Will AC continue to ignore YYC?
Jul 25, 2017, 7:10 am
#32
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: YYC, Canada
Programs: AC 35k
Posts: 1,898
Similar story with YQB. We have a metro population of 1.1M yet we are only served by a fleet of Dash-8s to YUL and YYZ. I wish we had non-stop options to the EU or to the US but it is not going to happen given AC's current strategy. It seems obvious from the comments made by @RatherBeInYOW, @Hellfire that other markets feel underserved besides YYC.
Meanwhile you can not treat YYC as a through-traffic city. In YVR case, it's still a popular leisure destination with more attractive tourism and even residential passengers, Calgary is primarily a work-only destination, with seasonal tourism.
With the oil industry on the slow recovery, debatable if years down the road, it is hard to see the AC management add any new route to YYC in the foreseeable future. I would not bet anything in this year for sure. Any addition of international routes, like MEX or PEK, will be many years away.
With the oil industry on the slow recovery, debatable if years down the road, it is hard to see the AC management add any new route to YYC in the foreseeable future. I would not bet anything in this year for sure. Any addition of international routes, like MEX or PEK, will be many years away.
Jul 25, 2017, 7:19 am
#33
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Ideally YOW, but probably not
Programs: AC SE*MM
Posts: 1,827
Cherry pick much? Re-read this from the same post I made:
How is that not true? The YYC status as "hub" benefits YYC a lot more than other similar sized Canadian cities, but you deservedly end up lower on the totem pole than all of the other AC hubs.
I'm not sure what exactly you have to complain about. You get a bunch of direct connections because YYC acts as sort of a middle of Canada hub, and for everything else you go through YVR or YYZ like everyone else.
Air Canada has a very public strategy of funneling people through hubs, which go roughy as YYZ > YVR > YUL > YYC.
YYC ends up lower on the hub totem pole because of less population, less O/D demand and a less desirable geographic situation relative the other hubs.
YYC ends up lower on the hub totem pole because of less population, less O/D demand and a less desirable geographic situation relative the other hubs.
I'm not sure what exactly you have to complain about. You get a bunch of direct connections because YYC acts as sort of a middle of Canada hub, and for everything else you go through YVR or YYZ like everyone else.
Jul 25, 2017, 7:50 am
#34
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: YYC, Canada
Programs: AC 35k
Posts: 1,898
What I'm trying to ask is - why do the other carriers feel they can expand, but AC has not expanded even a little? And the answer could be they are just content with the market they serve here and are fine allowing the other carriers to grow. I'm good with that answer. I'm trying to have a discussion around the business sense or strategy we are seeing here.
Jul 25, 2017, 7:57 am
#35
Join Date: Jun 2016
Programs: air miles
Posts: 283
+1
My view on AC's hubs has been this. YYZ is the main hub, YVR is the secondary hub with focus on the Asia pacific region, YUL is the secondary hub with focus on Europe. Maybe YYC would work as a hub for polar routes. This question is like asking why DFW or DEN don't get the same service/new routes that ATL or LAX get
Last edited by JustSomeGuy1978; Jul 25, 2017 at 8:08 am
Jul 25, 2017, 8:04 am
#36
Moderator, Air Canada; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: YYC
Programs: AC SE MM, FB Plat, WS Plat, BA Silver, DL GM, Marriott Plat, Hilton Gold, Accor Silver
Posts: 16,779
As part of its revamped schedule, WestJet said it’s increasing the number of connecting flights that land in Calgary by 55 per cent.
I think for the first time WS will offer more YVR-YYC flights than AC per day.
We've seen new service to Asia (PEK-Hainan), Central America (MEX-AM and BZE-WS), Europe (LGW-WS), but nothing from AC for several years except a mainline flight to HUX (I think weekly).
Will AC start offering new service or will they hold tight and allow WS and other carriers to expand?
Note: I'm not complaining or whining here - I'm asking a business question.
I think for the first time WS will offer more YVR-YYC flights than AC per day.
We've seen new service to Asia (PEK-Hainan), Central America (MEX-AM and BZE-WS), Europe (LGW-WS), but nothing from AC for several years except a mainline flight to HUX (I think weekly).
Will AC start offering new service or will they hold tight and allow WS and other carriers to expand?
Note: I'm not complaining or whining here - I'm asking a business question.
HUX service is rouge and on a 763. AC also seems to have upgauged Mexico service in general. SJD is mainline 320, CUN is a 763, PVR is 763. I think they were all rouge 319s before. The rouging of OGG also adds capacity to that route.
YYC is not a government town like YOW.
And, if it were, if anything that should have kept travel demand strong since government employees are typically unionized and insulated from economic pressures like recessions.
So I'm not sure what relevance that fact has to what we're discussing here.
IYHO.
There are some markets that stand out for me that are underserved by AC that let's WS print money. One that comes to mind is PVR, where clients are paying over $2K CAD for WS seats on the non-stops and in some cases, routing via YVR, YYJ or even YLW. The increased YLW flights up to WS 7x daily non-stops in W18 vs AC 3x daily. Just 2 that come to mind.
