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Air Canada eUpgrade program (October 2020 onwards) [read wiki BEFORE asking question]

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Old Jul 13, 2021, 7:50 pm
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: Adam Smith

Note: This is a long wiki, with nearly 50 Q&As. If you only see 3 or 4 questions, then find and click on the "Show more" link which can be found at the very end of the last text you see in this wiki window


Table of Contents (note the links below only work on desktop if you have expanded the wiki as described above)


Basics Back to top

Q: What is an eUpgrade?
A: eUpgrades (sometimes referred to as “eUps”) are a benefit of elite status with AC that allow elites to upgrade to a higher cabin (business class / Signature class, a.k.a. “J”, or premium economy, a.k.a. “PY” or “PE”).

Q: Are eUps automatic, like on Delta/AA/United?
A: No, you have to request one online or with a phone agent. You have to have sufficient eUpgrade credits (which, like the concept of eUpgrades, are often referred to as "eUps"), with an expiry date at least equal to the date of your flight, to make the request. If you don’t request an eUp, AC has no problem letting you sit in your original cabin, even if it means letting seats in J/PY go out empty.

Q: How many eUpgrade credits do I need for my flight?
A: Here's the official eUp chart (last updated by AC in October 2020; current as of at least December 2023)

Q: How are the number of required eUpgrade credits calculated for multi-segment itineraries? Is it by adding the cost of upgrading each segment individually, or for the end-to-end journey?
A: As long as your travel is continuous (without a >24hr stopover), then the number of eUpgrade credits required is for the end-to-end journey. Example, if you are travelling from YVR-YYZ-FRA, then the cost of upgrading both segments will be the same as though you had just a single segment from YVR-FRA. In some cases this may mean that a shorter segment is "free" (has no marginal cost). Note that you must clear each segment individually.

If you request an eUpgrade for AAA-BBB-CCC, but only the BBB-CCC segment clears, you will be charged eUp credits applicable only to the upgraded leg.

Q: I’m booked in economy on an aircraft with both PY and J cabins. Can I request an upgrade to both?
A:
No. You can request PY only, or you can request J and be listed for both J and PY.

Q: Can I confirm an upgrade to PY, then request an upgrade to J?
A:
Nope. Once you confirm a PY upgrade, that’s it.

Q: If I don’t clear my upgrade to J, can I still get upgraded to PY?
A:
Yes, if your upgrade doesn’t clear until the gate, you will be on the list for both J and PY, including the seats newly-vacated by people booked in PY who cleared their eUp to J at the gate.

Q: Are eUps guaranteed once they're confirmed?
A:
Not quite. For example, you won't get bumped out of an eUp just because somebody with higher status requested one after yours was confirmed. However, in very rare circumstances, for example if your plane gets swapped for one with a smaller (or no) business cabin, you might lose your eUp. See this thread for details. Further note that Air Canada generally takes the approach that a downgrade-from-eUp for operational reasons (equipment change, broken seat, etc) shall not receive any meaningful compensation, since you flew in the cabin you paid for.




Timing & Availability Back to top

Q: When can I request an eUpgrade?
A: You can request an upgrade as soon as you book the flight, with the exception of the travel companion benefit (person on same flight but not on same PNR; see below for details). Travel companion eUpgrade requests need to be made by airport staff after the flight opens for check-in.

Q: When can I confirm (or "clear") my eUpgrade?
A: You have to be within the "clearance window" that applies to your status and fare type. The windows are detailed in the AC eUp requirements document.

Q: Can you be more specific?
A:
All upgrades that clear in advance of the gate are subject to upgrade space being available. In addition:
  • for flexible fares (Latitude and Premium Economy Flexible): If upgrade space is available (more on that below) you can confirm an eUpgrade immediately after booking, even months in advance.
  • for non-flexible fares (Standard, Flex, Comfort, Premium Economy Lowest): You have to be within the clearance window in the document linked above, which ranges from 3-14 days, depending on fare brand, route, and status.
Exception: if you have no status, you can only clear an upgrade on a Latitude or Premium Economy Flexible fare 7 days in advance (non-flexible fares cannot be upgraded).

Q: What does "upgrade space" mean?
A:
Upgrade space (also known as R space - see below) refers to the number of seats that Air Canada are prepared to let people upgrade in to, in advance. This is not the same as the number of business seats that are available for sale. If Air Canada think that they will be able to sell all of the business seats on a plane (by the time of the flight) then they might not make any upgrade space available for that flight, even a full year in advance.

Q: I see a lot of people talking about "R space" or "R0", what does that mean?
A:
In short, R is the fare bucket Air Canada uses to make eUpgrade space available. If R is greater than zero, there are eUp spaces still available. If R = 0, then anyone who's requested an eUp will be waitlisted.

