myn4

AC reaches deal with pilots, 777/787 order to go forward
Friday June 10, 2005
Air Canada was expected to finalize its recent widebody fleet replacement order with Boeing after it reached a tentative agreement with its pilots yesterday covering operation of the aircraft.AC said the accord covers "costs and other related issues relating to the introduction of the new Boeing widebody aircraft" into its fleet, but it did not elaborate. The deal is now subject to ratification by union members.

AC placed the order in April (ATWOnline, April 26) but it was subject to completion of several conditions by June 10, including negotiation of satisfactory terms with its pilots. Boeing has extended the deadline to June 19 to allow sufficient time for a ratification vote, and if approved the aircraft order will go forward. Robert Milton, CEO of parent company ACE Aviation Holdings, said this week at a Merrill Lynch investor conference that the airline could have canceled the order by June 10 without penalty.

The firm order includes a mix of 16 777-300ERs and 777-200LRs plus two of the newly launched 777-200Fs, as well as purchase rights for an additional 18 777s. It also includes 14 firm 787s consisting of 787-8s and 787-9s, plus options and purchase rights for an additional 46. Deliveries of the 777s are slated to begin next year while the first 787 is scheduled to arrive in 2010.

by Loren Farrar

Overwing

[QUOTE=parnel]Parnel, why would I or anyone bother to address any subject with you, it is very obvious that you have your mind made up and I doubt it will change.

I will say this about augmentation as it seems to be the bee that is most in your bonnet. You fully expect 2 people to operate a machine for up to 20 hours without a break, then I am glad I am not employed by you, and thankful the government does not share your view either.

Why is it that when you fly BA or SQ or any other airline that is not headquartered in Canada that augemntation is not an issue. SQ, CX, BA, AA, UAL, LH to name a few all have augmentation standards that are far and away better than Canada.

Your Rome example highlights the dividing line on where the augmentation rules kick in. If it were up to me the Rome would be augmented eastbound and not west, because the eastbound portion is a all night flight, but in Air Canada's view they choose to do it the other way around because of this 1 hour difference. If the third crewmember is there anyway, why not have the flight augmented both ways ???

To the fellow that suggested that because he has been in the simulator and can do the job just as easily as any pilot, that is a pretty myopic view in my opinion. Just curious if he tried it with the autopilot off ?? Fill your boots go get a licence, Air Canada is going to be hiring for a course in July.

stinger

[QUOTE=Overwing]
And how often do you pilots do anything without autopilot? Anyway, not to rain on your profession but I also don't know how to work a meter in a cab, or a cash register but I am sure I could learn quite easily. By the same token, most pilots don't have a personality so they couldn't do my job. You are just another example. Thanks for clearing things up for me and ensuring I can look forward to a long and fruitful career riding in the back of your taxis with more expensive meters.

greywolf

[QUOTE=Overwing]I tried it with the autopilot off. I landed the plane the first time. And as everyone will tell you, I was extremely sleep deprived and nodding off at the time.

It's really not that hard to fly a plane. Obviously it requires training to handle emergency situations, but if I could I would take a pilot's job any day.

Then again I landed the space shuttle simulator at the Virginia Air and Space museum and it spat out a recruitment card for NASA :P

why fly

[QUOTE=Overwing]If pilots still want J seats after I looked at the link to the 777 pilot seating... they can &^%$$## it ..... What the matter with those J seats? and bed?

OK I agree a 3rd pilot might be needed for long haul flights but NO way to Rome thats NOT long haul!!!! Long haul should start after 10 hr flights! UGH how the Union every got the airline to sign for 8 Hrs??
RM is a nightmare, but lets not kid ourselves for the first time he is "dead on" on the pilot agreement. PS what about Ulta Long Haul flights..... Have the pilots Union settled on that yet?

Shareholder

It was a little something called a strike that shut AC down at the height of the summer travel season and plunged the country into near-chaos, ruining more vacations than the collapse of either JetsGo or C3K combined.

AC's pilots really don't care about the company or the customers. They've demonstrated it at every opportunity, until they realized the company was about to be liquidated. Now that they see a high stock price [down $2 on the day so far, wonder who the Anonymous buyer is who's at least keeping it over $40?] and potential of operating profits, they're back to their old game again.

