Sep 19, 2017, 10:25 am
Last edit by: 24left
Jan 18 2021 TC issues Airworthiness Directive for the 737 MAX
Link to post https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/32976892-post4096.html
Cabin photos
Post 976 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29534462-post976.html
Post 1300 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29780203-post1300.html
Cabin Layout
Interior Specs can be found here https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/fly/onboard/fleet.html
- Window seats may feel narrower to come as the armrests are placed "into" the "curvature" of the cabin.
- Seats with no windows feel even more narrower as there is no space created by the curvature of window.
- All bulkhead seats have very limited legroom.
- Seats 15A, 16A, 16F, 17A and 17F have limited windows.
- Exit rows 19 and 20 have more legroom than regular preferred seats.
Routes
The 737 MAX is designated to replace the A320-series. Based on announcements and schedule updates, the following specific routes will be operated by the 737 MAX in future:
YYZ-LAX (periodic flights)
YYZ-SNN (new route)
YUL-DUB (new route)
YYZ/YUL-KEF (replacing Rouge A319)
YYT-LHR (replacing Mainline A319)
YHZ-LHR (replacing Mainline B767)
Hawaii Routes YVR/YYC (replacing Rouge B767)
Many domestic trunk routes (YYZ, YVR, YUL, YYC) now operated by 7M8, replacing A320 family
Link to post https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/32976892-post4096.html
Cabin photos
Post 976 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29534462-post976.html
Post 1300 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29780203-post1300.html
Cabin Layout
Interior Specs can be found here https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/fly/onboard/fleet.html
- Window seats may feel narrower to come as the armrests are placed "into" the "curvature" of the cabin.
- Seats with no windows feel even more narrower as there is no space created by the curvature of window.
- All bulkhead seats have very limited legroom.
- Seats 15A, 16A, 16F, 17A and 17F have limited windows.
- Exit rows 19 and 20 have more legroom than regular preferred seats.
Routes
The 737 MAX is designated to replace the A320-series. Based on announcements and schedule updates, the following specific routes will be operated by the 737 MAX in future:
YYZ-LAX (periodic flights)
YYZ-SNN (new route)
YUL-DUB (new route)
YYZ/YUL-KEF (replacing Rouge A319)
YYT-LHR (replacing Mainline A319)
YHZ-LHR (replacing Mainline B767)
Hawaii Routes YVR/YYC (replacing Rouge B767)
Many domestic trunk routes (YYZ, YVR, YUL, YYC) now operated by 7M8, replacing A320 family
Air Canada Selects Boeing 737 MAX to Renew Mainline Narrowbody Fleet
Oct 8, 2020, 3:45 pm
#4006
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Vancouver
Programs: AC SE100K 1MM, FB Platinum, Bonvoy Platinum Elite, IHG Gold Elite, Hilton Gold
Posts: 1,605
AC has negotiated a partial settlement with Boeing already. They will likely conclude the settlement negotiations once there is a return of service. AC is unlikely to sue Boeing. Keep in mind they have an additional 41 aircraft they do or will own (unless they negotiate a further sale and leaseback).
Oct 8, 2020, 7:21 pm
#4007
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Toronto, ON
Programs: AC 75K
Posts: 6,365
AC has negotiated a partial settlement with Boeing already. They will likely conclude the settlement negotiations once there is a return of service. AC is unlikely to sue Boeing. Keep in mind they have an additional 41 aircraft they do or will own (unless they negotiate a further sale and leaseback).
Oct 8, 2020, 9:08 pm
#4008
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Vancouver
Programs: AC SE100K 1MM, FB Platinum, Bonvoy Platinum Elite, IHG Gold Elite, Hilton Gold
Posts: 1,605
Partial settlement? There’s no indication in any of AC’s public filings that there will be further compensation. AC’s own words are: ‘Air Canada has concluded its discussions with Boeing to settle the terms of an arrangement in relation to the grounding of the Boeing 737 MAX aircraft.’
https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2020...se-to-COVID-19
I don't recall AC revealing what the compensation was. Michael Rousseau indicated partial payments in late 2019 and 2020. There is potentially more compensation to be paid.
https://montrealgazette.com/business...-max-grounding
Oct 8, 2020, 10:40 pm
#4009
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: YVR
Programs: AC E50K, NEXUS
Posts: 645
"In its news release dated February 18, 2020, Air Canada disclosed that it was in discussions with Boeing to settle the terms of an arrangement in relation to the grounding of the Boeing 737 MAX aircraft. These discussions have now concluded, however, as the terms of the arrangement are subject to confidentiality restrictions, Air Canada will not be disclosing its terms."