Q: What if I only want to upgrade to Premium Economy?
A:
Replace "R" with "N".

Q: The AC website tells me whether my upgrade request will be confirmed or waitlisted. Is it reliable?
A:
No. The website may tell you you’ll be waitlisted, when in fact your upgrade will be confirmed right away. Or it may say there’s space available even though you’ll be waitlisted. This is true of both the upgrade availability displayed during the booking flow as well as the eUpgrade website. The only exception being that if you’re outside your clearance window, the website should pretty reliably tell you that you’ll be waitlisted.

If the website tells you you’ll be upgraded, then waitlists you, you may be able to phone in to have the eUpgrade cleared, or not. If there’s R space, it’s likely they will be able to clear the upgrade.

Q: I’m waitlisted on a flight that’s R0. Will AC release more R space before the flight? Do I have to wait until the flight to find out whether I’m upgraded?
A:
AC might release more R space tomorrow (or clear your upgrade without creating any R space). Or they might never clear any more upgrades on that flight. If you’re still waitlisted, your upgrade may clear at the gate.

Q: What does “at the gate” mean?
A:
The upgrade list is typically processed 5 minutes after check-in for the flight closes. Check-in generally closes 45 minutes before domestic flights and 1 hour before international flights, meaning the upgrade list gets run at T-40 or T-55, as applicable (although occasionally it will be delayed). Even if your upgrade doesn’t clear at that point, it’s theoretically possible to still be upgraded if someone else in the cabin doesn’t show up.

Q: Is there a way to check my position on the upgrade list? To ensure I am on the list?
A: The mobile app will have a "Standby and Upgrade" list available at T-24 hours on the Flight Status page. Note that the order of the list may not be the order in which they process eUpgrades and only people checked in will show on the list. If you are upgraded you will receive a check mark beside your name?

Q: I boarded the plane but am still hoping for an upgrade; however, my name is no longer on the list? Does that mean I won't get upgraded?
A: Once you are marked as boarded in the system your name will no longer appear on the mobile app. There is much debate on what policy is once boarded; however, many feel "You Board, You Lose" and once boarded you are not likely to be upgraded using eUpgrades as the gate agents must process that transaction manually.

Q: So is there a chance that my upgrade might clear after I have boarded?
A: Probably not. Although this has happened on occasion, it's not a normal or automated or routine occurrence. Generally speaking, once you have boarded your name is removed from the upgrade list and you'll be sitting in the seat you boarded for. See this thread for details.

Q: How can I find the R space for my flight?
A:
Using a paid service like ExpertFlyer. If you ask nicely and don't overdo it, many FTers with EF accounts will help you in the Official Fare Bucket Check Request Thread.

Q: So, WHEN should I check for R space for my flight?
A:
This depends on your status and what kind of fare you have, so please read and keep in mind the confirmation windows mentioned above.
  • If you have (or are about to purchase) a flexible fare (Latitude and Premium Economy Flexible), then by all means check now since your upgrade could also clear immediately. If your plans are flexible, this can be a useful strategy to help find specific flights that could clear immediately well before the ‘normal’ confirmation windows.
  • If you don’t have one of the flexible fares mentioned, R space viewed on something like ExpertFlyer is only useful when you get close to your confirmation window. Checking before that is probably a waste of time.

Q: I heard a rumour that paid Latitude fares can eUp even when R=0. Is this true?
A:
Sometimes; it's complicated. Senior execs at Aeroplan have said that “in some cases” a Latitude or PE Flex cash fare (including Flight Pass Latitude Bookings) might clear an eUp even when R=0, but they've also been very clear that they will not be releasing the exact method by which this is determined, and that the same thing is less-often true for award Latitude / PE Flex. In other words, it may happen but don't assume it, and there are lots of times when it simply never happens.

Q: My flight shows R=1 (or more), and I'm within my window, but my upgrade has not cleared.
Answer depends on how close you are to the flight.
  • Within 36 hours of departure Your upgrade can't clear until the gate.
  • More than 36 hours from departure: Cancelling the request and then requesting again may solve it. Or you may be able to solve it by phoning in. Or you may not, because it's AC.

Q: I have a pending upgrade and I am looking at the mobile app - who are all those other people listed?
A:
The list shows everyone who wants to sit in a cabin that they're not currently confirmed in. If you see a name listed for both PY and J, they're trying to upgrade from Y; names listed only for J are trying to upgrade from PY.

Q: What are my chances of clearing an eUp for [FLIGHT] on [DATE] if I have [STATUS]?
A:
All we can do is make an educated guess. Lots of business travel gets booked last minute, or pilots need to reposition, or any of a dozen other things that might turn J9 in to J0 just before departure.

Q: But the seat map shows [x] seats occupied. Surely that means my odds are [good][bad]?
A: STOP LOOKING AT THE SEAT MAP. STOP LOOKING AT THE SEAT MAP. STOP LOOKING AT THE SEAT MAP.