Remember PanAm, remember Eastern...

passport

As noted a the end of para 1, this was subject to a vote of the membership. They voted against the deal and the Boeing order has been cancelled.

Shareholder

But these aren't on the 777-300s AC would have started receiving next year.

As for refurbishment, it is a setback, but given AC has been preparing for this for a long while, it is a matter of dusting off Plan A, which was put away when the Boeing deal was announced. The Boeing deal would have delivered 787 style interiors, but the seats would still be the ones AC had already been evaluating and was to have made a decision on last month. The $200 million will go towards that and new cabin panels. Carpeting decisions were approved last year, according to an article in HORIZONS, and have been underway meaning the basic colour scheme has been decided.

Rejuvenated

Tell me about it. Those 763 interiors seem like they haven't been rennovated in decades.

Rejuvenated

I agree. But this is not just limited to AC. Many other pilots with other carriers these days can care less about their employers (company) and the people putting money (customers) into the firm which in turns generates their paychecks.

Sebring

You seem to be more agitated that your expectations were raised, but in reality, nothing has changed. The same planes that are flying today would have been flying in AC colors 3, 5 even 10 years from now. Ac was getting two 777s for next summer, and with a year's lead time, I would expect AC to be able to find some 340s or 330s for next summer. The 763s are going to be refurbished. They were going to be refurbished under ANY scenario.

As for Milton and the order, the only logistical way to have assured pilot acceptance of the deal before it was made public was to put it to a vote before it was made public, in which case it wouldn't have been a secret anyway. So a No vote still would have dashed your expectations.

AC couldn't have bargained theoretical deals with ACPA because the ACPA contract specifies actual aircraft types, sizes and weights.

Had AC stopped the negotiating process to put a Boeing deal to an ACPA negotiation and vote, then the world would have learned about the deal and Airbus would have pulled its offer off the table

Had AC waited until it had the best offer of both sides, and gone through a negotiation and vote, the world would have learned about the deal and you still would have been agitated to get, and then lose, your beautiful 777s and 787s. That scenario pretty much gets us to the place we are today, only with a couple of fewer press releases.

Historically, airlines have bought their planes and negotiated pilot rates later, but that has proven to be increasingly problematic. Delta did that with the 777 and ALPA put a gun to its head when the planes were actually on the property. Now that's an embarrassment for management. They actually cut the size of the 777 order because the pilots wanted to extort Caviar terms.

So I think AC played it like it had to. It took a safe course. Today, Milton is undoubtedly embarassed, but the only way for a CEO to avoid such embarassments is to give away the farm in negotiations. I'm sure AC could have got an ACPA deal if it had been rich enough for the pilots. A good CEO has to be a risk taker, and if a CEO is never embarassed by having something he wants blow up in his face, I don't think he is doing a very good job of looking out for shareholders.

Finally, though I am very pro AC management as everybody knows, I have not lost a minute's sleep over this. In an earlier career I taught history, and if there is one thing I know in the history of aviation, it's that sometime in the next few years, there will be a downturn in the industry and airlines will be cancelling orders. (And I can't believe that all of the startup Indian carriers ordering airplanes are going to make it. This used market, now tight, is going to be flooded with good aircraft.) Delivery slots will open up like magic. If AC is profitable or at least not debt-encumbered, it will be able to move in and take planes off Boeing hands. It won't be quite the predictable process Milton had envisioned, but AC will get to where it wants to be.

Global guy

I think RM played the cards he was dealt. He knew there would be an issue with pilots ratifying the agreement so he insisted on the conditional clause with Boeing. Now this seniority mess- which really is not a issue that would garner much public sympathy is pitted against getting new fuel efficient and more conformatble aircraft- something the company can use to leverage public opinion quite effectively. I think this is just another of this 'dance' with pilot's union and I suspect we have not heard the end of it.

parnel

[QUOTE=Overwing][QUOTE=parnel]

First of all thanks for taking the time to come on.......I figured you were running for cover

Not really; its the taking of J seats that bothers me on routes like DEL. First of all you take two J seats and in all my flts to and from DEL I've never seen more than one pilot in a seat. And the DEL flts are always pretty full. You have the crew beds on these flts as well. One flt I was given one of the two pilot seats and was ordered out of it by the pilot,to another J seat and then never saw one of them sit in either seat.



