Aug 24, 2022, 2:48 pm
Last edit by: flyingcrooked
AC Delayed/Cancelled Flight Compensation Threads
There are several threads on compensation for delayed/cancelled flights operated by AC.
If your question is about claiming compensation under EU or UK rules (a.k.a. EU261, EC261 or 'UK261'), this is the correct thread.
For information on which regime(s) you're eligible for compensation under, or which would be more favourable, please see: Air Canada Compensation For Delayed/Cancelled Flights
For information regarding APPR (Canadian regulations), please see: Claiming compensation from AC under APPR (Air Passenger Protection Regulations)
EU/UK 261:
- EU261 legislation predates Brexit, but post-Brexit the UK has retained the substance of the law; the UK version is informally known as UK261
- flights must be operated by an EU/UK carrier, or be departing the EU/UK (so any LH flight, anywhere, counts, but an AC flight counts only when departing the UK/EU)
- for claims under UK261, if you get nowhere with Air Canada you can file with AviationADR, an alternative dispute resolution service, this is relatively easy and there is no charge
- although EU Court rulings on the interpretation of EU261 are not binding on the interpretation of UK261, they are typically/often followed. For complicated or nuanced situations, the BA thread on EU261/UK261 is the most authoritative on flyertalk for EU/UK 261 issues.
There are several threads on compensation for delayed/cancelled flights operated by AC.
If your question is about claiming compensation under EU or UK rules (a.k.a. EU261, EC261 or 'UK261'), this is the correct thread.
For information on which regime(s) you're eligible for compensation under, or which would be more favourable, please see: Air Canada Compensation For Delayed/Cancelled Flights
For information regarding APPR (Canadian regulations), please see: Claiming compensation from AC under APPR (Air Passenger Protection Regulations)
EU/UK 261:
- EU261 legislation predates Brexit, but post-Brexit the UK has retained the substance of the law; the UK version is informally known as UK261
- flights must be operated by an EU/UK carrier, or be departing the EU/UK (so any LH flight, anywhere, counts, but an AC flight counts only when departing the UK/EU)
- for claims under UK261, if you get nowhere with Air Canada you can file with AviationADR, an alternative dispute resolution service, this is relatively easy and there is no charge
- although EU Court rulings on the interpretation of EU261 are not binding on the interpretation of UK261, they are typically/often followed. For complicated or nuanced situations, the BA thread on EU261/UK261 is the most authoritative on flyertalk for EU/UK 261 issues.
[Consolidated] Claiming EU261 Compensation from AC
Aug 24, 2022, 2:38 pm
#151
Moderator, Air Canada; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: YYC
Programs: AC SE MM, FB Plat, WS Plat, BA Silver, DL GM, Marriott Plat, Hilton Gold, Accor Silver
Posts: 16,777
Adam Smith , is there a way to put such a link in a sticky at the top of this thread?
Nov 15, 2022, 3:57 pm
#152
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: ATL
Programs: UA *Gold
Posts: 71
No action by AC
Basically, flew ATH>YYZ>ATL in J on a UA codeshare operated by AC.
3 days of cancellations in YYZ.. Prepared 38 page claim for about $3,000, sent to Montreal. Tracked as delivered in August.
No action. Sent it all again to AC "customer relations" in Calgary in September. No action.
Finally submitted the first 6 pages on October 1 on the website. Got a case number, but no action. I entered the case number into the chatbot and response was they would reply once they had a response ready.
By no action, I mean NOTHING.
Looks like Airhelp is my only recourse
3 days of cancellations in YYZ.. Prepared 38 page claim for about $3,000, sent to Montreal. Tracked as delivered in August.
No action. Sent it all again to AC "customer relations" in Calgary in September. No action.
Finally submitted the first 6 pages on October 1 on the website. Got a case number, but no action. I entered the case number into the chatbot and response was they would reply once they had a response ready.
By no action, I mean NOTHING.
Looks like Airhelp is my only recourse
Jun 21, 2023, 9:49 am
#154
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 194
Is there any harm in attempting to file a claim through AC, and then if/when their reply is unsatisfactory, submitting a claim through Airhelp or similar service?
