Pilots vote "NO" to 787s and 777s
Jun 19, 2005, 9:30 pm
#121
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Originally Posted by cedric
When I want to rest, I lie on the couch and watch TV. So what? A person does not need to sleep in order to rest - anything that requires less concentration, etc. is sufficient.
Jun 19, 2005, 10:36 pm
#122
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Originally Posted by parnel
Whats your take on dash 8's across the Pacific if AC cannot get any approvals from pilots for wide bodies. 
Jun 20, 2005, 12:10 am
#123
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This story just reported on King 5 TV in Seattle 11 pm news.
AC Cancels order due to pilot group deciding not to radify agreement.
Well i have pitty for all you AC flyers, those jets of yours arent getting any younger.
AC Cancels order due to pilot group deciding not to radify agreement.
Well i have pitty for all you AC flyers, those jets of yours arent getting any younger.
Jun 20, 2005, 12:18 am
#124
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Originally Posted by Simon
How does the union seniority thing have anything to do with AC executive?
It is an internal matter in the union, and with the courts/CIRB.
It is an internal matter in the union, and with the courts/CIRB.
Jun 20, 2005, 12:21 am
#125
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[QUOTE=parnel]
Well I always go for the most cost effective route to saving money......unfortunately we live in a socialist country and you are even more aware of that than I since you live off that system
If you think long enough about a problem there is a solution and I don't think a major international ailrine should be held hostage by a bunch of prima doinnas and the thugs that represent them.
And he is right..the BS I've seen on longhauls to places like DEL with "rest" pilots is sick. They sit and watch movies or flirt with som FA but almost never sleep. The rules for pilots were designed many years ago when flying was a talent and real work and not the "taxi driver" job it now is due to automation.
As for missing the point of it all...not quite;my focus was on punishing the pilots for their stupidity.
That has got to be one of the most pathetic posts ever put on an internet forum.
It is very obvious that you have not got the slightest clue about the subject other to make a Parnel type rant.
That is enough for me around here . . .
Originally Posted by Shareholder
Well I always go for the most cost effective route to saving money......unfortunately we live in a socialist country and you are even more aware of that than I since you live off that system
If you think long enough about a problem there is a solution and I don't think a major international ailrine should be held hostage by a bunch of prima doinnas and the thugs that represent them.
And he is right..the BS I've seen on longhauls to places like DEL with "rest" pilots is sick. They sit and watch movies or flirt with som FA but almost never sleep. The rules for pilots were designed many years ago when flying was a talent and real work and not the "taxi driver" job it now is due to automation.
As for missing the point of it all...not quite;my focus was on punishing the pilots for their stupidity.
That has got to be one of the most pathetic posts ever put on an internet forum.
It is very obvious that you have not got the slightest clue about the subject other to make a Parnel type rant.
That is enough for me around here . . .
Jun 20, 2005, 2:48 am
#126
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Originally Posted by parnel
The fact remains that 777 and 787's are much more cost efficient for AC to operate. and its got nothing to with pax preferences as you said because the comfort level does not change. A ten percent operating advantage over the life of the aircraft is a lot of money and the pilots will pay for their indiscretion because if AC has to go back to AB they will negotiate accordingly during the next round of bargaining for a CLA to recuperate those costs.
Actually if AC retains the 333 / 343/5 and adds to them is not necessarily negative. Their Airbus wide-body fleet is still quite young compared so expanding it with some new 332's and 346's would fit and is generally comparable with the extra capacity the 787 and 777 would have provided. And avoid pilots training on a new a/c type.
Last edited by BOH; Jun 20, 2005 at 3:36 am
Jun 20, 2005, 4:34 am
#127
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[QUOTE=Overwing]
That has got to be one of the most pathetic posts ever put on an internet forum.
It is very obvious that you have not got the slightest clue about the subject other to make a Parnel type rant.
That is enough for me around here . . .
Of course that would be the answer coming from the spoiled brat group called ACPA.
And, overwing I fly pretty regularly and see this stuff and hear the complaints from other AC groups like the FA's,etc.
Why don't you address the subject and the reasons for the no vote instead of your RANT. Taking your toys and leaving gives one the impression you can't stand the heat and the fact 90% of the posts on this thread are not sympathetic to your cause.
