brunos

I am not sure that it will be limited to nasty looks.
Apparently, the OP has a return ticket, although OP never responded to that question. Hence, he must use the ORY-LCY segment.
In any case, the OP will be met on arrival of the ac to be transferred through immigration, as explained by Goldorak. Unless he can convince the escort to take him to the P lounge, I do not see how he will get there on his own. But even if he finds a way to get there on his own, it is not obvious that he will be let in by arguing that he has a "bogus" ticket CDG-LHR while his itin shows ORY-LCY.
I suggest that the only solution is to call before the trip and ask for lounge access for a few hour because of the long layover. If they agree, then he will directly be escorted to the P lounge and they will have an agent taking him back to the domestic area after a few hours. I don't see how buying a CDG-LHR ticket would help, knowing that the AF system will show a ticket JFK-CDG/ORY-LCY.

KL803

Isn't there a border check inside the lounge for itineraries like NYC-CDG-ZRH? I remember being in transit from SIN to ZRH. The PA asked me to leave my passport with her for the border inspection (entry to Schengen). She gave it back to me before I transferred on the Limo to the ZRH flight.

Besides, I'd follow brunos advice: Given the numerous positive reports of calling either the Platinum line (if applicable to the OP) or + 33 (0) 1 56 93 10 05 (La Première ground services as mentioned in this post) the whole dilemma might turn out quite well in the end; with no guarantees of course.

brunos

Apparently the P lounge has a very special arrangement with the French "police des frontieres". That probably requires that every pax be "escorted" by an AF agent. Technically, the lounge is in the international area of the airport (meaning beyond French border controls). But to get there, you can leave your passport to an agent who will do the police procedure for you. So you have not really cleared immigration when you get there. When in transit arriving in P and going to a Schengen country, I believe that the escort does the immigration procedure and you go to your Schengen flight without further procedure, as described by KL803 (I had the same experience many years ago). So the lounge hosts a pax who is already cleared to enter France/Schengen.

I do not see anything wrong with those procedures from an immigration/security viewpoint. And it suggests that the P lounge agents have flexibility

Goldorak

The typical occupancy of the P lounge is about 20-25 pax between 5 am to 2 pm then it is usually empty (0 to 5 pax) between 2 pm and 5 pm, 10 pax for 5-7 pm and about 20 pax for the late evening departure bank (8-11 pm).

toastedcafe

Have only been in that lounge twice and don't have so much info about it. However, I suggest that the OP do as suggested by Brunos and KL803, call la premiere found service and explain the problem!

orbitmic

That's basically the advice the OP was given some days ago in the previous thread that he/she opened on this (complete with warnings that they would likely say no as to my knowledge, the people who have contacted the P team to ask to use the P lounge as arrivals lounge, which is effectively what the OP would need have been politely but firmly refused.)

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-f...-question.html

PS: it is correct that departure/transit immigration formalities are conducted at the P lounge, but to my knowledge never arrivals formalities as such, and in this case, the OP would not have gone through that if entering on the basis of the pretext CDG-LHR as that would lead to a combined purely international itinerary.

It is also correct that there is a procedure for exit from the P lounge in case of IRROPS etc, so there is certainly no suggestion that the OP will be "trapped forever" or forced to take the LHR flight, but as San Gottardo points out and as I hinted, I doubt that lounge staff will be too impressed by the scheme, and as a result, I suspect that they will not go out of their way to make this as smooth/easy/quick as possible and as they would as a result of a cancelled flight.

As for the question of whether they can do any more than dark look (on the assumption that the OP manages to enter the P lounge on the basis of the CDG-LHR ticket, then leaves, makes his ORY-LCY flight etc) is open to question. People buying a ticket that they do not intend to use to enter a lounge is something discussed more than occasionally on FT. In most cases, it goes undetected (person buys a ticket, goes through security, scans into lounge, leaves quietly without anyone noticing, cancels flight, and that's the end of the story. Again, I do not think that the "unnoticed" bit is a credible possibility here by any stretch of the imagination). On the other end of the spectrum, some people have done this multiple times, been noticed, and faced lifetime bans from the airline. I doubt that things would go to such an extreme on the basis of a one off, but whilst I am not aware of AF procedures, I would imagine that any agent made aware of what is being proposed here would at least be obliged to report it to their hierarchy, even if in my opinion it is then likely to be filed and forgotten thereafter.

San Gottardo

They do indeed. I have taken several Longhaul->CDG->Schengen connections, and the passport control happened in the background as far as I can recall.

So, in theory the OP could buy a bogus CDG-Schengen ticket - let's say to Lisbon - and go through the P lounge and enter the Schengen area there, rather than through some back door. But that is only in theory.