Jul 11, 2023, 3:25 am
#155
Join Date: Jul 2023
Posts: 1
Hi,
The below was my itinerary:
MSP-YYZ - Air Canada
YYZ-FRA - Air Canada
FRA-HAJ. - Lufthansa
The flight from MSP was delayed at Toronto by 4 hrs. I missed my connecting flight to FRA boarding at 8:40pm. They offered a connecting flight through LHR which would have meant a 8 hour layover at LHR and would have meant me arriving very late at HAJ 10+hrs later compared to my original arrival time. After a 5 hour wait in the airport, they offered to pay for a hotel and rebooked me onto a different AC flight flying out the next evening at 4pm to FRA and arriving a day late in HAJ.
Since I missed my original Lufthansa connection FRA - HAJ and arrived a day late, am I eligible to compensation under the EU rules? Would such compensation just apply to the FRA-HAJ leg, which is not much in terms of distance or should I try to claim under the Canadian regulations? Any expert views here?
The below was my itinerary:
MSP-YYZ - Air Canada
YYZ-FRA - Air Canada
FRA-HAJ. - Lufthansa
The flight from MSP was delayed at Toronto by 4 hrs. I missed my connecting flight to FRA boarding at 8:40pm. They offered a connecting flight through LHR which would have meant a 8 hour layover at LHR and would have meant me arriving very late at HAJ 10+hrs later compared to my original arrival time. After a 5 hour wait in the airport, they offered to pay for a hotel and rebooked me onto a different AC flight flying out the next evening at 4pm to FRA and arriving a day late in HAJ.
Since I missed my original Lufthansa connection FRA - HAJ and arrived a day late, am I eligible to compensation under the EU rules? Would such compensation just apply to the FRA-HAJ leg, which is not much in terms of distance or should I try to claim under the Canadian regulations? Any expert views here?
Jul 31, 2023, 5:50 pm
#156
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 296
>3h delayed flight was July 11th from EU. On July 14th I submitted my claim to the link on the previous page.
Today, July 31st, my direct EU261 600 EUR claim was denied by AC as they claim "the delay was caused by airport security", which I disagree with. I don't even understand how that could be the case: the flight was delayed so even fairly late passengers would have made it through security/passport control with time.
So I've submitted through airhelp. I do wonder about airhelp's competitors. Maybe you get what you pay for and they're better/more experienced at pushing things through to the point of effective legal action, but it makes me wonder if their competitors are as good but cheaper due to lower marketing spend / straight up acceptance of lower margins.
It's not like a 600 EUR claim costs them any more to handle than a lower claim.
Today, July 31st, my direct EU261 600 EUR claim was denied by AC as they claim "the delay was caused by airport security", which I disagree with. I don't even understand how that could be the case: the flight was delayed so even fairly late passengers would have made it through security/passport control with time.
So I've submitted through airhelp. I do wonder about airhelp's competitors. Maybe you get what you pay for and they're better/more experienced at pushing things through to the point of effective legal action, but it makes me wonder if their competitors are as good but cheaper due to lower marketing spend / straight up acceptance of lower margins.
It's not like a 600 EUR claim costs them any more to handle than a lower claim.
Jul 31, 2023, 8:38 pm
#157
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Calgary
Programs: Aeroplan (Silver), Air Miles, IHG Rewards (Platinum)
Posts: 668
>3h delayed flight was July 11th from EU. On July 14th I submitted my claim to the link on the previous page.
Today, July 31st, my direct EU261 600 EUR claim was denied by AC as they claim "the delay was caused by airport security", which I disagree with. I don't even understand how that could be the case: the flight was delayed so even fairly late passengers would have made it through security/passport control with time.
So I've submitted through airhelp. I do wonder about airhelp's competitors. Maybe you get what you pay for and they're better/more experienced at pushing things through to the point of effective legal action, but it makes me wonder if their competitors are as good but cheaper due to lower marketing spend / straight up acceptance of lower margins.
It's not like a 600 EUR claim costs them any more to handle than a lower claim.
Today, July 31st, my direct EU261 600 EUR claim was denied by AC as they claim "the delay was caused by airport security", which I disagree with. I don't even understand how that could be the case: the flight was delayed so even fairly late passengers would have made it through security/passport control with time.
So I've submitted through airhelp. I do wonder about airhelp's competitors. Maybe you get what you pay for and they're better/more experienced at pushing things through to the point of effective legal action, but it makes me wonder if their competitors are as good but cheaper due to lower marketing spend / straight up acceptance of lower margins.
It's not like a 600 EUR claim costs them any more to handle than a lower claim.
Would guess that the Canada-Europe flight left late due to airport security and so the Europe-Canada flight back left late due to the late inbound flight which was late due to airport security, hence the denial.
