, but I found that rather to be a nuisance than a help. I was stressed and pushed to arrive at the gate super early by some over-panicking ground agent, which would have meant sitting around and waiting for the plane to land, dock, disembark, get cleaned, before boarding starts. I rather go to one of the nice airport cafes or to a lounge and then turn up when the plane really does board.
On board catering: yep, not much choice, and quality not on same levels as others (Lufthansa or Swiss in First, Qatar in Business).
Last wish/proposal: WiFi on board. It does make a difference to me. Some travelers are against it, arguing that flying is for them a moment where they don't want to be reached. To me those are cases of people who can't manage their connectivity in general: if they feel that having a network connection means that they *have* to respond to calls/mails, then that is something that will make their life horrible not just in the air but also on the ground. I rather prefer having the choice to connect or not respond whenever I want and do the things that I want. On a 10 or 12 hour flight I can very well see myself doing some work for 2 or 3 hours rather than arrive at destination with my inbox exploding and me having to deal with it after a long flight and jet lag. Also, since airlines do invest into making time fly by, it is only logical to offer some past-times that rely on connectivity. On recent flights I have planned my holiday by browsing through web pages, downloading travel guides, emailing with tour operators, etc. Or Live TV: I have watched one of the US presidential debates on a flight between California and Germany. Air France should invest into that for their long haul fleet (I believe they actually are).
Nov 30, 2016, 7:24 pm
#10
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 27,422
Having invested so much in so many places, I'm surprised they can't manage a proper caviar service. For an airline which doesn't hesitate to serve Cristal onboard, this seems like a no-brainer, and would round out the indulgence factor. Indeed, having a few extra tins would really create a wow.
The arrivals experience at JFK is probably the best offered by any airline in the USA. They are brilliant, and seem to have the run of the airport.
And interesting that you later mention cutting the taxi line. I can't imagine how that works! Cutting in front of a bunch of cranky New Yorkers who just arrived from overseas?!? They must have an in with the dispatcher and can more discreetly get you into a cab away from the front of the queue.
Dec 1, 2016, 3:12 am
#11
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2016
Programs: BA GGL, FB Platinum, Delta Nothing, HHonors Diamond, IAG Gold Ambassador, Ritz Silver, SPG Gold
Posts: 100
They have truffles though, at least, right? PLEASE TELL ME THEY HAVE TRUFFLES!
This is also good to hear (and as mentioned, I think for the first time). But as someone else said, with Global Entry it just doesn't really seem that...necessary. As long as my bag comes out first on the carousel (or fourth). That is always the hold-up for me at JFK.
And interesting that you later mention cutting the taxi line. I can't imagine how that works! Cutting in front of a bunch of cranky New Yorkers who just arrived from overseas?!? They must have an in with the dispatcher and can more discreetly get you into a cab away from the front of the queue.
This is also good to hear (and as mentioned, I think for the first time). But as someone else said, with Global Entry it just doesn't really seem that...necessary. As long as my bag comes out first on the carousel (or fourth). That is always the hold-up for me at JFK.
And interesting that you later mention cutting the taxi line. I can't imagine how that works! Cutting in front of a bunch of cranky New Yorkers who just arrived from overseas?!? They must have an in with the dispatcher and can more discreetly get you into a cab away from the front of the queue.
The taxi powers were amazing and not discreet. I often stay at the JFK Hilton when overnighting between flights or having a breakfast meeting before going onward, and feel silly paying for an executive car for the 5 minute ride, so I use taxis at JFK frequently. I was really shocked that the agent just brazenly walked up to the dispatcher, said a few words out of earshot, then the dispatcher held the queue of about 40 people while I was deposited in the next taxi and my bags were seen to. Brilliant, and they refused a tip.
Dec 1, 2016, 8:52 am
#12
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 53
Agreed on all points. I find the ground service with AF La Premiere to be the reason I keep booking again and again.
Having a representative help you every step of the way from check-in, security, lounge, boarding and then the reverse is great. I am always impress at CDG the ability they have to avoid customs lines.
-Pat
Having a representative help you every step of the way from check-in, security, lounge, boarding and then the reverse is great. I am always impress at CDG the ability they have to avoid customs lines.
-Pat
Dec 2, 2016, 5:12 am
#13
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Paris, France
Programs: Flying Blue (LTPE) All (Gold)
Posts: 1,519
"tartare de saumon fumé et noix de Saint-Jacques, oeufs de saumon et agrumes"
delicious
For truffle, at P lounge in CDG, you may eat "Elbow pasta with ham and black truffle"...
no photo because I ate the famous "Cookpot of seasonal vegetables, crushed tops"
with a marvelous Riesling:
Last edited by delanotre; Dec 2, 2016 at 5:31 am
Dec 2, 2016, 6:48 am
#15
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Seat 1A, Juice pretty much everywhere, Mucci des Coins Exotiques
Posts: 34,339