Lurker

Thank you all very much for this thread. Really valuable information and lots of good advice.

I am a US Citizen currently holding a USA-CANADA-EU-AFRICA flight with return through same continents/countries in Mid September.

Plated on AC, booked through their Website and in US Dollars.

Currently looks like first and last legs (USA-Canada and Canada-USA) are canceled.

Please can you advise whether DOT rulings (if and when they come) and/or EU261 apply. And what my best course of action would be.

Thank you

Lurker

rankourabu

You will not get money back from AC voluntarily. They have decided that DOT rulings do not apply to them.
File a DOT complaint and call your credit card to dispute the charge.

In the future, reconsider your choice of airline, and spread the word.

strickerj

Mine is one of them. Deadline for response is Friday, July 17.

bedelman

Lurker, the plain language of DOT guidance says you should get a full refund to original form of payment. Longstanding practice by AC and others is in accord -- and past practice can be evidence of the meaning of terms in an ambiguous contract.

If I were in your situation, I would consider a formal DOT complaint (per instructions on my web site), informal DOT complaint, or chargeback. Formal DOT complaint is the most work but also most likely to help others. Informal complaint and chargeback have good likelihood of getting your money back albeit without emphasizing the pattern or helping others.

seawolf

I’m guessing enplanements wouldn’t make much sense in regards to refund complaints.

number10blade

I cancelled a ticket on-line, and was forced to fill out the on-line form. I selected the non-expiring/transferrable/re-usable option over the AP+65% points. Two weeks later I receive an email confirming my ticket is cancelled, and that I have been issued a voucher that is non-transferrable and expires in 24 months. Any idea how I convert that to the "selected" option now?

hoipolloi

Try filling out the same online form again

number10blade

I cannot get to the form as the PNR no longer displays...


Sorry, we're not able to display this booking online. To make changes to this booking, please contact Air Canada ReservationsOpens in a new window for assistance or talk to your travel agent.

strickerj

Thanks for noticing that! I checked archive.org, and it has snapshots of the CoC as it appeared prior to the COVID-19 pandemic (https://www.aircanada.com/us/en/aco/...e-tariffs.html), including the PDFs of the applicable Tariffs. I've saved the International Tariff as it appeared when I purchased my ticket in August of last year, along with the two revisions made this year, and made them available on my cloud drive for anyone who'd like a copy:

July 15, 2019: https://1drv.ms/b/s!AqWzJ3hTOrPRmZE7...8mt2Q?e=sR9OEX
January 6, 2020: https://1drv.ms/b/s!AqWzJ3hTOrPRmZE8...jIQLg?e=kyycuE
June 24, 2020: https://1drv.ms/b/s!AqWzJ3hTOrPRmZE9...IxyzQ?e=YjxAil

Under Rule 80 - Schedule Irregularities (beginning on page 95 for the most recent revision and page 92 for the others), it looks like the 2020/01/06 revision added language referring to the APPR, and also deleted the section defining the 4 types of "Schedule Irregularities" (instead just defining it as a delay or cancellation), and curiously I see no changes to this section in the 2020/06/24 revision but I'm including it anyway. I was looking to see if anything materially changed to the refund IRROP or refund policy among these three revisions, and it doesn't look like it has - all 3 still include the following under Rule 80, Section B, Part 4, Paragraphs d-e:

"d) If the passenger chooses to no longer travel or if carrier is unable to perform the option stated in (a) (b) or (c) above" (these paragraphs describe rebooking/rerouting, which wasn't possible in my case since service to my origin airport was suspended indefinitely) "within a reasonable amount time, make involuntary refund in accordance with RULE 100 - REFUNDS (an exception to the applicability of a refund occurs where the passenger was notified of the schedule irregularity prior to the day of departure and the schedule irregularity is of 60 minutes or less) or,
e) Upon request, for cancellations within Air Canada's control, return passenger to point of origin and refund in accordance with RULE 100 - REFUNDS as if no portion of the trip had been made (irrespective of applicable fare rules), or subject to passenger's agreement, offer a travel voucher for future travel in the same amount; or, upon passenger request.

(bolding and italicized text are mine)

That text applies to any schedule irregularity - Part 5 then describes the airline's additional responsibilities in the event that the schedule irregularity was within their control.

Also, the opening to Part 2 says "In the case of a schedule irregularity, AC shall implement the provisions of this rule in compliance with APPR, unless applicable local law provides otherwise." So basically, it says passengers that can't be reaccommodated after a cancellation will be refunded regardless of the reason, and that the Tariff and APPR don't supersede the laws of foreign countries where AC operates - both of which are counter to the argument in their response.

Mauricio23

Does anybody have an idea of how AC calculates the 65% Aeroplan miles bonus? I clicked on the cancellation screen for 4 economy YVR-EZE round trip tickets and was offered 218,000 miles. There is no way that amount of miles can get me the original four tickets at a later date, let alone 65% on top of that. As usual, AC adds insult to injury.

canadiancow

They take the ticket value, charge you 3cpm, and give you a 65% bonus on the total.

So a $3000 ticket gets you 100k miles with 65k bonus.

Your ticket cost $3964.

It's pure math.

pdx_guy

Hi everybody!

I got a refund on Friday!!!!! Sep 2019: Bought tickets for PDX-YYZ-PRG and return. Flight was cancelled by AC in April 2019. Flight left USA in July and returned in August 2020.

I booked the ticket by redeeming Ultimate Rewards points through Chase Travel (I redeem and Chase sends cash to AC to pay for ticket).

Over the last weeks, I called Air Canada, Chase Bank (to try to reverse a points redemption - the guy said not possible) and Chase Travel multiple times to try to get a refund, not a voucher. Always got denied due to AC's policies.

Called Chase travel on 6/26 because I read on an online newspaper article that AC was refunding trips originating in the EU. I guess that my roundtrip tickets starting in USA, traveling to EU and then returning to USA qualified for a refund. Rep said I qualified for a refund....it took about 10 minutes, but I received an email receipt showing the UR points back in my UR account. And they are there now! Yay!!!!!

TL;DR I was able to get a full refund on my roundtrip USA to EU via YYZ tickets on AC by calling the travel agency that booked the tickets and asking for a refund. Yay!!!!

Chase

rankourabu

it really isn't simple at all if you are Canadian, taxes complicate the math.

https://princeoftravel.com/blog/conv...les-a-test-run

u2hibby

Update:

Reminder I have flights from Nice to YYZ and then back to LHR.

When I called the SE line on Friday I was told a self service option would appear in my account on Monday. There was no such thing.
I called again this morning and the SE desk began the confirmation of my full credit. I received documentation and told it take take up to 50 business days for the refund.
Thank you adamsmith for your guidance upthread.

The key in the agents eyes was that because the flight originates out of the EU, a credit is due.

Jason

canadiancow

Fine, then divide by 1.05 if you're in Alberta, or whatever your tax rate is in other provinces. Slightly more complicated, but still simple multiplication and division.