canadiancow

Which is the point. You're trying to use Latitude+eUp or Business Lowest (P) as Business Flexible (J), which commands a much higher price.

Flexible fares aren't meant for you to book a seat on every flight for the rest of the year, cancelling as you decide not to go.

My only complaint about all this is that the tariff doesn't match the implementation of this system. I've definitely broken the tariff before. I've booked and flown YOW-YYZ-YOW-YYZ-YOW on one day. Technically against the rules, though not even AC would claim that I did anything wrong.

Adam Smith

In the case of same day, same O/D, they're not changing the rules. It's explicitly prohibited by the tariff, which is what you're agreeing to when you purchase the ticket. Rule 25(E) says "Carrier does not permit a passenger to hold more than one confirmed reservation/ticket on the same departure flight/origin and destination for the same travel date".

So if you want to book 3 different YYZ-YVRs on the same day, it's clearly not allowed - the dupe detector is enforcing the rules. In the case of something like YYZ-MSP and YYZ-TPA on the same day, I agree, there's nothing in the rules that prohibits you from doing that, and it's inappropriate for AC to cancel it.

If AC wants to prevent that type of activity - and it's logical for them to want to, because we've already seen numerous extreme possible examples cited here - then they should amend the tariff. They could also significantly improve the implementation of the dupe detector:

• Some people have reported receiving notifications of duplicate bookings, but my observation is that this has never once occurred when a flight pass credit was used for at least one of the bookings
• They could also notify you which booking will be cancelled

vancouver25k

Unlike cow's EYW example, I can construct legitimate business reasons for breaking this rule - while in the air on a morning SFO-YVR, I find out I need to be in SFO for a meeting that day, and I have plans in YVR that depart before the first flight arrives the next day. So the natural solution is to do a day trip YVR-SFO, thereby flying SFO-YVR again on the same day. (Not that EYW isn't a legitimate business reason... a more common reason?)

This would be very helpful.

Adam Smith

Sure. I never said there was no legitimate reason for having same O/D bookings on the same day. But it's expressly prohibited by the tariff, so it's also hard to fault AC for enforcing it.

TV guy

I think it would be good to be able to get exceptions. In the Blue Jays example from above no one knew where the Jays were going until Sunday.

What my company did was book everyone that needed to go with AC to one destination and DL or UA to the other. Since there's a chance that AC won't get any money at all (they're all fully refundable) wouldn't it make more sense for them to offer the option to take AC?

YVR Cockroach

I'm in a situation where I don't trust WS to get me to where I need to go in a relatively timely (<19-20 hrs) manner, with 2 flights of the 1st flight CXL'd so far this year not due to weather (another 3 have CXL for the past 3 consecutive days due to cold and WS has already CXL'd tomorrow's flight which would make it 4 days in a row) and I have a tight connection at YYC to boot (1:25 transborder). Note: there are no direct let alone non-stop flights on any airline between where I am and where I need to go. Unfortunately the WS tickets are non-refundable PE ones.

As an alternative, I have purchased refundable ZZZ-YVR-XXX tickets in case WS CXLs the first leg. I am contemplating buying a refundable YYC-YVR-XXX ticket in case they get me to YYC but too late to make the ticketed connection to XXX and WS can't get me to XXX (there's only one - including connections - later flight to XXX that day). Contemplating buying another set of refundable tickets for YYC-YVR-XXX. Wondering if AC will flag the tickets if the ZZZ-XXX and YYC-XXX tickets are on the same YVR-XXX flight?

canadiancow

Almost certainly.

Adam Smith

The short answer is likely yes, although maybe not. They don't even have to be on the same flight to get flagged, they just need to conflict, in the duplicate booking detector's judgment. So you might book a totally legal YYC-YVR-YCD-YYZ-YYC trip across 2-3 itineraries with legal connections at each point, and have it be flagged by the dupe detector and possibly cancelled. Or you might have a YYC-YVR, YYC-YUL, and YYC-YOW all departing at the same time and have none of them flagged.