Then go fly with them;AC has its rules and they are the employer.

Disagree totally; eight or nine hours what's the difference LHR and FRA don't have augmentation and they are night flts. That's a whole issue you pilots have made up and its normally called featherbedding. I see no safety issues there over one hour of flying time. Part of the problem s that many many pilots commute from places other than the GTA in the FCO case and have to start their day much earlier in order to get to work on time. Again, if the employee were deicated he/she would get there early, rent a day room, and get some rest before they fly, which some dedicated pilots do.

There was some tongue in cheek there, but, I have been on 320 sims and 737's. There is a great difference in skill sets betwen the old 737 technology and flying a 320 and it does appear a lot easier to fly a 320 from a pilot's perspective and the insructor for the 737 agreed with that comment.


So, when are you going to admit that the pilots union is all screwed up and that you have stabbed yourselves in the foot and possibly in the heart over this vote.

Shareholder

Surely you're not suggesting those A380s being ordered by KINGFISHER AIRLINES won't ply their DEL-BOM-DEL shuttle route afterall?

Overwing

[QUOTE=why fly]
From Flight International . . . .


FLIGHT INTERNATIONAL ULTRA- LONG-HAUL ARTICLE
24 February 2004

MAX KINGSLEY-JONES / LONDON AND DUBAI

The Airbus A340-500 and Boeing 777-200LR are making ultra-long-haul services a reality. However, the human factor must also be considered.

The airline industry's long-held vision of non-stop flights from anywhere to anywhere has moved a step closer in recent months, with the launch of ultra-long-haul (ULR) services using the Airbus A340-500. With Boeing's similarly capable 777-200LR due in service within two years, ULR flights - arbitrarily defined as being greater than 16h in duration - look set to become an increasingly important sector of the "long, thin route" market.

With aircraft and flightcrew, not to mention passengers, successfully being stretched to the limits of their endurance, some believe the industry could eventually achieve the ultimate dream of having an aircraft that never needs to divert, crewed by pilots who operate to ship-like rosters and need never take a long-haul stopover.

Emirates inaugurated direct 14h flights between its Dubai base and Sydney in December with its A340-500s, and will use the three-class 258-seaters to launch its first US services later this year. Although the initial services will be 12h flights to the US East Coast, Emirates later plans to operate direct US West Coast flights to Los Angeles and San Francisco - which will have a duration of more than 16h.

On 3 February, Singapore Airlines (SIA) set a new world distance record for commercial services, when one of its A340-500s inaugurated non-stop services from its Changi airport base in Singapore to Los Angeles (LAX). The 14h 42min flight covered a distance of 14,100km (7,600nm) - 1,000km further than the previous record (Hong Kong to New York Newark). The return leg from LAX to Changi, which is against the winds, takes more than 18h.

SIA will break its own distance record in June, when it launches direct flights from Changi to Newark - a distance of 16,600km westbound and 15,800km eastbound (see graphic). These flights will last around 18h in each direction. To ensure that passengers on these routes are comfortable, SIA has configured its -500s with just 181 seats (compared to Airbus's three-class specification of 313 seats).

With in-flight issues rather than range now the limiting factor in making diversions, Airbus is progressively working through the list to achieve its vision of creating a "never have to divert" environment. "This is our aim, which we can achieve with our four-engine redundancy and by addressing other issues that cause diversions," it says.

Medical help

Airbus believes many diversions can be prevented by equipping the aircraft with on-board medical equipment that can be linked directly to medical centres, and training crews in the use of defibrillators. Equipping the cargo bay with cameras would enable crews to avoid unnecessary diversions due to spurious freight fire warnings, Airbus adds.

So, ultimately, the flightcrew could be the limiting factor. Despite the fact that non-stop sectors in excess of 12h have been relatively commonplace for more than a decade, there is still no industry-wide regulation for flight-crew duty time on ULR flights. In fact, since the introduction of the Boeing 747-400 in 1989 heralded the first regular direct Europe-Asia non-stop sectors, it has been an ongoing task for the Joint Aviation Authorities to draw up a pan-European set of guidelines - so far without success.

