Sep 19, 2017, 10:25 am
Last edit by: 24left
Jan 18 2021 TC issues Airworthiness Directive for the 737 MAX
Link to post https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/32976892-post4096.html
Cabin photos
Post 976 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29534462-post976.html
Post 1300 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29780203-post1300.html
Cabin Layout
Interior Specs can be found here https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/fly/onboard/fleet.html
- Window seats may feel narrower to come as the armrests are placed "into" the "curvature" of the cabin.
- Seats with no windows feel even more narrower as there is no space created by the curvature of window.
- All bulkhead seats have very limited legroom.
- Seats 15A, 16A, 16F, 17A and 17F have limited windows.
- Exit rows 19 and 20 have more legroom than regular preferred seats.
Routes
The 737 MAX is designated to replace the A320-series. Based on announcements and schedule updates, the following specific routes will be operated by the 737 MAX in future:
YYZ-LAX (periodic flights)
YYZ-SNN (new route)
YUL-DUB (new route)
YYZ/YUL-KEF (replacing Rouge A319)
YYT-LHR (replacing Mainline A319)
YHZ-LHR (replacing Mainline B767)
Hawaii Routes YVR/YYC (replacing Rouge B767)
Many domestic trunk routes (YYZ, YVR, YUL, YYC) now operated by 7M8, replacing A320 family
Link to post https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/32976892-post4096.html
Cabin photos
Post 976 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29534462-post976.html
Post 1300 https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29780203-post1300.html
Cabin Layout
Interior Specs can be found here https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/fly/onboard/fleet.html
- Window seats may feel narrower to come as the armrests are placed "into" the "curvature" of the cabin.
- Seats with no windows feel even more narrower as there is no space created by the curvature of window.
- All bulkhead seats have very limited legroom.
- Seats 15A, 16A, 16F, 17A and 17F have limited windows.
- Exit rows 19 and 20 have more legroom than regular preferred seats.
Routes
The 737 MAX is designated to replace the A320-series. Based on announcements and schedule updates, the following specific routes will be operated by the 737 MAX in future:
YYZ-LAX (periodic flights)
YYZ-SNN (new route)
YUL-DUB (new route)
YYZ/YUL-KEF (replacing Rouge A319)
YYT-LHR (replacing Mainline A319)
YHZ-LHR (replacing Mainline B767)
Hawaii Routes YVR/YYC (replacing Rouge B767)
Many domestic trunk routes (YYZ, YVR, YUL, YYC) now operated by 7M8, replacing A320 family
Air Canada Selects Boeing 737 MAX to Renew Mainline Narrowbody Fleet
Mar 26, 2019, 12:02 pm
#2251
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Mississauga Ontario
Posts: 4,105
Yup, I ain't getting on one of these failed aircraft anytime soon.
"
https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/26/ameri...ntl/index.html
"
NYT: Pilots had 40 seconds to avert disaster in test of Boeing 737 Max plane"
https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/26/ameri...ntl/index.html
Mar 26, 2019, 12:16 pm
#2252
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: YVR
Programs: AC 75K, BA Gold, Marriott Platinum, National EE, Sixt Platinum, Hertz PC, AVIS PC
Posts: 1,913
737 Max flight manual may have left MCAS information on 'cutting room floor'
Flight manual of Boeing's 737 Max 8 planes mentions MCAS computer system only once
In the over 1,600-page flight manual of Boeing's 737 Max 8 planes, the aircraft's new MCAS computer system, now at the centre of the investigations into two deadly crashes, is mentioned only once by name — in the glossary of abbreviated terms.https://www.cbc.ca/news/boeing-737-m...CBjoNlF5A_4p8M
Ron.
Mar 26, 2019, 12:45 pm
#2253
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: YVR
Programs: Bottom feeder Star Gold
Posts: 2,652
Both of the articles above refer to the state of the Max program in hindsight, ie: before the global grounding. When they are eventually certified to fly again, the Max aircraft will possess the necessary software, hardware, manual references and pilot training required to ensure that MCAS will not cause another crash. I have little doubt the manufacturer will also exhaustively review every other system from nose to tail. People are free to hold their own opinions and comfort levels when deciding whether or not to fly this aircraft again, but it's safe to say that hazards from this deficiency will have been well and truly mitigated. That may be of little comfort for many thousands of Canadian passengers who face future Max flights with AC, WS etc.
The crashes shouldn't have happened in the first place; Boeing is hardly absolved from lack of oversight, decision-making or mishandling of the Max program that may have led to the accidents.
