mapleg

Interesting story--and that flight from SIN-IST is overnight, is it not? (which really makes the downgrade to Y all the more intolerable).

Reading some trip reports I have found more than the normal number of concerns re customer service from TK...hard product seems fine, but....

While playing around with our next award tickets, I was looking (like many do) at TK to transit through IST en route to Hong Kong. Glad I ended up picking LX and TG.

Clipper801

Many airlines consider reward ticket holders to be amongst the lowest priority and most undesirable, including AC. If you hold an Aeroplan reward ticket, paid in J points but confirmed in Y and hoping for an airport standby to J, you're amongst the lowest priority to get any vacant seat when the flight closes.

Sorry to hear about your experience.

global happy traveller

Overselling on a plane (regardless of class) is not totally about greed (some elements of greed like revenue maximization but not all). It can also be perceived as maximizing the utility of a finite resource.

Rather its because people's travel plans change and airlines needing a contingency plan to fill those seats up to maintain revenue vs operating costs. Another option is to make everyone pay 5-10-20% more in fares to offset the potential empty seats.

When a person change their travel plans (particularly last minute), it makes the airlines a lot harder to fill those seats up. And if its a date change where the initial seat cannot be resold and occupied by someone else, it means the passenger has costed the airline two seats for the price of one.

Unfortunately determining the no show factor is not an exact science. You can use best judgement based on historical data & trends but it does not guarantee how people & market will act & respond in the future.

When there are seats oversold, people are adjusted by the airline in a procedural sequence that is determined by individual airlines. Just because AC says they do not oversell J does not mean other airlines dont. Reward tickets are typically considered lowest because in the minds of the airlines they are bought at a low cost or wholesale rate (ie. Aeroplan did not pay TK $5000 like a revenue passenger would).

I agree with others, that this is a one-sided story and some of the interaction(s) used might have contributed to the issue, hence the lack of helpfulness from staff. I go through SIN a lot, they can be very helpful (but by the book) if you are nice, calm and respectful. However, they can be very nasty & turnoff if you choose to be rude. Then again, that rule applies everywhere including Canada/US.

In my experience over a complaint with LH, their customer service staff asked Aeroplan to give me 5000 miles. It is listed in my account as "AC COMPENSATION" however initiated by Lufthansa.

Markam

I am glad that in your case everything was sorted with a call to Aeroplan, and well, I have also flown many many times and I never had anyone in any position want to hit me, until this time. I think that we agree that is not something one would expected to encounter even in a lifetime of flying, don't we?

I get upset as anyone does, especially when treated rudely, but I can tell you that even when upset I do not give up on good behaviour, I believe that one can be assertive without being bad mannered. In Jakarta I myself asked for the presence of airport security, as although useless the supervisor there was 100% non-violent, but I thought she was not doing things by the book (as it turns out she wasn't) so I wanted to have an impartial witness on site. I have no idea why the Singapore supervisor called a security guard, or whether he was there to begin with, all I know is that he was there, and I didn't find that offensive at all. Actually, as things turned out later, I am glad that he was there, because he prevented further escalation of the events. I was already getting into a lot of detail in my original post, so I didn't mention this because it is kind of obvious after someone attempts to hit another person, but the security guard offered me to file an official claim with Singapore police, which I turned down. In any case, if the Singapore supervisor does not want to be called incompetent, she should not be so, in the first place. Also, I do not think that physical abuse is justified, even because of verbal abuse, which again, was not the case. I was not been kind to her, but nor was I being at all abusive. Again, if she does not want to be called incompetent, perhaps she should do things differently, or work for another airline altogether.

About the business class meals or amenities on economy class, I already mentioned that I understand the logistical difficulties involved, and that the only reason I expected it was because the supervisor told me to expect it. That is why I didn't make a fuss out of it, but I find it ridiculous to be told to expect things one way and then have them the other, are we children, or what? If she wanted to appease me, bad strategy, because I would find out it was not true with 100% probability, she was just passing the problem along to the purser. Also, she offered that at the very end when we had already given up on her, no need to appease us, we were just waiting to board and she came back and told us that, and the crew would "know about us". I am serious when I say that she most likely had some kind of mental problem. About the purser, after she explained she could not offer us the full business class meal service in economy she herself offered to send dessert, and that is the only reason why we expected it... great management of expectations, very much in line with the quality of the rest of the service we got.

I know it is a really weird experience, and it is good to be skeptical as you are, but the story is unfortunately true. Again, perhaps it is really bad luck, but you understand that I will not take my chances again with them, don't you?

Markam

For the record, our tickets had been issued, we had receipts with us, and even although on Turkish Airlines reservation system it said reconfirmation was not necessary, we reconfirmed both when booking our seats two months in advanced, and about one month before the flight, before leaving for our honeymoon. We did not reconfirm one day in advance, but again, it was not necessary according to the airline (that said, given the circumstances I do advice anyone travelling on TK to reconfirm irrespective of what the airline says).