With the 747-400's range capability effectively being the yardstick for flight-duty time limits, the A340-500 and 777-200LR would be constrained by current guidelines for flights beyond the -400's 14-15h endurance.

"Airbus and Boeing undertook a joint initiative using the Flight Safety Found-ation [FSF] as their forum, to ensure that the ultra-long-range capability of their new aircraft wasn't constrained," says Emirates senior vice-president flight operations Capt Chris Knowles. "There were three meetings - in Washington DC in 2001, in Paris in 2002 and in Kuala Lumpur in 2003. We participated in all three."

The FSF published its findings in mid-2003 and, with Emirates pioneering A340-500 operations, the GCAA, the UAE's civil aviation authority, has used the results to develop a regulatory guidance document for ULR flights - CAAP14.

"This is designed to be consistent with the findings of the FSF ULR meetings, and describes a method to enable us to operate ULR flights, rather than prescriptive legislation," says Knowles.

Before approval for a ULR mission, the GCAA requires operators to prepare an operational plan for each city pair being considered. Emirates's plan has been developed by its flight operations support department, headed by Brian Miles. The airline is basing its ULR crewing scheme on the UK Civil Aviation Authority's CAP371, which enables the extension of flight duty time through the use of augmented flightcrew to allow crew members to have rest periods in flight.

Generally, flights beyond 8h require a third pilot, while those beyond 12h require that a second crew of two pilots (captain and first officer) relieve the first twocrew and operate the cruise portion of the flight, although specific arrangements are usually subject to agreements between airlines and their unions.

According to Emirates, although the CAP371 document works in general, strict interpretation can create impractical crew complement requirements, particularly if the flight is departing late in the day local time. "So we have worked with the GCAA on CAAP14 to cover certain augmented operations below the 16h ULR level. These are defined as being specific long-range [SLR] operations and are designated in agreement with UAE authorities," says Knowles.

Emirates' initial A340-500 long-range route, between Dubai and Sydney, falls below the ULR limit and therefore its operational plan is based on the SLR requirements of CAAP14, says Knowles. "The operational approval process for ULR and SLR flights is the same, although obviously the scope of work required for ULR missions is more demanding," says Knowles. He adds that the operational plan will be subject to refinement and change based on operational experience and feedback.

Augmented crew

Until the arrival of the A340-500, Emirates' longest flights were 10-12h sectors such as those between Dubai and Osaka and Perth. These are operated by an augmented crew comprising three pilots. "For the SLR and later ULR flights, we operate with four pilots - two captains and two first officers - one operating crew and one augmenting crew," says Knowles.

Following the take-off flown by the operating crew, the augmenting crew rest for several hours. They then relieve the operating crew who rest, before returning to the flightdeck for descent and landing. Each crew is allocated around 5h rest during the flight, of which at least 3h is "horizontal" .

Emirates A340-500s are equipped with a flightcrew rest compartment in the bulk cargo hold in the rear fuselage. Two bunks are provided to enable pilots to take "horizontal rest", as required by CAAP14, during specified rest periods. The compartment is equipped with humidifiers to increase the humidity from 5% to 25% to improve the atmosphere for rest.

Unlike other human conditions, such as inebriation, "it is difficult to measure how tired you are", says Knowles. Rest requirements have been drawn up in conjunction with Emirates Group aviation medicine specialists, including the head of the airline's clinic Dr Ian Hosegood.

"We make sure crews have enough sleep before commencing an SLR/ULR flight - advising that they have two complete local nights off duty before the flight - and we roster one rest day after the flight and a day off before operating another trip," says Knowles. In comparison, the off-duty time between normal trips could be just 12h. A similar rest requirement is stipulated for cabin crew.

Stricter regulations

Emirates also specifies that if the Sydney-bound flight, which is scheduled to depart at 10:15 local time, is delayed beyond 14:00, then a replacement flightcrew is required. With the Sydney flight's departure scheduled at 21:50 local, delays of more than 2h will generally be held until the following day due to the airport's night-time curfew, and a replacement crew will be required.

There are also stricter regulations for standby flightcrew, with the requirement that any pilot called up for an SLR/ULR flight will have begun standby duty not more than 2h before the planned departure. It is also the intent that such crew will meet the pre-flight off-duty and rest requirements mentioned earlier.