The crashes shouldn't have happened in the first place; Boeing is hardly absolved from lack of oversight, decision-making or mishandling of the Max program that may have led to the accidents.
Mar 26, 2019, 2:29 pm
#2254
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SJC/YUL
Programs: DL PM, Marriott Gold
Posts: 3,878
I agree with you that the low hanging mitigations will be implemented.
Mar 26, 2019, 2:47 pm
#2255
Join Date: Jun 2009
Programs: Air Canada Aeroplan
Posts: 1,748
That leaves the hazards from any other deficiency stemming from the same root cause - i.e. the drive to push the MAX to the flightline on a ridiculously compressed schedule, cutting corners and implementing undocumented kludges to maintain a supposed type interoperability. Boeing needs more than a software update to regain the public's trust.
Mar 26, 2019, 2:53 pm
#2256
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: YVR - MILLS Waypoint (It's the third house on the left)
Programs: AC*SE100K, wood level status in various other programs
Posts: 6,232
And this, from the Seattle Times:
FAA had initial version of Boeing’s proposed software fix seven weeks before the Ethiopian crash
Acting Federal Aviation Administration chief Daniel Elwell will tell a Senate hearing Wednesday that “Boeing submitted … to the FAA for certification” its proposed flight control software enhancement for the 737 MAX on January 21, according to a copy of his prepared remarks obtained by the Seattle Times.
That’s nearly seven weeks before the fatal crash of Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 that killed 157 people.
Elwell’s testimony says “the FAA’s ongoing review of this software installation and training is an agency priority.”
Yet the revelation that the agency had at least an early version of Boeing’s software patch in January is sure to raise the question of whether it could have been approved and deployed to the worldwide MAX fleet earlier, before the Ethiopian accident.
FAA had initial version of Boeing’s proposed software fix seven weeks before the Ethiopian crash
Acting Federal Aviation Administration chief Daniel Elwell will tell a Senate hearing Wednesday that “Boeing submitted … to the FAA for certification” its proposed flight control software enhancement for the 737 MAX on January 21, according to a copy of his prepared remarks obtained by the Seattle Times.
That’s nearly seven weeks before the fatal crash of Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 that killed 157 people.
Elwell’s testimony says “the FAA’s ongoing review of this software installation and training is an agency priority.”
Yet the revelation that the agency had at least an early version of Boeing’s software patch in January is sure to raise the question of whether it could have been approved and deployed to the worldwide MAX fleet earlier, before the Ethiopian accident.
Last edited by tcook052; Mar 26, 2019 at 2:57 pm Reason: Pasting news articles in entirety against FT Rules
Mar 26, 2019, 3:00 pm
#2257
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 2,494
And this, from the Seattle Times:
FAA had initial version of Boeing’s proposed software fix seven weeks before the Ethiopian crash
Acting Federal Aviation Administration chief Daniel Elwell will tell a Senate hearing Wednesday that “Boeing submitted … to the FAA for certification” its proposed flight control software enhancement for the 737 MAX on January 21, according to a copy of his prepared remarks obtained by the Seattle Times.
That’s nearly seven weeks before the fatal crash of Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 that killed 157 people.
Elwell’s testimony says “the FAA’s ongoing review of this software installation and training is an agency priority.”
Yet the revelation that the agency had at least an early version of Boeing’s software patch in January is sure to raise the question of whether it could have been approved and deployed to the worldwide MAX fleet earlier, before the Ethiopian accident.
FAA had initial version of Boeing’s proposed software fix seven weeks before the Ethiopian crash
Acting Federal Aviation Administration chief Daniel Elwell will tell a Senate hearing Wednesday that “Boeing submitted … to the FAA for certification” its proposed flight control software enhancement for the 737 MAX on January 21, according to a copy of his prepared remarks obtained by the Seattle Times.
That’s nearly seven weeks before the fatal crash of Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 that killed 157 people.
Elwell’s testimony says “the FAA’s ongoing review of this software installation and training is an agency priority.”
Yet the revelation that the agency had at least an early version of Boeing’s software patch in January is sure to raise the question of whether it could have been approved and deployed to the worldwide MAX fleet earlier, before the Ethiopian accident.
Mar 26, 2019, 4:15 pm
#2258
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: YYZ most of the time
Programs: AC SE100K MM, Princess Elite
Posts: 3,921
And this, from the Seattle Times:
FAA had initial version of Boeing’s proposed software fix seven weeks before the Ethiopian crash
Acting Federal Aviation Administration chief Daniel Elwell will tell a Senate hearing Wednesday that “Boeing submitted … to the FAA for certification” its proposed flight control software enhancement for the 737 MAX on January 21, according to a copy of his prepared remarks obtained by the Seattle Times.
