May 30, 2013, 9:55 pm
Last edit by: jerryhung
New List of Mini-RTW 2.0 version after Oct 29th, 2014 "enhancement" (i.e. less MPM)
FAQ: List of valid and booked mini-RTW itineraries version 2.0 (post-"enhancement"
INTRO
This wiki is taken from the excellent overview in the first post of this thread by FrequentFlyer9000 and is meant as a guide to the Aeroplan "Mini-RTW" for the uninformed newbie flyer. This is a no judgment zone and newbies are welcome. In this thread, the usage of scary acronyms and complicated FlyerTalk insider-speak will be minimized.
Also, this wiki is a work in progress so please provide feedback or make wiki edits if you think something warrants it.
INFO & COMMON QUESTIONS
What is the "Mini-RTW"?
The Mini-RTW is a name given to a type of reward booking using Air Canada's Aeroplan miles. It is actually not a "round-the-world" ticket at all - it is a regular award redemption. Just as you would use 75K frequent flyer miles to go to Japan on another airline, you can use 75K to do so using Aeroplan miles. The difference is that Aeroplan allows you to "stopover" in multiple cities at no extra mileage cost, making it very attractive compared to other reward travel. It should be noted that this isn't really that much better than some other airlines. For example, Delta offers one stopover + open jaw, which is only one stopover worse than Aeroplan's deal. But many of the airlines only offer one stopover and no open jaw. So there is definitely value here.
In addition to your final destination (in which you can stay for days/weeks/months), you are allowed:
•Two stopovers in other cities (stay for days/weeks/months). You are allowed to trade one of these stopovers for an open jaw (where you land in one city, but take the next flight out of another city)
•10 segments (layovers during which you spend less than 24 hours in a given city) <-- this limit may be gone as of 2014/2015
So, disregarding the additional 10 segments, an award trip for Japan could actually look like this:
NYC > Tokyo (destination - one week) > Paris (stopover - one week) > London (stopover - one week) > NYC
You basically get three times the world exploration for the price of one. If you add on the extra layovers allowed, you can turn it into:
NYC > Los Angeles (one day) > Hawaii (one day) > Tokyo (one week) > Seoul (one day) > Hong Kong (one day) > Paris (one week) > Munich (one day) > London (one week) > Washington DC (one day) > NYC
Of course, you don't have to do the above. Spending so much time in airports can be exhausting. But the option is there for you if you want it.
How many miles is this going to cost me?
See the Award Travel chart here.
From North America to "Asia 1" countries: (effective Jan 1, 2014)
•75K in Economy
•150K in Business
•210K in First
From North America to "Europe 1" countries:
•60K in Economy
•90K in Business
•125K in First
...and so on. Check the link for other combinations. Assuming you are stopping in three cities, the city in the most "expensive" redemption zone is the zone you will have to pay for. So if you are visiting two Asia1 zone cities and one Middle East city, you will pay 80K miles rather than 75K miles since that is what the Middle East trip costs (numbers assume Economy class travel).
Which miles do I need to use? Can I use miles from other Star Alliance airlines?
You need to use Aeroplan miles. You cannot use miles from other Star Alliance members, such as United, to book this mini-RTW. However, you can book flights for the mini-RTW on any airline that is in the alliance and has the desired award seating available. You technically do not have to fly any segments on Air Canada at all.
So, what's the catch? What are the restrictions?
There is no catch. However, there are some restrictions on your itinerary. This is where things get a bit more complicated.
Want to find the new MPM after 10/29/2014?
Aeroplan City Pair mileage (new pseudo-MPM) - FlyerTalk Forums
This is no longer valid after 10/29/2014
2) If you do elect to use an open jaw instead of one of your stopovers, you must schedule the open jaw so that it is in the same "IATA zone" as either the origin or the destination city. So if you are going from NY to Japan to Europe and back to NY, the open jaw cannot be scheduled in Europe, since it is neither the origin zone or the destination zone. The open jaw also cannot be a larger distance than any two legs you are actually flying. In case you are wondering, IATA zones are as follows:
IATA 1 - The Americas (incl. Caribbean, Hawaii)
IATA 2 - Europe as far as the Ural Mountain range, Middle East & Africa
IATA 3 - Oceania, SE Asia, Far East, Sub-Continent.
Remember that if you use your open jaw at the turnaround/destination point, you will only have one stopover to use left. So you would be able to do NYC > Singapore (destination, open jaw) // Tokyo (stop) > NYC. This has one destination, one open jaw (at turnaround point), and one stopover. However, you would not be able to do this: NYC > Madrid (stop) > Singapore (destination, open jaw) // Tokyo (stop) > NYC. Because your 2 stops + 1 open jaw would be more than the two allowed.
3) You cannot land in the same city twice in any one direction. This means that on my way from NY to, let's say, Cairo, I cannot do New York > London > Paris > London > Cairo on the way there, since I would be stopping in London twice in one direction. However, I can stop in London on the way to Cairo and then again on the way back from Cairo.