Seriously, stop looking at the seat map. The seat map is not an accurate guide to the number of seats available in the cabin. Many people do not select their seats when booking, which can mean more seats have been sold than show as occupied on the seat map. On the other hand, due to IT glitches, seats are sometimes shown as blocked when there are waitlisted eUps or staff members on passes (see this thread for details). So the seat map may show more seats available than there truly are, or fewer. Or it may be correct. There’s no way to know for sure.

So stop looking at the seat map.

Q: I see people talking about "Aerolotto", what is that? Can I bet eUps?
A:
Aerolotto is a slang term for waiting at the gate to see if your eUp clears, or you're stuck in the original seat you paid for.

Q: I want to upgrade my flight on date X, but all my eUps expire on date Y, where Y < X. Can I upgrade?
A: NO. To eUp any flight, at any time, you need to have credits that are still valid on the date of the flight.



Earning and Validity Back to top

Q: How long are eUpgrades good for? When do they expire?
A: It depends on when the eUpgrade is deposited in your account.
  • eUpgrade earned January 1st - June 30th: Valid until January 15th of next calendar year
  • eUpgrade earned July 1st - December 31st: Valid until January 15th two calendar years later

Q: When do I need to use them by?
A: An eUpgrade needs to be used for a flight departing prior to 23:59 local time (where your flight departs) on the day your eUpgrade expires.

Q: Can I delay picking my benefits package until after July 1st to have eUpgrades have the later expiry year?
A: Yes. Picking your benefit after July 1st will have your eUpgrades deposited with an expiry year two years after the deposit date.

Q: I have an Amex Reserve / VISA VIP card that offers eUpgrade rollover. When I try to apply eUpgrades to a flight next year, it doesn't work. Why?
A: The eUpgrade rollover feature does not extend the expiry date of your eUpgrades. Those eUpgrades will expire, and you'll be issued new eUpgrades with a new expiry date. The T&C of these programs state that the rollover eUpgrades will be deposited by March 30, but it in 2022 and 2023 they were deposited before the end of January. Because of this quirk, it is not possible to use eUpgrades that would be rolled over. This thread on Aeroplan rollover benefits has more detailed information.

Q: Can I buy eUpgrades?
A: No. Generally you can only earn eUpgrades through a benefit package or SQM thresholds.



Upgrading Multiple Passengers Back to top

Q: I want to use my eUp credits to upgrade somebody else. Is this possible?
Are they on the same booking (“PNR”) as you?
  • Yes: You can upgrade a maximum of three passengers on a booking. If the booking has more than three passengers, you can't request an upgrade for any of them, before the day of travel. You can split the booking so that it has at most three passengers, then upgrade it, although splitting bookings can come with other, negative consequences.
  • No, but they’re on the same flight: You can request the upgrade at the airport on the day of travel; AC refers to this as upgrading a "travel companion".
  • No, and they’re not on the same flight: No, unless you’re Super Elite. If you’re Super Elite, you can designate a nominee, and you can upgrade this person on any flight they’re on. Your nominee selection stays in effect until January 17th of each year, and you only get one per status year. You cannot upgrade anyone else on your nominee's PNR.

Q: I'm trying to upgrade a travel companion on my flight, but the agent has no idea how. What do I do?
A: Tell the agent to go to the "customer" tab, select "upgrade", then select "use other FQTV".

Q: What's the maximum number of people I can upgrade on a flight
Are you Super Elite?
  • No: 5 (yourself + two people on the same PNR + two travel companions)
  • Yes: 6 (yourself + two people on the same PNR + two travel companions + nominee)

Q: I am SE and want to upgrade my nominee but they are on a PNR with multiple people and the system won't let me? Why not? What now?
A:
You can't have multiple people on the same PNR living in different cabins so the eUpgrade system will not allow you to request the eUpgrade. You may need to call in to AC (or Aeroplan if it is a flight reward) and ask them to split the PNR so that the person you want to upgrade is on their own PNR, at which point your eUpgrade should be fine. This shouldn't impact the ticket or incur a fee. But once you split the PNR you cannot join it back.

Q: I am SE and want to upgrade my nominee and their companion traveling on the same PNR. Is this possible?
A:
No.

Q: Can I upgrade my nominee on a flight that departs after January 17th?
A:
Yes, you should be able to upgrade them on any flight, regardless of departure date (subject to having eUps with sufficient validity).



Payments and Refunds Back to top

Q: If I don't get upgraded, or my flight gets cancelled, do I get the eUps back?
A:
Yes, eUps get refunded if your upgrade doesn't clear or your flight is cancelled (whether AC cancels it or you do). This should happen automatically shortly after the flight in most cases. If your eUps don't get returned to your account, fill out the form on this page.