Lets do another one then. How about YYZ/FCO? One pilot dead heads over because on the way back there is one hour more flying time(9 hours) and the contract provides for a rest period after 8 hours. Is that logical and productive. So ***** and moan but the facts remain. Life is too easy and you do not earn the money you make at the top end of the senioity ladder.
Flying and getting paid by aircraft weight...........make a lot of sense? Give me a break.
Originally Posted by parnel
That has got to be one of the most pathetic posts ever put on an internet forum.
It is very obvious that you have not got the slightest clue about the subject other to make a Parnel type rant.
That is enough for me around here . . .
And, overwing I fly pretty regularly and see this stuff and hear the complaints from other AC groups like the FA's,etc.
Why don't you address the subject and the reasons for the no vote instead of your RANT. Taking your toys and leaving gives one the impression you can't stand the heat and the fact 90% of the posts on this thread are not sympathetic to your cause.
Lets do another one then. How about YYZ/FCO? One pilot dead heads over because on the way back there is one hour more flying time(9 hours) and the contract provides for a rest period after 8 hours. Is that logical and productive. So ***** and moan but the facts remain. Life is too easy and you do not earn the money you make at the top end of the senioity ladder.
Flying and getting paid by aircraft weight...........make a lot of sense? Give me a break.
Last edited by parnel; Jun 20, 2005 at 5:17 am
Jun 20, 2005, 5:47 am
#128
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Class Action Shareholders' Suit against dissident pilots anyone?
It is quite likely that ACE shares will take a plunge in two hour's time when the TSX opens. That will remove a few million from the value of the company's shares, and out of the pockets of a lot of folks, including a few here.
The GLOBE ran a front-page, main headline story about the rejection this morning and in it mentioned the names of the three pilots who led the campaign against a possitive ratification of the agreement. Michael Lang, Glen Philips and Nick Cassidy are the culprits and leaders of the Original Air Canada pilots group who circulated a memo to their comrades calling for a rejection of the pact.
Perhaps Parnel knows a lawyer who would be interested in launching a class action suit on behalf of all ACE shareholders against the three men personally to claim back the value of the drop in ACE's share price? Let's channel this rage into constructive action. If AC won't fire these turds, then maybe we shareholders can bring some discipline to the ranks where it really hurts, in their big fat bank accounts!
BTW, since we are on a proper use and spelling tear, one cannot "recuperate [sic] those costs" though one can always try to recoup them.
The GLOBE ran a front-page, main headline story about the rejection this morning and in it mentioned the names of the three pilots who led the campaign against a possitive ratification of the agreement. Michael Lang, Glen Philips and Nick Cassidy are the culprits and leaders of the Original Air Canada pilots group who circulated a memo to their comrades calling for a rejection of the pact.
Perhaps Parnel knows a lawyer who would be interested in launching a class action suit on behalf of all ACE shareholders against the three men personally to claim back the value of the drop in ACE's share price? Let's channel this rage into constructive action. If AC won't fire these turds, then maybe we shareholders can bring some discipline to the ranks where it really hurts, in their big fat bank accounts!
BTW, since we are on a proper use and spelling tear, one cannot "recuperate [sic] those costs" though one can always try to recoup them.
Last edited by Shareholder; Jun 20, 2005 at 5:54 am
Jun 20, 2005, 6:16 am
#129
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Truly Dissappointing. I hope all those pilots that voted No are able to find other jobs with WJ and other carriers when the international routes stop making money due to increased foreign competition and inefficient aircraft. As I am reading the G&M article and looking as some of the decreases in salaries, I can't help but think of the pilots as a higher paid teacher. They work about 80 hours a month which is less than half of the average person. They are NOT allowed to work overtime so that is a moot point and they earn at the lowest (as quoted in the Globe) somewhere around $96k to 137K. I wonder how even this lowest wage compares to WJ.
I have even less sympathy for them since being in the SIM in YVR. They don't really do that much. I do realize they are there in case of emergency but how often does an emergency arise? Also, it is interesting that the main issue is seniority. How can I be sure that a pilot who has more seniority is a better pilot. I can't. Of all the professions this is one that should be based on ability not seniority. Truly the pilots have shown they are a joke and have lost my respect and I am sure a lot of the respect of the other AC colleagues. But hey, why would they care, especially the 30% who didn't bother to vote.
I feel bad for AC shareholders, (I hope you sold Parnel) since they are being held hostage by a bunch of underworked, overpaid, taxi drivers.
