Will AC continue to ignore YYC?

Old Jul 24, 2017, 8:31 pm
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: YYC, Canada
Programs: AC 35k
Posts: 1,900
Will AC continue to ignore YYC?

AC has added gobs of new flights and general seat capacity to YYZ, YUL and YVR over the past two years. Alberta has been in a recession and even WS was forced to move 5% capacity east. But apparently that's changing:

http://calgaryherald.com/business/lo...-the-recession

As part of its revamped schedule, WestJet said it’s increasing the number of connecting flights that land in Calgary by 55 per cent.

I think for the first time WS will offer more YVR-YYC flights than AC per day.

We've seen new service to Asia (PEK-Hainan), Central America (MEX-AM and BZE-WS), Europe (LGW-WS), but nothing from AC for several years except a mainline flight to HUX (I think weekly).

Will AC start offering new service or will they hold tight and allow WS and other carriers to expand?

Note: I'm not complaining or whining here - I'm asking a business question.

Last edited by YXUFlyboy; Jul 24, 2017 at 8:46 pm
YXUFlyboy is offline  
Old Jul 24, 2017, 8:43 pm
  #2  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: YXE
Posts: 3,050
What's AC supposed to do? Dilute YVR, so they can chase largely non-existent business at YYC? Empty front cabins? AC's strategy seems to be working, why change it?
pitz is offline  
Old Jul 24, 2017, 8:45 pm
  #3  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: YYC, Canada
Programs: AC 35k
Posts: 1,900
Originally Posted by pitz
What's AC supposed to do? Dilute YVR, so they can chase largely non-existent business at YYC? Empty front cabins? AC's strategy seems to be working, why change it?
Note - I'm not criticizing. So your answer is - yes - they don't want to dilute YVR and are content to let WS and other carriers grow.
YXUFlyboy is offline  
Old Jul 24, 2017, 8:52 pm
  #4  
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: west coast best coast
Programs: TINDER GOLD, STARBUCKS GOLD, COSTCO EXECUTIVE!!
Posts: 3,991
I hardly think YVR is a big focus for Air Toronto. They just fly the bare minimum to get by. If AC were serious about YVR, they wouldn't be making local traffic here flying to YYZ to get to the Caribbean, huge swaths of the US, South America, etc
keitherson is offline  
Old Jul 24, 2017, 9:26 pm
  #5  
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: YVR
Programs: UA Premier Platinum
Posts: 3,759
What is the new service you think AC should add to YYC? More Toronto flights? Transborder? International?

I'm asking because I don't know anything about the YYC market. What routes do you see as being under-served? Is no one flying them or just not AC? Maybe AC feels like they can't compete with the other carriers at YYC.
eigenvector is offline  
Old Jul 24, 2017, 9:58 pm
  #6  
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: BKK/SIN/YYZ/YUL
Programs: DL, AC, Bonvoy, Accor, Dusit
Posts: 2,936
I don't think AC is going to offer much more until winter leisure travel season starts. The largest private sector employers are still Chemicals and energy related and they haven't bounced back yet. Until they do, the local economy as well as the strength of our national economy is going to be a bit sluggish.

Keep in mind that 4 of the top 5 employers are local government agencies (e.g. the city, education and the provincial health care system.) The demand for international travel outside of winter season hasn't come back to what it was.

Hopefully, Calgary comes back because that would mean the energy sector recovered, which in turn means our economy gets stronger and we all benefit.
Transpacificflyer is offline  
Old Jul 24, 2017, 10:11 pm
  #7  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Programs: AC SE100k, Marriott Titanium, UA Silver
Posts: 2,651
Being YYC based myself, I see limited potential for growth in the (premium) INTL market, aside from a direct flight to China on a 788/9.

Europe, LHR and FRA; NRT in Japan. That's pretty much it, volume-wise, that could justify a direct premium INTL flight out of YYC.

Rouge type / leisure flights though, I think there is room for growth.

The current frequency of YYC-YVR flights is plenty.
Diabeetus is offline  
Old Jul 24, 2017, 10:13 pm
  #8  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: YYZ
Programs: TK *G
Posts: 3,103
Giving the population and air travel market of Canada, it is hard to add much service, especially international service to YYC without diluting YVR/YYZ.
songsc is offline  
Old Jul 24, 2017, 10:18 pm
  #9  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: I'm From Here
Programs: AC*SE & 2MM/Bonvoy Gold/HHonors Diamond
Posts: 4,579
I'm sorry, as many others I find this post silly.