Some have claimed that not entering their Aeroplan numbers has allowed them to avoid the dupe detector. I'm not convinced that's the case, because it has definitely flagged bookings that don't have the same Aeroplan number. Maybe if you book one ticket using your middle name instead of your first name, it might work. Or maybe you accidentally get you birthdate wrong, although if you're crossing a border, that may create OLCI issues (although should be fixable by an agent).

As long as your booking is refundable, if it does get cancelled by the dupe detector, you can write in and get it refunded. But I've tried on several occasions to get them reinstated, and had mixed results (more common answer was no, it can't be reinstated).

The bottom line is the dupe detector is stupid and unpredictable, but there's a good chance it will cancel one of your bookings. Tons of additional detail in other posts in this thread.

YVR Cockroach

Thanks. We don't have Aeroplan accounts (long expired, with not many miles) and have been previously accumulating to OZ or US in its *A days at any rate). I think the name and DoB will get us.

Unfortunately AC is cheaper than UA for the refundable ZZZ-XXX ticket (same flights). UA does have a cheap YYC-DEN-XXX refundable ticket (cheaper than AC) but that's only 1 hr after the connecting WS flight is due to depart so not likely to make that flight with checked bags. UA doesn't offer AC's YYC-YVR-XXX flight. I guess it might have to be AS (no AA or DL flights the rest of the day).

billdokes

I was holding a YEG - YYZ AND a YEG - YVR ticket last Thursday that clearly conflicted (both Aeroplan redemptions, similar departure times) - I had a legitimate reason for doing so as I wasn't sure where I needed to be after YEG, so there was really no funny business going on - was not flagged by the dupe detector, but I did get an email from the YEG concierge to make sure I knew I was holding both tickets.

So in typical AC fashion YMMV in any given situation!

Adam Smith

It's possible that it was flagged by the dupe detector and you weren't notified. I've never been notified of any booking it has cancelled - one fairly definitive observation I've made is that it never notifies if either booking involves a flight pass credit. Not applicable in your case, but I've had other situations where I know it has been flagged but I've not been notified.

Unfortunately there's no self-serve way to tell whether something has been flagged. It does apparently flag the file or put notes on it or something, so AC agents can tell if they look at the booking that something has been flagged. It's possible that's how the Concierge knew about yours.

billdokes

Neither were cancelled by the system, I ended up cancelling both of them (without any cost or penalty as a SE) as I didn't end up going to YEG as planned prior. Not really sure how they can justify cancelling flexible bookings that conflict when they could be legitimate and by some of their most valuable clients...ie: a SEMM Management Consultant that needs to travel but isn't sure if they can make the 2 pm or the 4pm, or the SE2MM IT Consultant who isn't sure if they need to be in EWR or YYZ on a given day....I'm sure we could come up with many more examples.

Isn't that the whole point of flexible bookings? They cost a TON because they are flexible and can be refunded?

JacFlyer

Do you mean flagged or notifies? IMHO I have never seen dupe detector notifies anything. It always just silently cancel one of the bookings.

Adam Smith

Haven't we already been through this upthread? The tariff explicitly prohibits the former ("SEMM Management Consultant" scenario"), and the latter is not explicitly prohibited but there is business logic why they would want to do so (although I don't believe they should cancel a booking that doesn't break any rules). I've definitely written a lengthy post about this already.

I've never been notified, but other people supposedly have been. I believe @Bohemian1 posted about it upthread, for one.

expert7700

Why on earth would an airline allow SEMM to hold two conflicting tickets when one person cannot be 2 places at once? Let alone a tertiary booking, where the SE fully plans go fly WS as the primary carrier.

I have a hard enough time not getting my and my son's bookings cancelled as duplicate. ZERO characters in just our first names match, ZERO in justbl our middle names match. are they similsr but reversed... maybe

Makes 10hr flights lots of fun when AC says 'oops, sorry we cancelled your J seat in error but now the cabin is full.
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