Q: The eUpgrade I want to use has an additional cost. When will I be charged?
A:
eUpgrade add-ons are charged to your credit card when the eUpgrade is cleared, although AC may place a hold on the card before that.

Q: I'm a Super Elite and I'm still being charged for add-ons. Why?
A:
Super Elites are only exempt from eUpgrade add-on charges on international business-class flights (except for Standard tickets.)

Q: Will I be refunded my add-on payment if I cancel a booking that successfully cleared an eUpgrade?
A: There are no refunds on add-on payments.

Q: I paid extra for a Preferred Seat in Economy, does that fee get refunded if my upgrade request is successful?
A: There is no refund on preferred seats if you are upgraded.

Q: Do I earn Status Qualifying Dollars (SQD) for any eUpgrade add-on fees?
A: Yes, eUpgrade add-on fees paid where applicable earn SQD. This applies to fares paid in cash and with Aeroplan points. The SQD from the add-on will post as a separate transaction and may not post at the same time as the SQM/SQS/SQD from the flight itself.

Q: Who earns the SQD? If I upgraded someone using my eUps, do I get it?
A: SQD is earned by the passenger who was eUpgraded – who paid for the eUps or for the add-on doesn’t matter.



Priority for eUps Back to top

Q: What is the priority for eUpgrades?
A:
Upgrade priority at the gate:
  1. Cabin: If you're in PY, you're ahead of everyone in Y
    • Note: for upgrades to PY only, the requested cabin also appears to matter - AC appears to process anyone who requested, and didn't receive, an eUp to J, before those who requested an upgrade to PY (i.e. a 25K on a Flex fare who requested, but failed to clear, an upgrade to J would get a PY upgrade before an SEMM on a Latitude fares who only requested an eUp to PY). Note that this has not yet been extensively tested by FTers and is based on order on the publicly available upgrade list
  2. Status: There are several sub-priorities within status, listed in order of importance:
    1. Elite status; VIP > SE > 75K > 50K > 35K > 25K
    2. MM status; 2MM+ (no distinction between 2MM, 3MM, etc) outranks MMs, who outrank those with MM status
    3. Do you have a Premium credit card (TD/CIBC VIP or Amex Reserve) or not? (Other cards convey no eUp priority benefit)
    • To illustrate: any VIP > SE 2MM+ with credit card > SE 2MM+ > SE MM with credit card > SE MM > SE with credit card > SE > any 75K
    • If two passengers are on the PNR, the priority might be based on the highest status, regardless of who requested the upgrade, per this post
  3. "Fare": Brand comes first (PF > PL; LT > CO > FL > ST), so a low Comfort fare is higher priority than Flex M. Within a brand, fare class matters. If you bought your ticket through another airline, and you don't have a brand, they infer a brand based on the fare class.
    Fare class hierarchy:
    • PY fares: O > E > A > N
    • Y fares: Y > B > M > U > H > Q > V > W > S > T > L > K > G
  4. Check-in time: As indicated by your sequence number

Upgrade priority prior to the gate is similar, with possible exceptions for full-fare (Latitude / Premium Economy Flexible) bookings. In the old system, a 25K on a Latitude fare would be ahead of a SE on a Premium Economy Lowest fare prior to the gate. Time of upgrade request replaces check-in time.

Q: How can I tell where I rank for an upgrade?
A:
After check-in opens, the AC app has an upgrade list where you can see the people on the waitlist for J and PY. Note that the list is not only for eUps, but also includes customers on standby and some employees travelling on passes, and possibly others.

Q: How do those other things rank relative to eUpgrades?
A:
Staff on pass travel generally rank below eUps, while others may effectively rank ahead of or behind eUps.

Q: Is the app always correct?
A:
Unfortunately not. Sometimes the order is wrong, and sometimes people are missing from the list entirely even though they’re actually on the waitlist for an upgrade (and we have numerous reports of eUps clearing even when people weren’t showing on the public list)



eUpgrades & Partner Airlines Back to top

Q: Can I use eUps if I credit my mileage on an Air Canada flight to another airline?
A:
Yes. To request an eUpgrade, your Aeroplan number has to be on the file. Crediting to another FFP requires changing your Aeroplan number after check-in.

Q: Can I use eUps on partner operated flights (such as United, Lufthansa, etc)?
A:
No, you can only use eUps on flights operated by aircraft with "Air Canada" written on the outside.

Q: Can I use eUps on an Air Canada operated flight that was booked through a partner?
Answer depends on what type of booking you have made.
  • Cash tickets (i.e. not points): Yes, but with some complexity as to when and how you can request the upgrade.
    Is your AC flight a codeshare (a flight marketed by the other airline but operated by AC, e.g. marketed as UA5678, operated by AC as AC1234)?
    • No: you should be able to request it as usual via the eUp site
    • Yes: you can eUpgrade that -- but not before the day of the flight. You may only request an upgrade with an Air Canada agent at the airport, or at the departure gate on your day of travel.
  • Points tickets (United MileagePlus, Avianca Lifemiles, etc): No. These tickets cannot be upgraded.