I can appreciate that you want more flights out of YYC and while we all have issues with AC management, I am sure they know where the money is and they know how many people route from YYC to YYZ or YVR to cross an ocean.

If the numbers are there, they will add routes.

WestJet is fantastic at marketing, so I'm sure their 55% boost is there, could be for a day or a week but in the end, I cannot see them having too many loss leaders before they re-adjust to where the money is.
lcohen999 is offline  
Old Jul 24, 2017, 10:40 pm
  #10  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: YYC
Posts: 23,848
Seems to me, AC currently serves YYC appropriately given the demand.

Mix of 777/788/789 to LHR and FRA. Apparently 789 to NRT. What more to expect?
Stranger is offline  
Old Jul 24, 2017, 10:54 pm
  #11  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: YYC, Canada
Programs: AC 35k
Posts: 1,900
Originally Posted by eigenvector
I'm asking because I don't know anything about the YYC market. What routes do you see as being under-served? Is no one flying them or just not AC? Maybe AC feels like they can't compete with the other carriers at YYC.
I think to me what's interesting is that other carriers are trying other routes that seem to be doing well (PEK and MEX), but AC has tried nothing. Since 2016, AC has launched 29 international routes from the other hubs. Isn't the point of of hub to route traffic thru to connect - it's not all about local demand? Some of these routes have or will fail, but they get attempted. But nothing from AC?

Like I said - this isn't personal - I don't really care and I'll take the most convenient connections (and I usually just pay for J when I want it). I just find it odd that other airlines seem to be expanding in YYC yet AC has announced barely anything in what is supposed to be a hub. FWIW I also find it weird that WS has barely a footprint at YUL, but then, WS doesn't say YUL is a hub or even a focus city.

I'll throw one route out as a possible example - why a seasonal flight to MEL out of YVR? They already have year round SYD and BNE? If you were going to "try" a route, why not try that through YYC, or mix it up and share with YVR? Is the demand so high ex-YVR for Oz?
YXUFlyboy is offline  
Old Jul 24, 2017, 10:55 pm
  #12  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: YYC, Canada
Programs: AC 35k
Posts: 1,900
Originally Posted by lcohen999
I'm sorry, as many others I find this post silly.

I can appreciate that you want more flights out of YYC and while we all have issues with AC management, I am sure they know where the money is and they know how many people route from YYC to YYZ or YVR to cross an ocean.
I really don't have issues with it. I just find it odd other carriers are adding service and AC has added nothing. If it were a lean couple of years for AC I'd get it but they are expanding like crazy.
YXUFlyboy is offline  
Old Jul 24, 2017, 11:00 pm
  #13  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: I'm From Here
Programs: AC*SE & 2MM/Bonvoy Gold/HHonors Diamond
Posts: 4,579
Originally Posted by YXUFlyboy
I really don't have issues with it. I just find it odd other carriers are adding service and AC has added nothing. If it were a lean couple of years for AC I'd get it but they are expanding like crazy.
I think it too has to do with in transit traffic, via YVR and YYZ are now built, or renovated to handle such traffic.

I am not fully aware of how YYC handles int'l pax either from the US to international or vice versa.

So they send them to where the facilities already exist.

I don't know for sure, I don't work at AC

I would say though that YYC probably get the traffic AC feels it can handle.

WestJet dosen't serve (at the moment) the same international markets, so that makes a difference, too
lcohen999 is offline  
Old Jul 24, 2017, 11:08 pm
  #14  
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Canada
Programs: BA Gold (OWE), Star Alliance Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,194
Originally Posted by lcohen999
I think it too has to do with in transit traffic, via YVR and YYZ are now built, or renovated to handle such traffic.

I am not fully aware of how YYC handles int'l pax either from the US to international or vice versa.

So they send them to where the facilities already exist.

I don't know for sure, I don't work at AC

I would say though that YYC probably get the traffic AC feels it can handle.

WestJet dosen't serve (at the moment) the same international markets, so that makes a difference, too
YYC handles transmitting better than YVR and it was actually the first airport to support OSS (One stop security).
reclusive46 is offline  
Old Jul 24, 2017, 11:09 pm
  #15  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,830
You do realize that Metro Vancouver has more than double the population of Metro Calgary, right?
CZBB is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.