Wpgjetse

To bad the 787's were so late. Because of this, AC got great prices on the 737 and we don't get new A320's. This is a 20 year downgrade!

winnipegrev

And a cool little fact: the delay gave AC time to re-evaluate its original plan (06/07) for the 788s to be 32J/190Y. True story.

PLeblond

Some of us think this is a win. I'll take a 737 over an Airbus any day.

As they used to say: If it ain't Boeing, I ain't going.

In all seriousness, Airbus released the Neo well before the decision on the Max. AC had ample time to evaluate both platforms and there were good reasons for choosing either. 787 compensation has been dealt with, so can we stop saying that any decision an airline makes is because of compensation for 787s. Delivery slots were more than certainly an issue for the Airbii among others.

The Lev

You must be one of the few here. Care to expand on that?

...and price.

PLeblond

I'm not a fan of the Airbus-es. I'm not saying they are bad airplanes, I just prefer the Boeing. I don't like the noises the Airbus makes, PTU barking, whining of cargo doors closing. They have a strange resonance to them, sort of a (guitar string) vibration to them in flight. I feel like that little buses fly a little nose up. Feels like I'm walking downhill when going to the rear lavs. As the interior goes, either one in interchangeable in my eyes. Airbus is slightly wider at the middle, 737s less curvy along the wall.

I don't see any elegance to in the design of the A319/320/321, especially the 319; looks kind of wonky. It feels like they didn't care what it looks like. You can say that about almost all the Airbus lines, save maybe the A330. The 380 is downright ugly.

In terms of performance (737-900 landing/take off parameters aside) the Boeing is top dog. It can do Hawaii from the Left coast, better take off climb, better hot and high performance. Its not a 757 by any means, though. THAT is a plane I love.

The web is full of Airbus versus Boeing forums, arguments, brawls, so I'm not expecting a consensus, but the fact remains that over 8000 of them have been delivered with over 5900 since Airbus launched the A320. Airbus has delivered over 5400. Current orders are 3600 to 3000 in Airbus advantage with about a 1 year head start on their programme. Considering the C-Series has less than 250 orders one cannot say with any merit that one is vastly superior to the other one. They are both excellent products, but if, for example, I am booking United and have a choice between 2 itineraries of somewhat equivalent time/price, I'll take the 737 option over an Airbus for sure.


As for price, I guess only Boeing, Airbus and AC knows. I believe the people upstairs know how to count and analyzed each offering on hundreds of different parameters, including acquisition cost. Despite the outcries from people here, I do not believe people working at AC are idiots. Conspiracy theories will always exist, but the truth is usually much more logical.

The Lev

Agree.

HometoYYZ

Been trying to look this up, but haven't seen anything... are the windows any larger or positioned higher on the MAX vs. the 737 NextGens? Flying WestJet or UA 738/739, I really notice the low position of the window vs. the Airbus narrowbodies. Or the Embraers. Or really, pretty much any plane larger than a CRJ.

If they remain the same on the MAX, I'll really miss the A320-family windows. And the extra width, of course.

The Lev

They will be the same as recent interiors of the NG.

Stranger

The 737 are cheap. End of the story.

PLeblond

Indeed, I have not seen anything on the actual window size, either way. Since neither the Neo nor the Max have any major structural fuselage changes I would assume they haven't changed the window size. That would be an very, very, very expensive change and would probably not be cost effective without going to a blank sheet design or composite fuselage.

I don't believe the windows are any bigger between the two, but as you mentioned the angle at which you look out changes a great deal. Also the inner wall thickness, like on the second deck of the A380. Its like looking out a tube.

Have you had a chance to fly one of the new "Sky" interiors? They have redesigned the wall around the window to appear larger. Not sure it changes anything. The didn't 'look' bigger to me.

The extra width is also a strange issue for me, as the actual seat width between most 737/320 is about ½ inch. I haven't noticed, but maybe I'm too svelte (kidding). In window seats on a 737 the wall curves in more cramping the feet, I can understand someone who likes the window seat might feel a difference, but the rest of the cabin is almost imperceivable. The vaunted 7" width difference is outside. On the inside, at the widest point the difference is 5.7" and 2.8" at eye level.

http://www.boeing.com/randy/images/7...0_width_ip.jpg

PLeblond

That's funny. I would have expected a more insightful comment from you. Should I start lower my expectations?

Stranger

Probably.

But seriously, price must have beren a major consideration. No matter how you look at this, the 320 series remains a design that is what, almost 20 years newer than the 737, which dates from the mid-late sixties. With a wider cabin.

And delivery slots must have been an issue too. Precisely because most airlines prefer the 320. Why?

PLeblond

Not sure I agree with you about "most airlines prefer the A320" For every airline that operates mostly little busses there are equal and opposite airlines operating 737s.

I will happily agree that both are excellent products and if you prefer the little buses, I can't say you are wrong.

And here I was hoping this didn't turn into an Airbus/Boeing discussion.

moorw003

I prefer the 737's from a pressure/jet lag point of view. I prefer the 320's from a comfort perspective in economy.

AC's decision probably boils down to commonality, in a little over 5 years time, the main fleet will be just 777, 787 and 737. Everything else will probably be run by Rouge, or one of the myriad of Air Canada Express monikers. I think this makes sense financially.

CloudsBelow

Is there anything around here fleet related that some posters won't link to late delivery 787s?
AFAIK, AC got a great price on their 787s and were free to walk away from the deal once delays were announced.
Agreed.
I think a solid theory is AC were leaning Airbus. They likely had an OK deal but had limited bargaining power as 320s were flying off the shelves.
A week before narrow body deal signed, "somehow" word leaked to FlightGlobal that AC were going Airbus. Boeing, reeling from losing many deals to Airbus and eager to flip a highly visible Airbus narrow-bogy carrier, swoops in with a deal too-good-to-pass and Air Canada makes the deal best for their bottom line
This deal had zero to do with 787 delays, AFAIK