There are some markets that stand out for me that are underserved by AC that let's WS print money. One that comes to mind is PVR, where clients are paying over $2K CAD for WS seats on the non-stops and in some cases, routing via YVR, YYJ or even YLW. The increased YLW flights up to WS 7x daily non-stops in W18 vs AC 3x daily. Just 2 that come to mind.
The other development that made me shake my head as the new 40 service is announced for YYZ-MEX/CUN in additional their existing YUL-MEX/CUN offering. So now we have a choice of AC, AM and now 40. Why choose AC over the others? I don't any longer.
But YEG is not a AC hub. The whole point of this thread (which seems to be missed) is that AC designates YYC as a hub (and I've argued it's not a real hub but there was not agreement with me on that thread), yet it introduced 29 new international destinations in the past 2 years and not a single one from a "hub", YYC.
Relative to places like YQU, YXE, YQF, etc, YYC has tons of flight options.
Jul 25, 2017, 8:19 am
#37
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Ideally YOW, but probably not
Programs: AC SE*MM
Posts: 1,827
Actually, I'm not complaining at all. I don't care. Since I don't chase status and simply buy J (which gets you most of what you get with status anyway) I will just take whatever carrier I want. The whole point of this thread is not to whine about YYC service. The point is - other carriers are expanding in YYC, including WS, Hainan and AM. Out of 30 international routes added in the past two years, YYC got YYC-SFO in a CRA.
What I'm trying to ask is - why do the other carriers feel they can expand, but AC has not expanded even a little? And the answer could be they are just content with the market they serve here and are fine allowing the other carriers to grow. I'm good with that answer. I'm trying to have a discussion around the business sense or strategy we are seeing here.
What I'm trying to ask is - why do the other carriers feel they can expand, but AC has not expanded even a little? And the answer could be they are just content with the market they serve here and are fine allowing the other carriers to grow. I'm good with that answer. I'm trying to have a discussion around the business sense or strategy we are seeing here.
I expect the answer is what everyone is telling you: AC feels YYC already has enough O/D capacity, and it is only a "hub" insofar as it is serving the central Canadian market.
Air Canada is only going to add more direct routes to YYC if they feel other carriers are pulling pax from the AC network with direct routes. I mean probably 90% of the YOW capacity on AC metal that is not going to an AC hub can be traced to competition on the route from WS or Porter or Transat/Sunwing/etc. I suspect we only get YOW-Florida, YOW-Carribean and YOW-Western Canada because AC knows they'd lose business with people choosing to fly direct with competitors. I can't imagine why YYC would be any different.
Jul 25, 2017, 8:53 am
#38
Join Date: May 2003
Location: YEG
Programs: AC E50 MM, WJ Gold, Marriott Titanium Elite Lifetime
Posts: 3,082
YYC should consider themselves lucky, they are not ignored as much as YEG. 
We don't have any AC flights outside domestic! Thankfully other airlines do.
We don't have any AC flights outside domestic! Thankfully other airlines do.
Last edited by stinger; Jul 25, 2017 at 9:00 am
Jul 25, 2017, 9:42 am
#40
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: YYC, Canada
Programs: AC 35k
Posts: 1,898
I think you misinterpret the nature of the YYC hub. YYZ, YUL and YVR are bigger, with more O/D traffic and better positioned geographically for international service. YYC is a hub for traffic from the prairies to connect to the rest of Canada, TB, and some international. My friends who live in YXE think YYC is a great hub.
Relative to places like YQU, YXE, YQF, etc, YYC has tons of flight options.
Relative to places like YQU, YXE, YQF, etc, YYC has tons of flight options.
Jul 25, 2017, 9:45 am
#41
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: YYC
Posts: 23,808
For a city of the size of YYC having nonstops to LHR, FRA and NRT is actually pretty good.
Of course some folks around Red Deer have to jump in and complain about their limited service.
Jul 25, 2017, 9:45 am
#42
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: YYC, Canada
Programs: AC 35k
Posts: 1,898
a) Stop whining, you get better service than Yxx (not the point) OR;
b) Why are you asking this question? AC has smart people who know.
The whole point is to discuss the why. Is this too cerebral a topic for you guys?
Jul 25, 2017, 9:47 am
#43
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: YVR
Programs: AC SE*2MM. SPG Plat life
Posts: 4,644
IYHO.
. The increased YLW flights up to WS 7x daily non-stops in W18 vs AC 3x daily. Just 2 that come to mind.
http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/...oronto-launch/
. The increased YLW flights up to WS 7x daily non-stops in W18 vs AC 3x daily. Just 2 that come to mind.
http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/...oronto-launch/
Jul 25, 2017, 9:48 am
#44
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: YYC, Canada
Programs: AC 35k
Posts: 1,898
Actually, I am YYC-based, but again - not the point. If anyone actually posted in the WS forum I could start another thread called "Why does WS ignore YUL"? Although admittedly, WS does not claim YUL as a hub.