Other Types of Upgrade Back to top

This wiki/thread only covers questions related to upgrading a ticket using Air Canada's eUpgrade currency. Please check out other threads to post questions or find out about other ways to upgrade:
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Air Canada eUpgrade program (October 2020 onwards) [read wiki BEFORE asking question]

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Old Sep 30, 2022, 1:44 pm
  #3016  
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Originally Posted by zkzkz
So once you've upgraded you've paid thousands extra and ended up in the same seat with the same fare terms.
What are you talking about?

I just pulled fares for YYZ-DEL, because I have personal experience on it.

The cheapest Latitude fare, BFFEO, is 1442 USD.
The cheapest PY Flexible fare, OFF1EO, is 1406 USD.
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Old Sep 30, 2022, 2:02 pm
  #3017  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Originally Posted by canadiancow
What are you talking about?

I just pulled fares for YYZ-DEL, because I have personal experience on it.

The cheapest Latitude fare, BFFEO, is 1442 USD.
The cheapest PY Flexible fare, OFF1EO, is 1406 USD.
That's ... weird. So AC really does think their PY product is worthless?

"thousands" was a misjudgement. Even YUL-DUB on a random date Y is $1840 and PY $2150 (each way!).

Picking YUL-LHR which is probably a more typical route and adding a Saturday stay...
Basic K $828
Standard K $978
Flex V $1947
Latitude B $3458
PY Lowest $3316
PY Flexible $4316

So after upgrading to business the net cost would be if you booked originally

Standard K 828+750*2 = $2328 + 42 eupgrade credits
Flex V 1947+500*2 = $2947 + 30+ credits
Latitude B $3458 + 22 credits
PY Lowest $3316+200*2=$3716 + 24+ credits
PY Flexible $4316 + 22 credits

So even if I have an employer willing to pay for PY it's hardly compelling to ask them to pay $1,369 if I end up in the same seat in the end. (And that's assuming they were looking at Flex, not Standard to begin with Especially if they can pay almost the same for Latitude and have better terms (and then I can pay no copay at all).

And this is not some obscure route... I picked LHR because I assumed it would be a very carefully priced competitive route, not a quirky one, and the prices looked pretty consistent across dates.

Last edited by zkzkz; Sep 30, 2022 at 2:34 pm
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Old Sep 30, 2022, 2:21 pm
  #3018  
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Originally Posted by zkzkz
That's more or less true up to the PY fares. At that point it just seems to break down imho. It's like they added PY as an afterthought. It's just a bad product positioning to have a PY product that costs nearly as much as latitude but is worse for frequent fliers than economy fares. I mean... you can't possibly justify the eupgrade costs being *exactly* the same for Latitude and PY *flexible* can you? BA used to charge *half* the avios for a PY upgrade as an economy upgrade -- they inflated that but it's still significantly less than a full economy to business upgrade. AC is basically telling us here that they think PY is worthless.
A PE fare does have a huge advantage over Latitude in the eUp games, even if it requires more eUpgrades than some Y fares... anybody using eUpgrades from PY automatically trumps anybody on any fare trying to eUp from Y. This is a big issue with J being so full these days.

I have personally had four flights where people in PE got upgraded to J and in every one of those as a SE 2M with credit card I have been first on the upgrade list of non-PE passengers but got stuck using eUps to sit in PE that in certain cases I could have purchased at lower cost and not needed to use eUps.
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Old Sep 30, 2022, 2:27 pm
  #3019  
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Originally Posted by The Lev
A PE fare does have a huge advantage over Latitude in the eUp games, even if it requires more eUpgrades than some Y fares... anybody using eUpgrades from PY automatically trumps anybody on any fare trying to eUp from Y. This is a big issue with J being so full these days.

I have personally had four flights where people in PE got upgraded to J and in every one of those as a SE 2M with credit card I have been first on the upgrade list of non-PE passengers but got stuck using eUps to sit in PE that in certain cases I could have purchased at lower cost and not needed to use eUps.
I don't even consider Y->J upgrades as being feasible on intercontinental routes any more, unless I can confirm the upgrade at booking. And even then I'm cautious.

It doesn't matter if I'm the highest ranking person in Y if there are five 25Ks in PY who also want J.