https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2020...se-to-COVID-19
I don't recall AC revealing what the compensation was. Michael Rousseau indicated partial payments in late 2019 and 2020. There is potentially more compensation to be paid.
https://montrealgazette.com/business...-max-grounding
https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2020...se-to-COVID-19
I don't recall AC revealing what the compensation was. Michael Rousseau indicated partial payments in late 2019 and 2020. There is potentially more compensation to be paid.
https://montrealgazette.com/business...-max-grounding
10.6. CAPITAL EXPENDITURES
737 MAX AIRCRAFT Air Canada’s agreement with Boeing for the purchase of Boeing 737 MAX aircraft provided for: • Firm orders for 61 Boeing 737 MAX aircraft, consisting of 50 Boeing 737 MAX 8 and 11 Boeing 737 MAX 9 aircraft with substitution rights between them as well as for the Boeing 737 MAX 7 aircraft. • Purchase options for 18 Boeing 737 MAX aircraft. • Certain rights to purchase an additional 30 Boeing 737 MAX aircraft. Twenty-four Boeing 737 MAX 8 aircraft have been delivered, and Air Canada’s order contemplated the delivery of the remaining 37 Boeing 737 MAX aircraft from 2019 to 2024. Given the grounding of the Boeing 737 MAX aircraft and the uncertainty surrounding their return to service, Air Canada assumes, in the capital commitments table below, that six of 12 undelivered Boeing 737 MAX aircraft originally scheduled for delivery in 2019 will be delivered in 2020 and the remaining six will be delivered in 2021. Air Canada also assumes that 14 undelivered Boeing 737 MAX aircraft originally scheduled for delivery in 2020 will be delivered in 2021. This projected delivery schedule is subject to change given the grounding of the Boeing 737 MAX aircraft and the uncertainty surrounding their return to service. Air Canada has been in discussions with Boeing and is seeking to settle the terms of an arrangement in relation to grounding of the Boeing 737 MAX aircraft. Until such time as an arrangement is finalized, information regarding the outstanding purchase commitments for aircraft is subject to change. An initial settlement payment contemplated by the arrangement was made to Air Canada during the fourth quarter of 2019, with any further amounts subject to finalization of the arrangement. The compensation is accounted for as an adjustment to the purchase price of current and future deliveries and will flow through Air Canada’s consolidated statement of operations as reduced depreciation expense over the life of the aircraft, and as a reduction to additions to property and equipment on the consolidated statement of cash flow.
737 MAX AIRCRAFT Air Canada’s agreement with Boeing for the purchase of Boeing 737 MAX aircraft provided for: • Firm orders for 61 Boeing 737 MAX aircraft, consisting of 50 Boeing 737 MAX 8 and 11 Boeing 737 MAX 9 aircraft with substitution rights between them as well as for the Boeing 737 MAX 7 aircraft. • Purchase options for 18 Boeing 737 MAX aircraft. • Certain rights to purchase an additional 30 Boeing 737 MAX aircraft. Twenty-four Boeing 737 MAX 8 aircraft have been delivered, and Air Canada’s order contemplated the delivery of the remaining 37 Boeing 737 MAX aircraft from 2019 to 2024. Given the grounding of the Boeing 737 MAX aircraft and the uncertainty surrounding their return to service, Air Canada assumes, in the capital commitments table below, that six of 12 undelivered Boeing 737 MAX aircraft originally scheduled for delivery in 2019 will be delivered in 2020 and the remaining six will be delivered in 2021. Air Canada also assumes that 14 undelivered Boeing 737 MAX aircraft originally scheduled for delivery in 2020 will be delivered in 2021. This projected delivery schedule is subject to change given the grounding of the Boeing 737 MAX aircraft and the uncertainty surrounding their return to service. Air Canada has been in discussions with Boeing and is seeking to settle the terms of an arrangement in relation to grounding of the Boeing 737 MAX aircraft. Until such time as an arrangement is finalized, information regarding the outstanding purchase commitments for aircraft is subject to change. An initial settlement payment contemplated by the arrangement was made to Air Canada during the fourth quarter of 2019, with any further amounts subject to finalization of the arrangement. The compensation is accounted for as an adjustment to the purchase price of current and future deliveries and will flow through Air Canada’s consolidated statement of operations as reduced depreciation expense over the life of the aircraft, and as a reduction to additions to property and equipment on the consolidated statement of cash flow.