As part of its operational plan, Emirates provides advice to pilots on how best to adjust their body clocks depending on their function on the flight, and to "de-synchronise" the body clocks of the operating and augmenting crews so that they are tired at different times.

The airline's medical staff have timed each crew's rest periods, where possible, to coincide with their window of circadian low, in other words the body clock time when propensity to sleep is higher (ie the main window of 24:00-07:00 and smaller window between 14:00 and 17:00). During the flight, each crew is advised to either avoid or drink caffeine at certain times, depending on their rest requirements.

Feedback

Emirates's safety department has set up a steering committee to review feedback from the crews on SLR and ULR flights, which has input from the group's medical department. The committee is providing summaries of the feedback to the GCAA, along with descriptions of any action or changes implemented.

SIA operates its A340-500 ULR flights along similar lines to Emirates using ULR regulations that have been issued by the Singapore civil aviation authority, CAAS. The airline is undertaking a detailed study of crew fatigue and alertness on its ULR flights in conjunction with the European Committee for Aircrew Scheduling and Safety (ECASS) and New Zealand's Massey University - the latter has already been involved in a Boeing study into pilot fatigue on 777 ferry flights with SIA pilots. The ULR study's findings will be used to validate the CAAS's ULR regulations, and possibly to modify them.

The airline declined to be interviewed by Flight International about its ULR operations as it is currently involved in negotiations with its pilot unions over broader pay and conditions issues, but has provided some outline details of procedures. SIA reached agreement with its pilots on crewing arrangements for the A340-500s in January. Following the example of Emirates, flights are operated with two sets of crew, each consisting of a captain and first officer. Each pilot has the opportunity of having two rest periods in the A340-500's crew rest compartment, says SIA, taking turns to rest for about 3-4h each time.

"According to SIA company policy one of the rest periods must be more than 4h," says William Teng, industrial secretary at the pilot's union ALPA-S.

SIA has provided guidelines and routines to enable its flightcrews to endure ULR flight operations. "Crews are being trained on in-flight rest/sleep management, circadian rhythm disruptions, alertness management, fatigue countermeasures and stress management," says the airline.

According to Teng, the tests into mental alertness use electro encephalogram (EEG) machines, which measure brain waves to create an electro-encephalograph. He adds that SIA may change its ULR procedures depending on the outcome of the CAAS/Massey University research.

The CAAS carried out an initial study last year, and the latest investigation, which began with SIA's launch of revenue ULR flights on 3 February, is due to end in July. The authority says that there are several prongs to the evaluation, starting with a pilot's diary: "This will enable the pilots to record individually their rest/duty cycle and sleepiness/alertness scales," it says.

Sleep quality

Crews will also participate in actigraphy studies, wearing devices on their wrist to measure sleep quality, as well as performance measurements using vigilance and tracking tests - "vigtrack". Polysomnogra- phy will also be undertaken, which is the scientific evaluation of sleep.

A polysomnograph converts electrical impulses into a graphical representation to understand what is happening to the body during sleep. Bodily activities are monitored including brain waves, eye movements, muscle activity, heartbeat, blood oxygen levels and respiration. An interim report is due for completion in April.

SIA's cabin crew are also undergoing a ULR fatigue management training programme. The Los Angeles flights are serviced by 14 cabin crew, with each member given around 4-5h rest on each flight. "They will take turns to rest and will manage their rest periods among themselves," says the airline.

"We've still got a lot to learn about how to deal with ULR flights," says Emirates' Knowles. "For example where is the best place to locate the crew rest area, or what sort of lighting helps? The time-zone changes are in fact more of an issue than flight duration itself."

Emirates president Tim Clark has a long-term vision for the industry that could eliminate this time-zone problem. He believes that the next generation of long-range airliners, such as the proposed 650-seat Airbus A380-900 stretch, could be equipped with the ultimate in on-board crew rest facilities, including showers, enabling pilots to operate the aircraft using a shift pattern similar to a ship's roster.

"Crews could operate ultra-long haul flights to a 4h-on/4h-off pattern, and when they get to the destination, they'd turn around and fly back without need to acclimatise to different time zones," he says.

And Clark has a simple solution to winning the pilots over to his plan: "The savings generated by not having to put crews up would be given back to them in their pay packet," he says.