On the other hand, I consider PY->J upgrades to be virtually guaranteed. I may be outranked by a multi-million miler, but there aren't enough of those to worry about.
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Old Sep 30, 2022, 2:32 pm
  #3020  
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Originally Posted by YOWgary
Presumably the kind of person who's read the conditions of each fare type, and wants the additional services Latitude offers that Comfort does not, like added SQM earning, priority check-in, increased baggage allowance, exemption from sports-equipment handling fees, and, as you've mentioned, the ability to request and often confirm eUpgrades outside of the 14/10/etc-day window.
Let's try to put monetary value on those added benefit:
10% more SQM: maybe $100? Assuming 2500miles x 2 and at $0.2cpp (MR deals usually is < $0.1cpp).
priority check-in, increased baggage allowance: maybe $100? This benefit can be acquired by Status Pass and I assume you can buy that on kijiji for $100 or less.
exemption from sports-equipment handling fees: maybe $100? According to AC the price varies and sometimes just count as one checked bag from your normal baggage allowance.

And the fare difference for latitude v.s. comfort is like >$1000 easily on TB/domestic long haul route. I think if we can't even agree on "people almost only buy cash latitude to confirm eup in advance", then there is fundamental disagreement in this discussion. I guess maybe some people are just rich and want to dump money?


Originally Posted by YOWgary
A customer's failure to read clearly-published policies does not constitute fraud on the part of the airline.
Isn't it always customers' fault since those big corps have highly-paid legal team to draft the T&C? I bet > 99% cases there are small fine print buried somewhere in the T&C that a normal person (i.e. 90% of the AC passengers) isn't aware of.

Originally Posted by YOWgary
Were you told at any point that buying Latitude would guarantee you a seat in a different cabin than you paid for?
That depends on what a general person interprets "guarantee". I got a confirmed upgrade in advance, I got to select a seat in the J cabin. I didn't know it's not a "guarantee", now I know, end of my story. Maybe this story will happen to others, maybe not, who knows, it's all depend on one's luck to some extend.

Originally Posted by YOWgary
In what specific way were you "tricked" by the airline?
Maybe "buying a high fare ticket thinking I would have a confirmed seat in lie-flat business class?" I know it's my fault that I had too much expectation now, I just want to rant to let others know this distinction between "confirmed" and "guaranteed".

Also, every air port staff (the gate agent, the customer service counter agent) all told me "yeah no big worries just write to customer relations and you will get a refund". The flight was boarding and I didn't have much time to think about the details. Had I knew better, I'd just cancel the ticket and buy comfort ones, or re-route with J available (still sub-optimal but a little better than losing the dumped money?)
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Old Sep 30, 2022, 2:38 pm
  #3021  
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Originally Posted by sha8192
Isn't it always customers' fault since those big corps have highly-paid legal team to draft the T&C? I bet > 99% cases there are small fine print buried somewhere in the T&C that a normal person (i.e. 90% of the AC passengers) isn't aware of.
This isn't one of those things where the marketing copy says "buy any ticket and get a free puppy", and the fine print says "only applies to US citizens residing in Canada purchasing a fare class that is contained in their last name".

You paid for economy.

Originally Posted by sha8192
Also, every air port staff (the gate agent, the customer service counter agent) all told me "yeah no big worries just write to customer relations and you will get a refund". The flight was boarding and I didn't have much time to think about the details.
Yes, you'll get a refund of the eUpgrade credits and any add-on that might be required per your status. Or a fare difference if you had actually paid for J.

You paid for Y. You sat in Y. You received (or had access to) all the benefits that are included in a Latitude fare.
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Old Sep 30, 2022, 2:58 pm
  #3022  
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: YOW
Programs: AC SE, FOTSG Platinum
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Originally Posted by zkzkz
I consistently see Premium Economy Lowest at approximately the same price as Latitude.
Each offers different advantages. One is a non-refundable ticket for a nicer seat, the other is a refundable ticket for a regular seat.

Originally Posted by zkzkz
if this was the last minute and only M was available I would be a more valuable customer to AC
At this point you're branching off into a different and unrelated topic, but it really sounds like you'd like to see eUp credit requirements pro-rated to the cash price of your ticket.

Originally Posted by zkzkz
It's just a bad product positioning to have a PY product that costs nearly as much as latitude but is worse for frequent fliers than economy fares.
Originally Posted by zkzkz
AC is basically telling us here that they think PY is worthless.
You seem determined to die on this hill.

Again, Latitude and Premium Economy are different products. It's nice that their costs are often similar, but you're still buying different things. More importantly, neither of them is a guarantee of anything other than the seat you paid for, but you still seem determined to tell us you were promised Business Class.

Originally Posted by sha8192
Isn't it always customers' fault since those big corps have highly-paid legal team to draft the T&C? I bet > 99% cases there are small fine print buried somewhere in the T&C that a normal person (i.e. 90% of the AC passengers) isn't aware of.
The details relevant to this discussion are published right out in the open.

https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/...eupgrades.html

https://www.aircanada.com/content/da...rements_EN.pdf

https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/...onditions.html

"Upgrades are never guaranteed, subject to space availability for the number of upgrades permitted per flight, and subject to operational considerations which are at Air Canada’s sole discretion."