Oct 9, 2020, 7:07 am
#4010
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Halifax
Programs: AC SE100K, Marriott Lifetime Platinum Elite. NEXUS
Posts: 4,574
There is no way there was/is a final settlement: don't know how long they will be out of service, how much the upgrade costs will be, how much the retraining costs will be, or even (then) if they could be flown again at all.
Oct 9, 2020, 8:32 am
#4011
Join Date: Mar 2008
Programs: AC SE MM, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 904
From my non-business oriented perspective, it would seem easier for AC to sell these airplanes under the auspice of a long-term leaseback and then cancel that lease contract than trying to sell an unwanted aircraft to a depreciated market in the future should the situation turn worse.
Oct 9, 2020, 10:12 am
#4012
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Halifax
Programs: AC SE100K, Marriott Lifetime Platinum Elite. NEXUS
Posts: 4,574
From my non-business oriented perspective, it would seem easier for AC to sell these airplanes under the auspice of a long-term leaseback and then cancel that lease contract than trying to sell an unwanted aircraft to a depreciated market in the future should the situation turn worse.
Oct 16, 2020, 6:18 pm
#4013
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: YVR
Programs: AC E50K, NEXUS
Posts: 645
Bloomberg: Boeing Max Judged Safe to Fly by Europe’s Aviation Regulator
It's behind a paywall, but here is the money quote:
It's behind a paywall, but here is the money quote:
Europe’s top aviation regulator said he’s satisfied that changes to Boeing Co.’s 737 Max have made the plane safe enough to return to the region’s skies before 2020 is out, even as a further upgrade his agency demanded won’t be ready for up to two years.
Oct 17, 2020, 4:56 am
#4014
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: YLW
Programs: AC- SE100 1MM, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Platinum, National Executive, Nexus/GE
Posts: 4,319
To be efficient I can see AC flying A220's & Max's all winter? Providing we also approve the max and folks are not afraid to fly on the plane. Covid fears and fly on a Max fears, could there be another free insurance policy coming soon?
Oct 17, 2020, 7:54 am
#4015
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
Posts: 18,877
The breaking news alert from the Europeans arrived sometime after 03:00 on Oct 16. I was curious if anyone here would notice - or care. It wasn't until after 20:00 when @bimmerdriver posted. Maybe the pandemic, reduction in flying or the really great fall weather has left many with the general feeling of shrug.
Oct 17, 2020, 9:48 am
#4016
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: YVR
Programs: AC E50K, NEXUS
Posts: 645
The breaking news alert from the Europeans arrived sometime after 03:00 on Oct 16. I was curious if anyone here would notice - or care. It wasn't until after 20:00 when @bimmerdriver posted. Maybe the pandemic, reduction in flying or the really great fall weather has left many with the general feeling of shrug.
Oct 17, 2020, 9:52 am
#4017
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
Posts: 18,877
The MAX nightmare will never really go away as long as those planes fly. Logic is not the basis of all human decisions, as you know.
Oct 17, 2020, 10:04 am
#4018
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: YYC
Programs: BA bronze, Aeroplan peon
Posts: 4,747
It's not fit to fly yet, but certainly closer to doing so. https://www.aerotime.aero/rytis.bere...ax-safe-to-fly
Oct 17, 2020, 10:42 am
#4019
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Halifax
Programs: AC SE100K, Marriott Lifetime Platinum Elite. NEXUS
Posts: 4,574
The 737 MAX, a product which exists so as to not have to train pilots on something new, is dead.
Oct 17, 2020, 1:22 pm
#4020
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: YOW
Programs: AC SE, FOTSG Platinum
Posts: 5,738
In normal times, I could absolutely see airlines offering a "you don't like the MAX, we get it" policy, but even if they offer one now, with current reductions there's maybe a dozen routes in the whole system that might get a 7M8 assigned, where there's even another aircraft to move to.
Okay, fine, you don't want to fly a 7M8 YVR-YYZ or YYC-YOW, there's one or two options to re-route if you don't mind a middle seat, but if the one daily YVR-PHX is operated by a 7M8, and so is tomorrow's, and tomorrow's and tomorrow's, AC isn't going to hold itself responsible for booking you onto United metal through Denver.