4) The actual trip needs to be "bookable". It needs to follow certain rules. I won't get into too many details, but anything completely nonsensical in terms of routing is generally not going to fly. But most routes will not fall into this category. Just something to keep in mind.
Do I have to go in the same direction for every leg of the flight?
No. As an example, you can cross the Atlantic twice or cross both the Atlantic and the Pacific once (more like a real RTW trip).
How do I book this?
Assuming you have already planned out your entire itinerary to the dot and have made sure your trip is in accordance with the above restrictions, call Aeroplan and speak with a representative. Alternatively, you can try to book online for free. However, this is not always possible with more complicated routings.
What will this cost me in real cash? How can I minimize fees?
It depends on the region you travel to and which airline you fly on. In general, the more Air Canada segments you fly the more fees/taxes you will pay. Aeroplan does not collect surcharges on non-Air Canada-operated flights. So flying Air Canada internationally will cost you extra. If you use a lot of Air Canada flights in your mini-RTW, your fees could be anywhere from $150 to $400, even sometimes creeping up above $600. Lesson is to avoid AC "metal" (airplanes) if possible.
Every trip will have a $30 cost per person for booking on the phone, regardless of the itinerary.
What are the change fees if I want to change a leg or multiple legs of the trip later?
$90 for changes after original booking. If there is an involuntary change because of flight schedules changing, there is no fee charged. Note that when you make a change, the taxes/fees associated with fuel, etc. may change. They may decrease or increase depending on the previous flight and the new flight. This is independent of the $90 rebooking fee. The $90 is flat regardless of how many of the segments you change. It is not $90 per changed segment.
How do I plan this trip out? Even finding a simple award ticket can be difficult online, let alone one with 10 segments!
Good question. It is recommended that you use either the All-Nippon Airways (ANA) website (guide on how here), the KVS tool (costs money) or ExpertFlyer (costs money), or http://FliSea.com. I personally like to use KVS, but it is not newbie-friendly. It is $20 for 2 months for the "diamond" level service, and $75 for a year. Small price to pay for saving a lot of time, if you can handle the learning curve. ANA is a good free method of finding segments and many people have had plenty of success with it; FliSea is a metasearch tool that uses all of the sites above.
The trick is to do this one segment at a time. So first find NYC > LONDON for the date you want and make sure that the award class you are looking for is available (e.g. Economy low fare). Then do the next leg: LONDON > ROME. Repeat for every segment. Write down the details of each flight, calculate the mileage using the www.gcmap.com resource, and call up Aeroplan to book.
One of our Flyertalk members has built a database with all the Mini-RTW routes that have been flown in the various threads in one simple place: http://www.turnleftat.com/mini-rtw-list/
FAQ: List of valid and booked mini-RTW itineraries version 2.0 (post-"enhancement"
INTRO
This wiki is taken from the excellent overview in the first post of this thread by FrequentFlyer9000 and is meant as a guide to the Aeroplan "Mini-RTW" for the uninformed newbie flyer. This is a no judgment zone and newbies are welcome. In this thread, the usage of scary acronyms and complicated FlyerTalk insider-speak will be minimized.
Also, this wiki is a work in progress so please provide feedback or make wiki edits if you think something warrants it.
INFO & COMMON QUESTIONS
What is the "Mini-RTW"?
The Mini-RTW is a name given to a type of reward booking using Air Canada's Aeroplan miles. It is actually not a "round-the-world" ticket at all - it is a regular award redemption. Just as you would use 75K frequent flyer miles to go to Japan on another airline, you can use 75K to do so using Aeroplan miles. The difference is that Aeroplan allows you to "stopover" in multiple cities at no extra mileage cost, making it very attractive compared to other reward travel. It should be noted that this isn't really that much better than some other airlines. For example, Delta offers one stopover + open jaw, which is only one stopover worse than Aeroplan's deal. But many of the airlines only offer one stopover and no open jaw. So there is definitely value here.
In addition to your final destination (in which you can stay for days/weeks/months), you are allowed:
•Two stopovers in other cities (stay for days/weeks/months). You are allowed to trade one of these stopovers for an open jaw (where you land in one city, but take the next flight out of another city)
•10 segments (layovers during which you spend less than 24 hours in a given city) <-- this limit may be gone as of 2014/2015
So, disregarding the additional 10 segments, an award trip for Japan could actually look like this:
NYC > Tokyo (destination - one week) > Paris (stopover - one week) > London (stopover - one week) > NYC
You basically get three times the world exploration for the price of one. If you add on the extra layovers allowed, you can turn it into:
NYC > Los Angeles (one day) > Hawaii (one day) > Tokyo (one week) > Seoul (one day) > Hong Kong (one day) > Paris (one week) > Munich (one day) > London (one week) > Washington DC (one day) > NYC
Of course, you don't have to do the above. Spending so much time in airports can be exhausting. But the option is there for you if you want it.
