I'm not sure at all...what I meant to infer is that they have outsourced their IT work to IBM as to technology I think they would be using some travel industry program

[QUOTE=On the other hand, AC might have made a deliberate decision just to implement the changes without performing a full test and let the customers find the errors. There's no better test environment than the real one. This might not be a very good approach for the company image, but it can save a lot of time and money.[/QUOTE]


In the short run doing alpha live is not a bad scenario..they get it out there faster and with the exception of the so called experts here( none of whom have commented on Bell or WS's IT problems) get instant feedback and if they are set up properly they can have a task force team correcting errors as they arise and in a week or so have the system working properly and then the whining can stop

I'm curious what other outsourcer you think AC should go to? HP? CGI? EDS? Maybe the ever so very creative Apple?

The fact that AC's recent technology rollouts have been sub-par has little to do with the fact that they have outsourced to IBM Global Sevices IMHO. It has everything to do with the fact that AC's IT management are not doing their job.

IBM, like any other outsourcer, generally do what their customers ask for and if AC do not have the internal controls in place to manage their supplier agreements then shame on AC.

I think AC have some very good ideas on how to use technology - just poor execution.

That 'validator' does not seem to be much better, to judge from @:-)

I think AC is extremely shackled to a legacy world of old-fashioned business processes, requirements for interoperability, and very stringent training requirements for their employees. I believe these issues, and the culture that exists within AC, is causing many of the problems.

As one who went through a major SAP implementation in a western Canadian utility, I know first hand that if management does not have the flexibility to look at, and overhaul how business is being done insofar as business practices while such systems are implemented, system implementation efforts become massively expensive and overruns rampant.

For example, AC continues to use the paper analogue of a 'ticket' when it comes to a reservation. AC's implementation of an electronic reservation is an 'e-ticket' where they simply seek to implement the hard copy form of the 'ticket' into their computer, as well as some additional annotation.

This sort of approach to the business process artifact of a 'ticket' works great for the old-timers because they have issued and accepted a gazillion tickets in their lifetimes, but most younger employees and new managers have a terrible time wrapping their heads around the concept of a 'ticket', and how a 'ticket' differs from a 'coupon' and a 'reservation'. I bet that many new AC hires have never seen a paper ticket before, so there is a significant learning curve involved with what should be a fairly straightforward concept of a 'reservation'. Try spending time in a company that is stuck in the past -- its really discouraging for younger workers.

(for example, I got stuck in YQT one afternoon because of a CRJ going mechanical on a 6-segment cross-Canada mileage run back in 2002. it took the most experienced agent on staff a good 5 minutes to rebuild my reservation, re-endorse the 'coupons', change my reservation from 'L' inventory to Y and J inventory, and actually check me in for the turnaround flight back to YYZ. All on a completely e-ticketed reservation.)

Contrast this with the much better approach of a 'reservation' like Westjet uses. There is only one file, and it is a computer-based reservation. That piece of paper you print out when booking on the website is of completely no value. No Westjet staffer ever has to muck around with booking codes or coupons or paper tickets or e-tickets -- the only thing that exists in the Westjet IT world is a 'reservation'. A very easy concept really, and an example of an airline that didn't drag a paper 'past' into the computer age.

I could give many more examples, but I firmly believe that in an organization such as AC's, unless IT is seen as a completely strategic role, with the power to force the rest of the business to look at things such as business processes, union contracts, accounting methods, etc. -- the business will experience significantly subdued performance from their IT investments and disasters will abound as IT is forced to adapt modern technology to paper-based artifacts ('tickets', 'coupons', 'timesheets') without any consideration of whether retaining the paper-based artifact and processing methodology is appropriate or not.

Since its obvious that AC has not allowed much, if any latitude to their IT team towards the overall transformation of the business, they probably will fall into the same trap. Its just a cultural thing I guess, very hard for old-timer business people to take direction or even guidance from IT professionals, especially when there is some element of risk involved. Contrast AC with Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart is an IT company that happens to run a chain of department stores and a massive logistics operation. Any coincidence why they happen to be successful where AC and other 'legacy' organizations are not?

SAP is hideous. The interface is hideous. The server back end software is hideous. Only an accountant could love it, and far too often, the accountants are put in charge of selecting it.

SAP tends to be a catch-22. It works great if you can keep it exclusively within the realm of the accounting department, but once its entrenched there, the accountants tend to do everything in their power to have it adopted by the rest of the business.

Some of the examples I could recite for you are so ludicrous, for example, in my former organization, 55-year old high school dropout skilled tradespeople with no computer literacy skills were sent on 2 month courses just to learn how to enter a timesheet. Every two weeks I would lose a good 2-3 hours of productivity from these skilled tradesmen because they would be struggling to enter their time into SAP so they could get paid. Not a big deal in the dead of winter when they sit around doing nothing, or work on their own personal projects on company time, but hugely wasteful in the summer months when they should be out working and enjoying the fresh air instead.

