Adam Smith

Someone upthread suggested making sure there are no Aeroplan numbers on the bookings, but it's unclear whether that's a viable solution.

The only way to know for sure is to make the second booking and see whether it gets flagged.

canadiancow

Generally speaking, if AC thinks it would be impossible to take the flights, they'll be flagged.

So even if there's no time overlap, if it would require you to get from BKK to YUL in 4 hours, the system would likely flag it.

They've also flagged some bookings that are technically flyable. But if they're definitely not flyable, expect one to be cancelled.

They use name, DOB, etc., so just not having an Aeroplan number isn't going to make much difference.

canopus27

It is an interesting question though ... if one flight is on March 2nd, and the other is on March 4th, it sounds like those should both be absolutely flyable. The question is likely whether or not AC's code makes the bold assumption that they have complete visibility into all aspects of your travel plans, and whether or not they assume ("know") if you're flying from BKK back to YUL on March 3rd (conceivably with another carrier)

Adam Smith

"Generally speaking" and "likely" being the key words. I have, at times, held three completely conflicting bookings and not had any of them flagged.

One of the really crappy parts about this terrible system is that not only can it flag things that are technically flyable, but it can flag them even when you have all the bookings in place to actually fly the "duplicate" routing. Even if @CaiusJuliusCeasar were to book a return BKK-YUL trip in between the two YUL-BKKs, with perfectly legal connections between the PNRs on both ends, it might still be flagged as duplicate.

canadiancow

YUL-VIE-BKK departing March 2 arrives in BKK at 1520 local on March 4. I can't find a YUL-FRA-HKT on March 4, but there's definitely not enough time to get back.

So it's not flyable.

Personally, I have no issue with AC disallowing this, but they really need to update the tariff.

Also, one thing to consider is that AC might only be looking at conflicts on AC-operated flights. Or possibly on AC-operated PNRs.

There is a chance they wouldn't catch this if one PNR is entirely operated by OS.

Far Siren

canadiancow Do you know if the detection & cancellation mechanism is fully AI or is there any human involvement at any point in the process? Just wondering whether subjective interpretation of the routes/flights by a human may be warranted in instances where the issue is not glaringly obvious as in same day/same flight dupe tickets.

canadiancow

I'm 99% sure it's all automated.

And in this case, there's nothing subjective. It would be impossible to fly both bookings.

To a computer, it IS glaringly obvious. If both flights are airborne at the same time, or you land in SYD 5 hours before departing from LON, a human might not recognize it due to time zone differences, but a computer has no trouble figuring that out.

I had a close one (I probably mentioned upthread) where I had something like YYZ-YUL and YYZ-YVR on separate bookings, but there was a good 6 hours between them, and one of them was cancelled. With flight schedules at the time, I can't recall if it was possible to fly back in time for YYZ-YVR. Maybe not on AC, but I think it was possible on WS, and certainly possible in theory.

Adam Smith

I've had a PNR cancelled where the conflict was between a UA flight and an AC one, so they're not looking only for conflicts on AC-operated flights.

But both PNRs did have some AC metal on them, so the latter is still possible.

Fully automatic (not sure AI is the right term) and doesn't seem to be a way for a human to override it. I've tried. Several times, with concierges I consider to be skilled and diligent working the problem.

But the booking will be flagged by a computer and cancelled by a computer without a human ever seeing it, let alone touching it.

Far Siren

I've had cancelled tickets reinstated by an agent before.

Adam Smith

That's hit or miss. But even if they reinstate it, unless you cancel the other booking, it's just going to get cancelled again.

CaiusJuliusCeasar

Sorry YUL-FRA-HKT is on march 5th. Thank you guys for all the help. With the uncertainty on Thailand entry measures, I've decided to let go OS J YUL-VIE-BKK and fly directly to HKT even if the FRA-HKT segment is Y.. I'll avoid taking the risk to see a booking get cancelled. BTW Canadiancow, your API is magnificient and incredibly useful. Thanks for that, I think you saved me about a month time in the last year looking at the AC spinning plane when using its search engine

ride red

Last year I had the same itinerary booked 3 days in a row. They cancelled day 3 but left day 1 and day 2. Whatever the rules, don't expect much consistency.

Adam Smith

If you're going to make the second booking and are okay with losing the first, might as well not cancel the first. Book the second and see what happens. If you have spare time, call AC and see whether it's flagged. Or, if you're comfortable, send me your PNR and I'll look in to whether it gets flagged as a duplicate.

CaiusJuliusCeasar

Already made the changes... I thought about doing what you said and get an interesting DP but again, I didn't want my new booking to get cancelled and not being able to book it again (unlikely, but 3 J seats are tough to get).

Which made me think about something: let's say you have "refundable with a fee" class booking. If you want to avoid the fee, you could just use the current free modification policy to book a latitute or flex booking and cancel afterward for free ?

Adam Smith

For future reference, when a PNR gets marked as duplicate, there is a deadline by which to address it. The duplicate will not be cancelled before then. The deadline varies depending on how far out the flight is. For a flight two months in the future, you would have had several days to see how this played out before you would have had to worry about a booking being cancelled.

No. The non-refundable portion stays non-refundable. And, to try to keep this thread on topic, you can't use a duplicate booking to force refund of a non-refundable booking either.