That’s nearly seven weeks before the fatal crash of Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 that killed 157 people.
Elwell’s testimony says “the FAA’s ongoing review of this software installation and training is an agency priority.”
Yet the revelation that the agency had at least an early version of Boeing’s software patch in January is sure to raise the question of whether it could have been approved and deployed to the worldwide MAX fleet earlier, before the Ethiopian accident.
FAA had initial version of Boeing’s proposed software fix seven weeks before the Ethiopian crash
Acting Federal Aviation Administration chief Daniel Elwell will tell a Senate hearing Wednesday that “Boeing submitted … to the FAA for certification” its proposed flight control software enhancement for the 737 MAX on January 21, according to a copy of his prepared remarks obtained by the Seattle Times.
That’s nearly seven weeks before the fatal crash of Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 that killed 157 people.
Elwell’s testimony says “the FAA’s ongoing review of this software installation and training is an agency priority.”
Yet the revelation that the agency had at least an early version of Boeing’s software patch in January is sure to raise the question of whether it could have been approved and deployed to the worldwide MAX fleet earlier, before the Ethiopian accident.
Everything was backed up.
Mar 26, 2019, 4:27 pm
#2259
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Mississauga Ontario
Posts: 4,105
It's a *trust* issue. That's harder to fix.
Mar 26, 2019, 4:31 pm
#2261
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Halifax
Programs: AC SE100K, Marriott Lifetime Platinum Elite. NEXUS
Posts: 4,569
The FAA has demonstrated, through perhaps decades of cuts and the recent shutdown, they are not able to stand up to Boeing, either.
This is not a new never before collection of 6 failures as modern crashes usually are. This was due to a explicit cost savings move.
The whole concept of trust is gone. Boeing to the FAA, Boeing to pilots, Boeing to airlines, the FAA to other regulatory agencies worldwide.
Why should Transport Canada take FAA word for it in a couple of months? Why should Air Canada? Why should I?
MAX needs to start from scratch. Taxi test. Touch and go test. Ascend at 1° test. Ascend at 2° test. Etc etc etc.
The burden is on Boeing and the FAA to do a full and documented test process.
Mar 26, 2019, 4:36 pm
#2262
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: YYZ most of the time
Programs: AC SE100K MM, Princess Elite
Posts: 3,921
Do you trust cars? Do you trust ATC? Why should you?
I would get on a MAX tomorrow if they were still flying. Actually not tomorrow since I have to work, but Tuesday of next week when I have 2 flights, one of which was supposed to be a MAX, I would have no hesitation getting on board.
I would get on a MAX tomorrow if they were still flying. Actually not tomorrow since I have to work, but Tuesday of next week when I have 2 flights, one of which was supposed to be a MAX, I would have no hesitation getting on board.
Mar 26, 2019, 5:33 pm
#2263
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Mississauga Ontario
Posts: 4,105
As they say in Oz, 'good on you.'
Hope you find a pilot
"For my fellow pilots, trust has been seriously eroded. Considering that Boeing did not include a detailed description of the MCAS (Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System), the flight-control software that has been linked to both crashes, can pilots trust Boeing with any of its other products? They are right to ask, "What else is Boeing not telling me?" "
Pilot: Can pilots trust Boeing again?
https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/25/opini...end/index.html
Of course, what do pilots know?
Like I said, it's not an engineering issue anymore. It's a trust issue.
Hope you find a pilot
"For my fellow pilots, trust has been seriously eroded. Considering that Boeing did not include a detailed description of the MCAS (Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System), the flight-control software that has been linked to both crashes, can pilots trust Boeing with any of its other products? They are right to ask, "What else is Boeing not telling me?" "
Pilot: Can pilots trust Boeing again?
https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/25/opini...end/index.html
Of course, what do pilots know?
Like I said, it's not an engineering issue anymore. It's a trust issue.
Mar 26, 2019, 6:24 pm
#2264
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SJC/YUL
Programs: DL PM, Marriott Gold
Posts: 3,878
Oh boy. Southwest 8701 (737 Max re-positioning flight) declared an emergency today on takeoff from MCO and returned safely to MCO.
Appears to have been an engine issue and not related to MCAS.
Appears to have been an engine issue and not related to MCAS.
Mar 26, 2019, 7:35 pm
#2265
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Ideally YOW, but probably not
Programs: AC SE*MM
Posts: 1,827
But it was a MAX so let's run news stories! Post in FT!! Panic!!!