Aug 1, 2023, 5:43 am
#158
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: FRA
Programs: AC SE 1MM, UA 1K, Hilton Lifetime Diamond, Marriott Gold Elite, Hertz PC
Posts: 2,943
I believe it has already been ruled by the European Court of Justice that a late inbound aircraft does not automatically constitute an extraordinary circumstance the airline can deny the claim for.
Aug 1, 2023, 10:21 am
#159
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: YVR - MILLS Waypoint (It's the third house on the left)
Programs: AC*SE100K, wood level status in various other programs
Posts: 6,232
From this ruling in 2020:
Article 5(3) of Regulation No 261/2004, read in the light of recital 14 of that regulation, must be interpreted as meaning that, in order to be exempted from its obligation to compensate passengers in the event of a long delay or cancellation of a flight, an operating air carrier may rely on an ‘extraordinary circumstance’ which affected a previous flight which it operated using the same aircraft, provided that there is a direct causal link between the occurrence of that circumstance and the delay or cancellation of the subsequent flight, which is for the national court to determine, having regard in particular to the conditions of operation of the aircraft in question by the operating air carrier concerned;
Aug 1, 2023, 11:37 am
#160
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, BA Gold, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,353
This is a somewhat murky area since the court has ruled that if the inbound's delay was due to extraordinary circumstances, no compensation is owed.
From this ruling in 2020:
This doc is a decent summary of some of the courts judgments around EU261/2004 and may be a good future reference.
From this ruling in 2020:
This doc is a decent summary of some of the courts judgments around EU261/2004 and may be a good future reference.
If something extraordinary happens in YYZ, such that YYZ-MUC is late, and then MUC-YYZ is late, I can kinda buy that.
But if something extraordinary happens in SYD, such that SYD-YVR is late, and YVR-YYZ is late, and YYZ-LHR is late, and LHR-YYZ is late, and YYZ-MUC is late, and then MUC-YYZ is late... is that still extraordinary?
Aug 1, 2023, 1:15 pm
#161
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 194
Now on to my second EU/UK261 claim with AC before the first is solved.
On an LHR-YYZ-YVR itinerary, if the first flight is on time, but a delay occurs in YYZ such that the traveller arrives in YVR 4+ hours late, would UK261 compensation apply?
On an LHR-YYZ-YVR itinerary, if the first flight is on time, but a delay occurs in YYZ such that the traveller arrives in YVR 4+ hours late, would UK261 compensation apply?
Last edited by eggsbenedict; Aug 1, 2023 at 1:22 pm
Aug 1, 2023, 3:17 pm
#162
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: YVR - MILLS Waypoint (It's the third house on the left)
Programs: AC*SE100K, wood level status in various other programs
Posts: 6,232
Like I said, it gets murky. If you read some of these decisions carefully, they all ultimately say that it's up to the courts (my paraphrase).
Aug 1, 2023, 3:45 pm
#163
Formerly known as newbie elite
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: YUL
Programs: IHG Diamond Ambassador, Accor Platinum, AC50K
Posts: 2,928
Have a question about who and if I can claim EU261
014 ticket YUL-FRA-FLR-FCO-YUL with the FLR-FCO on Alitalia. FLR-FCO went mechanical causing spouse to miss AC FCO-YUL flight, she got home a day later via YYZ.
Who do I claim against, AC or AZ?
014 ticket YUL-FRA-FLR-FCO-YUL with the FLR-FCO on Alitalia. FLR-FCO went mechanical causing spouse to miss AC FCO-YUL flight, she got home a day later via YYZ.
Who do I claim against, AC or AZ?
Aug 1, 2023, 8:40 pm
#164
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: YUL
Programs: AC SE (*A Gold), Bonvoy Platinum Elite, Hilton Gold, Amex Platinum / AP Reserve, NEXUS, Global Entry
Posts: 5,691
I imagine they’ll give you the same answer if you make a claim for the FLR-FCO segment… I’d suggest using the FCO-YYZ flight number in the form, and point out that it arrived >X hours after the original booking.
Aug 1, 2023, 11:20 pm
#165
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 296
(Sometimes airlines "save" themselves by rebooking you onto a direct flight so you're not delayed, or an earlier latter segment to make up for delays. This might be one reason why airlines sell connecting flights for less: it gives them more flexibility to get you to your destination on-time and not owe you compensation).