I hope that acysb87 has a smooth experience with Turkish, but believe me, although the story itself is indeed very peculiar once things started to go wrong, to begin with we did everything very much by the book.

Markam

Thanks for sharing your experience, I am glad that you didn't experience any problems.

global happy traveller

Do not think we dont believe u..............

I mean many of us have experienced something weird with Aeroplan redemption before.....

Like Mrs GHT was noted on the manifest as an airline employee (hence always get served last) or I was flagged at FRA on SQ because my ticket was not valid (but my previous segments on SQ were fine).

Interaction wise it will always be multi-sided, we'll never know the truth.

Markam

Yes, 12+ hours overnight, and although as already mentioned the hard product in business is indeed quite good in Turkish's A333, the pitch in economy was very narrow, and the seat not very comfortable (concedely, perhaps it was that we were reseated to the last row of economy, so that the pitch was narrower than usual, and the seat reclined less than usual, that I don't know).

I have never flown TG, but I fly with LX often and in my experience they are definitely a solid choice.

Markam

Well, our tickets were confirmed in business, it was not an upgrade, and in any case Aeroplan had paid Turkish to get us on business class, etc., and there was no change of equipment or any irregular operations, so this was a case of plane overbooking and even them admitted so. That they overbook business class with confirmed passengers to pocket the money in detriment of reward ticket passengers is bad, but that they tell you at check-in, that they do not offer any alternatives, that they do not inform on compensation, that they give you wrong information, or that they just want to pass the problem along to the next employee that you encounter, that they are rude, that they are even violent, that they take forever to answer your complaint, and that when they do they refer you to your own frequent flyer program for a minuscule amount of miles in compensation... well, all that goes beyond my understanding. If we had been downgraded, but they had told us in advance, offered us rerouting or refund options, told us what would be the compensation, be nice to us, respond in a timely manner, etc., we would not be talking about this here now.

In any case, thank you for your sympathy.

Markam

Thank you for your note. I understand the mechanics of overbooking, although I do not think it is justified, since although it maximized the resources on the part of the airline, they create a lot of disturbance on the side of the passengers, and airlines sell a lot of non-refundable tickets, and anyway charge a change fee which is supposed to cover the cost of changes on their side. Anyway, that is another story for another day.

In this particular case, we were confirmed in business class, we had called to get seats assigned, and we arrived at the airport more than a couple of hours in advance, so I would have never guess that we would be overbooked. Also, according to Turkish, we were downgraded because of last minute paying passengers. In any case, if it had been just the overbooking, so be it, but we were not informed of any alternatives to reroute or reschedule, not offered the option to refund, we were not told what would the compensation if we accepted the downgrade, we were treated rudely, at one instance even almost violently, we had to wait forever to get an answer to our complaint, and then the compensation was minimal, not even amounting to replacement cost. I am sure it was quite a good deal for Turkish Airlines, but we, as passengers, felt mistreated and cheated, and I think that rightfully so.

About the one-side story, as I said before, it is good to be skeptical, but believe me, this story is unfortunately true. I was very assertive with the Singapore supervisor, but correct at all times, and I do not think that being called "incompetent" when you are being so (from the passenger point of view) is justification to try to assault someone (I do not believe that any words justify and assault, for that matter). It has nothing to do with this story, but I have been to Singapore many times (I even speak Malay), and I have never had a problem with anyone there, be at airports, hotels, etc., which made the experience with the Turkish supervisor there all the more surprising.

mapleg

Wow, kicked out of J and worst seat they could give you in Y. You almost wonder if they did it for spite

Markam

I know, I know, and in any case, it is good to be skeptical, and I am the first one to acknowledge that the story is very bizarre, it is just because I was there that I know for sure that it is unfortunately true. What I meant in one of my first replies is that concededly perhaps there are some circumstances about, say, the private life of the supervisor, which I don't know and what may have made her be out of her mind that evening. However, it would take a lot of "bad days" to justify all the instances of rudeness that we found, not to mention not following the standard procedures in case of overbooking (giving options, informing about compensation, etc.). It may be bad luck, but it was the only example of TK quality that I had, and being so appalling I do not think anyone will blame me for not taking my chances again with them, and for advising not to book with them if other options are available.

Markam

Good deal, wasn't it?

jerryhung

Travelling YYZ-IST, then IST-NRT in a week, having fingers crossed then with this story (which you wouldn't worry with SQ, TG, NH, or even UA in general)

yyzprincess

M, you may also want to write to VP Commercial @ Star Alliance in Frankfurt. I met him @ one of the Star Alliance functions couple of years ago. He gave me his card, I try to find it.