I have even less sympathy for them since being in the SIM in YVR. They don't really do that much. I do realize they are there in case of emergency but how often does an emergency arise? Also, it is interesting that the main issue is seniority. How can I be sure that a pilot who has more seniority is a better pilot. I can't. Of all the professions this is one that should be based on ability not seniority. Truly the pilots have shown they are a joke and have lost my respect and I am sure a lot of the respect of the other AC colleagues. But hey, why would they care, especially the 30% who didn't bother to vote.
I feel bad for AC shareholders, (I hope you sold Parnel) since they are being held hostage by a bunch of underworked, overpaid, taxi drivers.
Jun 20, 2005, 6:34 am
#131
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[QUOTE=DanJ]I
How about sentence structure;yours should be............If people really need to keep pointing out spelling errors.............would be the correct grammatical structure.
Hope you are you reading this.
If people really need to keep up with the pointing out of spelling errors,
they should make sure they don't have any themselves
Jun 20, 2005, 6:35 am
#132
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I would love to know if the pilots got the 6'6' beds 'Up front' and two J seats on long haul rides.... I wonder when all of the pilot perks will be leaked from the agreement.
Well SQ would love to get rid of its junk 345's.... go get them RM, leave the 767, 340 with the crap seats, and just cut ticket prices.... make AC into a junk flyer at LOW COST...
Edited, the Toronto Star mentioned the pilots would lose a business class seat in the new deal.
Well SQ would love to get rid of its junk 345's.... go get them RM, leave the 767, 340 with the crap seats, and just cut ticket prices.... make AC into a junk flyer at LOW COST...
Edited, the Toronto Star mentioned the pilots would lose a business class seat in the new deal.
Last edited by why fly; Jun 20, 2005 at 6:44 am Reason: Add Toronto Star info.
Jun 20, 2005, 6:53 am
#133
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Originally Posted by Shareholder
Michael Lang, Glen Philips and Nick Cassidy are the culprits and leaders of the Original Air Canada pilots group who circulated a memo to their comrades calling for a rejection of the pact..........................lawyer who would be interested in launching a class action suit on behalf of all ACE shareholders against the three men personally to claim back the value of the drop in ACE's share price? Let's channel this rage into constructive action. If AC won't fire these turds, then maybe we shareholders can bring some discipline to the ranks where it really hurts, in their big fat bank accounts!
Jun 20, 2005, 6:54 am
#134
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Originally Posted by why fly
Edited, the Toronto Star mentioned the pilots would lose a business class seat in the new deal.
!
Jun 20, 2005, 7:10 am
#135
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Originally Posted by Shareholder
It is quite likely that ACE shares will take a plunge in two hour's time when the TSX opens. That will remove a few million from the value of the company's shares, and out of the pockets of a lot of folks, including a few here.
The GLOBE ran a front-page, main headline story about the rejection this morning and in it mentioned the names of the three pilots who led the campaign against a possitive ratification of the agreement. Michael Lang, Glen Philips and Nick Cassidy are the culprits and leaders of the Original Air Canada pilots group who circulated a memo to their comrades calling for a rejection of the pact.
Perhaps Parnel knows a lawyer who would be interested in launching a class action suit on behalf of all ACE shareholders against the three men personally to claim back the value of the drop in ACE's share price? Let's channel this rage into constructive action. If AC won't fire these turds, then maybe we shareholders can bring some discipline to the ranks where it really hurts, in their big fat bank accounts!
BTW, since we are on a proper use and spelling tear, one cannot "recuperate [sic] those costs" though one can always try to recoup them.
The GLOBE ran a front-page, main headline story about the rejection this morning and in it mentioned the names of the three pilots who led the campaign against a possitive ratification of the agreement. Michael Lang, Glen Philips and Nick Cassidy are the culprits and leaders of the Original Air Canada pilots group who circulated a memo to their comrades calling for a rejection of the pact.
Perhaps Parnel knows a lawyer who would be interested in launching a class action suit on behalf of all ACE shareholders against the three men personally to claim back the value of the drop in ACE's share price? Let's channel this rage into constructive action. If AC won't fire these turds, then maybe we shareholders can bring some discipline to the ranks where it really hurts, in their big fat bank accounts!
BTW, since we are on a proper use and spelling tear, one cannot "recuperate [sic] those costs" though one can always try to recoup them.
Do yourself a favor and don't waste your time and money on a law suit.
It's meritless and misconcieved!
Cheers