Originally Posted by sha8192
That depends on what a general person interprets "guarantee".
In this case, two or three specific people have decided to "interpret" that Latitude guarantees an eUpgrade to Business, when this is very simply not the least bit true.

Originally Posted by sha8192
I got a confirmed upgrade in advance, I got to select a seat in the J cabin.
...and then part of the plane broke, and there weren't enough seats to put you in. What do you realistically think should have happened here?

Originally Posted by sha8192
Maybe "buying a high fare ticket thinking I would have a confirmed seat in lie-flat business class?"
If I buy a car thinking it'll fly, it's not Audi's fault when it turns out not to.

Originally Posted by sha8192
I know it's my fault that I had too much expectation now, I just want to rant to let others know this distinction between "confirmed" and "guaranteed".
The seat broke. They didn't simply walk up and yeet you back to PY for teh lulz.
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Old Sep 30, 2022, 2:58 pm
  #3023  
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Originally Posted by canadiancow
This isn't one of those things where the marketing copy says "buy any ticket and get a free puppy", and the fine print says "only applies to US citizens residing in Canada purchasing a fare class that is contained in their last name".

You paid for economy.
Yeah this is the type of thing where "buy a latitude ticket to get a confirmed upgrade today" and the fine print says "oops 'confirmed' isn't 'guaranteed' and we can take back your upgrade any time for any reason we like, you just leave it or suck it up". I was at the gate waiting to get on to my trip with hotels all booked, I wish I had a lot of other options than "suck it up".

All in all I think AC has done a great job in defining those T&Cs, as now we have customers blaming other customers for not reading the fine print, rather than thinking in general terms and questioning why the benefits couldn't be better.

I just want to rant and make the experience aware to those who don't know the T&C down to every detail. No harm intended to any other members on this forum. I acknowledge I might have been too aggressive in my wording and might have harmed other members, I want to apologize for that. I just would like to have a bit of empathy given that I "lost" quite some money that I could have avoid paying.

Originally Posted by YOWgary



In this case, two or three specific people have decided to "interpret" that Latitude guarantees an eUpgrade to Business, when this is very simply not the least bit true.
I didnt interpret that “Latitude guarantees an eUpgrade to Business”, I thought “confirmed upgrade guarantees a seat in Business”. Now I know confirmed eupgrade doesn’t guarantee, only confirmed bid upgrade/last minute upgrade guarantee.

...and then part of the plane broke, and there weren't enough seats to put you in. What do you realistically think should have happened here?
Maybe, just maybe, in a remote dream, refund the fare difference between comfort and latitude?


If I buy a car thinking it'll fly, it's not Audi's fault when it turns out not to.
Except Audi never advertises its car can fly, but AC said “purchase latitude fare today to get a confirmed upgrade to business”.


The seat broke. They didn't simply walk up and yeet you back to PY for teh lulz.
But they still can do that for any reason they like, right? According to T&C.
Even if they just feel like they don’t want that many people in J and downgrade me, would the reason of the downgrade matter? Because according to T&C it is never guaranteed. I suspect I would still be told on this forum that yeah that’s in accordance to T&C and you should suck it up.
(As a matter of fact, the flight waited for connecting passengers for a hour and departed with a few empty seats in J, I was never offered my seat in J back, because you board you lose I guess).

Last edited by Adam Smith; Oct 1, 2022 at 9:13 am Reason: Merge consecutive posts by same user
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Old Sep 30, 2022, 4:06 pm
  #3024  
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Originally Posted by canadiancow
I don't even consider Y->J upgrades as being feasible on intercontinental routes any more, unless I can confirm the upgrade at booking. And even then I'm cautious.
It seems there was a time when AC would proactively selectively clear some e-upgrades just before the check-in window opened to put Latitude or SE's in J but that doesn't seem to happen any more. Not sure if it was Concierges doing that and they are now too busy or not allowed or if it was part of the old RESIII system that didn't carry over to the new system.
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Old Sep 30, 2022, 4:13 pm
  #3025  
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: YOW
Programs: AC SE, FOTSG Platinum
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Originally Posted by sha8192
. I was at the gate waiting to get on to my trip with hotels all booked, I wish I had a lot of other options than "suck it up".
I am also sad that you didn't get a better seat than you paid for. Well, you did, but you see where I'm going with this.

Throughout all of this you seem determined to reject the part where the plane broke, and there were X passengers and (X-1) usable seats.

Your upgrade WAS confirmed, until physical reality changed. I'm baffled at what you think they were going to do, disembark the aircraft and leave everyone waiting at the gate until your upgraded seat could be repaired?