1. When booked on a connecting flight the escorts from the P lounge take the passenger by limousine to the jetway of the connecting flight, without even passing by the gate agent's counter. Which would mean that the OP would be standing in front of the door to his flight to Lisbon, with the P escort by his side who is just about to introduce him to the CdC, when the OP fakes a flash recall "I just remember that I actually have a flight from Orly to London, so I don't need to go to Lisbon". Probably nothing illegal, but the OP would look like a complete $@@@££ (some people don't mind, and there are millions of passengers who look like **££@@ every day just because they can't do better)
2. It doesn't solve the problem of the ORY-LCY leg being invalidated, which in case there is a return flight, invalidates the rest of the ticket

There is something else that I just don't get. Someone flies to Paris, arguably one of the most interesting places on this planet, has something like ten hours of free time, needs to leave the airport anyway to catch a connecting flight from another airport in Paris - and all that person can think of is to spend the time in an airport lounge??? Maybe I completely underestimate the cultural and touristic attractiveness of central Alabama and Birmingham (the BHM Birmingham, not where the Brummies live), and after flying from there the OP is saturated with culture, history, innovative things, art, architecture and fine food to a point where Paris is boring. But I'd venture to speculate that Paris has enough interesting things to offer to be more interesting than an airport lounge? Even if all the OP is interested in is a place that has great food, superb champagne and the name of a famous hotel written on the menu it would be so much more enriching to go downtown and visit the real Plaza Athenee, where there is more choice of food, the place is more interesting and larger and more authentic than in the lounge. Even limo service can be arranged, Uber "Berline" in Paris is typically Mercedes S Class, and the ride in them would even last longer than the six minutes crawling at 40 km/h over the CDG Tarmac. Or the Plaza Athenee can arrange for something even posher (I am sure they can get a Rolls Royce if that is what is needed). If it's the spa the OP is after, I am sure the great spa at the Plaza Atheneewhere one can go for a day spa is better than any experience an airport lounge can offer.

So rather than post multiple threads on how to trick the system I'd recommend the following websites http://www.fodors.com/world/europe/france/paris, http://www.timeout.com/Paris

But as I said, I may underestimate central Alabama and what it has to offer. I've never been.

stimpy

When I was last there during lunch, a guy sitting at the next table over was saying that his flight was in the evening. So I guess he was going to relax and maybe snooze in the lounge while waiting. Perhaps he'd already been to Paris plenty of times. Perhaps he didn't have a visa for France. Whatever the reason, he chose to spend many hours in the P lounge. It's hardly unheard of even in lesser lounges.

San Gottardo

I get that there are situations which lend themselves to it, e.g. When you don't have a visa to leave the airport or when your next best connecting flight is in the evening after an arrival from North America and a connection to Africa. But in this case the OP has to leave the airport anyway, so he needs a Schengen visa anyway, and he is doing all kinds of shenanigans just to get into a lounge?

I may sound blasé to say it's "only a lounge" when we all know that it is one of the most pleasant ways to spend waiting time at an airport. I'd never suggest not to use the P lounge instead of another lounge at CDG and I can even understand people that would pay a little more or have an hour longer trip when they can get the CDG Premiere experience instead of the LHR one for instance. But how blasé must one be to find Paris more boring than an airport lounge?

Well, to each his own.

brunos

I really thin that the OP should totally forget about the silly idea of a bogus CDG=LHR flight. Instead the OP should request that the AF P limo that usually takes P pax to the CDG-departing plane simply drives all the way to the ORY-departing plane.

San Gottardo

Or all the way to London. The OP can then make up his mind whether he wants LCY of LHR when coming out of the tunnel in Folkestone.

carnarvon

It looks like the OP has lost interest in his own case...

ishihara

No didn't lose interest, was just traveling.

So I booked a CDG-LHR flight. When I arrived in CDG, I told them I changed my flight to leave out of CDG. They had no problem taking me to the P lounge.

To try to answer some of the questions in the thread...

Yes, I did fly the old product. I wanted to experience it before it's removed. I found it to be as comfortable if not more so than other F products currently on the market.

I booked the LCY portion because it resulted in a very inexpensive ticket. I'm not worried about my return -- I booked it as throwaway.

I booked this whole thing to experience AF F, their ground service and the lounge. I've been to Paris over 20 times and love the city. So don't worry, I haven't been missing out there.

re: creating multiple threads. The threads were two different topics. Why is FT so hostile?

carnarvon

Your thread is titled "Flying La Premiere first time"

It starts with "This will be my first trip in La Premiere".

With due respect, they don't look that different.

With the same respect, your story does not look very credible.

ishihara

Yes, it was my first trip in La Premiere. I posted this before my trip. I'm now back.

The two threads were different. One was asking if I'd be allowed into the lounge and I was explaining my situation. The other was asking what the lounge had to offer and how to maximize my time.

And what do you mean my "story" doesn't look credible??