Of course, as a lower-level manager, I was essentially told just to keep my mouth shut about this ludicrous waste of resources, 'in the name of progress' even though my employees' productivity directly affected not only my performance bonus, but also my performance reviews. Not only that, but employee morale and productivity fell even further because there was a complete lack of trust between the union and management on the system implementation, and with several hundred payroll errors every month due to the improperly implemented system, the union had every right to feel that their membership was being harassed through the system. (sounds like AC, eh??)

Never said it was good or bad just pointed out the similarities with all major software implementations...I also know of disasters trying to implement Oracle in large financial services company.

Yes, AC's current booking engine is based on Amadeus. I know the reason behind why HNL & OGG were missing and all I'll say is that it should have been fixed before the site was launched as it is something they would have saw before the site went live. The team that worked on this site had almost 200 people.

That's an excellent analysis.

However, it may not always be appropriate to compare processes of 'real' airlines, such as AC, to those of their 'simplified' counterparts, such as WestJet. WS is not a member of the IATA, AC is. Air Canada cannot redefine what it means by a 'ticket' or 'reservation', WestJet can.

On the other hand, there are certain things that are completely within AC's control. For example, how can a company (unless it's based in a certain region of the world that is still experiencing problems with modern telecom facilities), still use TELEX for sending messages between its call centre in Montreal and its offices in Calgary? It was also completely within AC's control to design a website that is compliant with the appropriate HTML standards. Instead, their development team spent their resources on creating code for displaying the "browser not supported" notice...

I'm sure Amadeus provided support to AC during this whole project - especially implementation. The scary thing is - they've implemented with many other Airlines, and they still screw it up. Not saying that issue never arise, but it seems that some experienced here should have been anticipated.

Hehehe, I couldn't agree more. The oil company I am contracting to right now has wasted millions and millions on this system that is nothing more than a glorified accounting system. Which is ok, because it allows us to do the job properly for them.

You mean its not? People are born this way?

(-;

Seriously, though, you must be used to the fact that some days it can seem that half the world doesn't support Mac's. Use a Mac, and you know this is reality.....

For what it is worth, I'm on a Linux system on my Dell Laptop with an Epiphany browser, and the AC site won't let me in.

Bummer.

I don't you people should be questioning the competancy level of an organization's people until they have been in their shoes. The people that is saying to migrate everything to common web front standards. Do you know what you are saying here?
In a large organization like Air Canada, they have literally hundreds if not thousands of systems. Some of them custom written by some IT person many many years ago and have left the firm, some are off the shelf packages, some are AS-400, some are Unix, some are NT, some are Mainframe, and believe it or not AC still have applications on the old green screen mainframes. To have all the different applications to run on the same platform at the same time is virtually impossible. This takes years of planning and migration is gradual. NOt a 1 year project or even a 5 year project.
A few years ago, I was part of a team that implemented a eProcurement & marketplace solution at Air Canada, we used Ariba as the procurement software, but there was over 20 Interfaces that needed to be custom written to inteface to their other systems, like their ERP which was Oracle, materials planning(a customer AS400 system they called ARTOS), etc...

In a nutshell, the example shows that a large organization like Air Canada needs time and good project management, and vision to migrate to a move integrated and common platform. As they have the resources(both people and money) to implement new applications, they will move from the legacy platform and onto the new one. Which application to replace first is based on priority and resource availablity. When they were in Bankrupcty protection, I think spending $50 million on system improvement is not at the top priority.

BTW - Those that state SAP is hideous, and JUST an accounting software, should back up what you are talking about.....
There is so much more to SAP, and other ERP software than accounting. What they should complain about is the organization and mangement that implemented the SAP is hideous.
If implemented properly, ERP softwares like SAP will bring tangible benefits to across all functions of the organizations. Ever heard of distribution using SAP to plan and execute sales orders, Manufacturing using SAP to control shop floors, control inventory, material planning, resource planning, scheduling, etc...I can go on and on.
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What a load of poppycock ...

There is absolutely NO excuse for putting out a customer facing product like this. None, nothing, nada, zip, zero.

C'mon, call a spade a spade. Objective, subjective, subjunctive, substantive - it matters nothng. It is a mess - pure and simple.

I don't give a hoot about process, organizational, outsourcing, sugar coating, or any other issue. Accountability is with AC - period.

I have been in the IT industry for 25 years and there is ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE for this type of rollout.

Does it start with P and C as the second word

Then you've missed all the fun in rollouts by Petro Canada, Shell Canada, Bell Canada,AGF and many others who did theirs just as badly or worse. And now look at West Jet who can't even manage their simple system.