Originally Posted by sha8192
now we have customers blaming other customers for not reading the fine print, rather than thinking in general terms and questioning why the benefits couldn't be better.
Is this your first visit to FT? Questioning how and why benefits could be better is most of what we do around here.

...but one of the other things we do around here is identify when people have (accidentally or deliberately) misinterpreted the rules.

[QUOTE=sha8192;34644725]I just want to rant.

Originally Posted by sha8192
I just would like to have a bit of empathy given that I "lost" quite some money that I could have avoid paying.
The most bizarre thing about your rant is that you still got a better seat than you paid for. You still got eUpgraded, just not quite as far as you hoped.

Originally Posted by sha8192
now I know confirmed eupgrade doesn’t guarantee, only confirmed bid upgrade/last minute upgrade guarantee.
I have more bad news for you, my friend.

Originally Posted by sha8192
Maybe, just maybe, in a remote dream, refund the fare difference between comfort and latitude?
This is an insane level of entitlement.

You got exactly what you paid for, and then some. Fine, technically they owe you a single eUp credit back, but you've said you don't particularly care.
YOWgary is offline  
Old Oct 1, 2022, 9:08 am
  #3026  
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 4
SE nominee upgrade clearance

Hi - new to this. I’m the nominee added to a SE account. They made an eupgrade request for my itinerary on AC56 on Oct 8 in 7 days. It shows waitlisted for business class on my booking. Is that likely to change, or I wont really know until I’m at the airport and am entered into the “lottery” explained in the wiki?

Thank you and happy travels.

edit: quick follow up Q…does a bid upgrade at 48hrs trump SE eupgrade credits when R=0 and seats are available in J? Or do bid upgrades get filled from another category altogether?

Last edited by intentional grounding; Oct 1, 2022 at 12:49 pm
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Old Oct 1, 2022, 7:28 pm
  #3027  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: YYZ/LHR/SFO/SIN
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Posts: 282
Originally Posted by The Lev
It seems there was a time when AC would proactively selectively clear some e-upgrades just before the check-in window opened to put Latitude or SE's in J but that doesn't seem to happen any more. Not sure if it was Concierges doing that and they are now too busy or not allowed or if it was part of the old RESIII system that didn't carry over to the new system.
Yeah, in 2020 and going into 2021 this was happening to me consistently a few days before the flight even on flex fares. Have they stopped it altogether now? I wonder if it’s worth me emailing the concierge to inquire for an upcoming B fare I have where the flight is Z9 but P0.
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Old Oct 1, 2022, 9:14 pm
  #3028  
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Toronto, ON
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Posts: 6,363
Originally Posted by pilot007
Yeah, in 2020 and going into 2021 this was happening to me consistently a few days before the flight even on flex fares. Have they stopped it altogether now? I wonder if it’s worth me emailing the concierge to inquire for an upcoming B fare I have where the flight is Z9 but P0.
2020 and 2021 are very different demand wise vs now. I’m not SE, but I don’t think that’s an appropriate request for the concierge. Book J, or abide by the eupgrade rules. Anything else accept as a gift and not an expectation.
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Old Oct 2, 2022, 10:29 am
  #3029  
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Programs: Aeroplan SE, AA ExecPlat
Posts: 184
Eupgrades segment scrubbed from schedule

I had successfully booked the BKK-YYZ latitude fare and had eupgraded the transpacific AC segment. Unfortunately AC scrubbed the flight from the schedule and interestingly when I rebooked, the agent was willing to protect me into J class although I still see the fare basis as being "B".

Also, when the original AC flight was canceled - my eupgrade credits were returned, but the reprotection into J didn't cost me new upgrade credits. I don't have any particular use for them as they'll expire otherwise, but does anyone see cause for concern? Having read this thread I thought when there's a schedule change, it is on me to try and find R availability on another flight. The flight I was rebooked on had no R. ​​​
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Old Oct 2, 2022, 10:37 am
  #3030  
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Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 166
Originally Posted by psiachp
I had successfully booked the BKK-YYZ latitude fare and had eupgraded the transpacific AC segment. Unfortunately AC scrubbed the flight from the schedule and interestingly when I rebooked, the agent was willing to protect me into J class although I still see the fare basis as being "B".

Also, when the original AC flight was canceled - my eupgrade credits were returned, but the reprotection into J didn't cost me new upgrade credits. I don't have any particular use for them as they'll expire otherwise, but does anyone see cause for concern? Having read this thread I thought when there's a schedule change, it is on me to try and find R availability on another flight. The flight I was rebooked on had no R. ​​​
Confirmed eupgrade used to be able to re-protect to J on AC metal, but it seems AC has recently removed that clause from their rebooking guidelines to travel agency. I guess you got lucky/or maybe AC is willing to go extra miles to make you happy.
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