How many miles is this going to cost me?
See the Award Travel chart here.
From North America to "Asia 1" countries: (effective Jan 1, 2014)
•75K in Economy
•150K in Business
•210K in First
From North America to "Europe 1" countries:
•60K in Economy
•90K in Business
•125K in First
...and so on. Check the link for other combinations. Assuming you are stopping in three cities, the city in the most "expensive" redemption zone is the zone you will have to pay for. So if you are visiting two Asia1 zone cities and one Middle East city, you will pay 80K miles rather than 75K miles since that is what the Middle East trip costs (numbers assume Economy class travel).
Which miles do I need to use? Can I use miles from other Star Alliance airlines?
You need to use Aeroplan miles. You cannot use miles from other Star Alliance members, such as United, to book this mini-RTW. However, you can book flights for the mini-RTW on any airline that is in the alliance and has the desired award seating available. You technically do not have to fly any segments on Air Canada at all.
So, what's the catch? What are the restrictions?
There is no catch. However, there are some restrictions on your itinerary. This is where things get a bit more complicated.
Want to find the new MPM after 10/29/2014?
Aeroplan City Pair mileage (new pseudo-MPM) - FlyerTalk Forums
This is no longer valid after 10/29/2014
1) Your itinerary must be within 5% of the total "Maximum Permitted Mileage" (MPM) for the route from the origin to the destination. Even though you are stopping in three cities by using your two stopovers and a final destination, you can define the destination as the stop city furthest away from the origin. Although certain flyers have gotten away with telling an inattentive phone rep that their final destination / "turnaround city" is one of their layover cities to increase their MPM, this does not always work. Sticking with one of your three stop cities is a safe bet.
MPM exist so that you cannot repeatedly fly around the world 10 times on your 10 segments. There is a limit to how many miles you can fly on the reward ticket. MPM guidelines can be found by using the KVS tool or by using Expert Flyer. MPM is calculated between your origin and your destination, one-way. The trips to and from your destination are calculated separately. You are allowed to overshoot this number by 5% ("MPM5"). If you can find a bookable itinerary online that has a mileage longer than the published MPM, this is a "published routing" and can be used even if it exceeds the MPM5. In KVS, navigate to the "Reference" tab, select "MPM" from the dropdown menu, and enter your city pair. MPM information is available under the Travel Information section of ExpertFlyer. It is available to all subscribers, Basic or Premium, and there is a 5-day free trial to ExpertFlyer.com that can be used.
To see if your itinerary fits your MPM limit, you can use the site here to see your total miles traveled: www.gcmap.com. Enter your airport codes separated by dashes to see the itinerary and get the total mileage (e.g. NYC - LHR - NYC). Example here.
TO READ MORE ABOUT MPM: Read this (short) document
MPM exist so that you cannot repeatedly fly around the world 10 times on your 10 segments. There is a limit to how many miles you can fly on the reward ticket. MPM guidelines can be found by using the KVS tool or by using Expert Flyer. MPM is calculated between your origin and your destination, one-way. The trips to and from your destination are calculated separately. You are allowed to overshoot this number by 5% ("MPM5"). If you can find a bookable itinerary online that has a mileage longer than the published MPM, this is a "published routing" and can be used even if it exceeds the MPM5. In KVS, navigate to the "Reference" tab, select "MPM" from the dropdown menu, and enter your city pair. MPM information is available under the Travel Information section of ExpertFlyer. It is available to all subscribers, Basic or Premium, and there is a 5-day free trial to ExpertFlyer.com that can be used.
To see if your itinerary fits your MPM limit, you can use the site here to see your total miles traveled: www.gcmap.com. Enter your airport codes separated by dashes to see the itinerary and get the total mileage (e.g. NYC - LHR - NYC). Example here.
TO READ MORE ABOUT MPM: Read this (short) document
IATA 1 - The Americas (incl. Caribbean, Hawaii)
IATA 2 - Europe as far as the Ural Mountain range, Middle East & Africa
IATA 3 - Oceania, SE Asia, Far East, Sub-Continent.
Remember that if you use your open jaw at the turnaround/destination point, you will only have one stopover to use left. So you would be able to do NYC > Singapore (destination, open jaw) // Tokyo (stop) > NYC. This has one destination, one open jaw (at turnaround point), and one stopover. However, you would not be able to do this: NYC > Madrid (stop) > Singapore (destination, open jaw) // Tokyo (stop) > NYC. Because your 2 stops + 1 open jaw would be more than the two allowed.
3) You cannot land in the same city twice in any one direction. This means that on my way from NY to, let's say, Cairo, I cannot do New York > London > Paris > London > Cairo on the way there, since I would be stopping in London twice in one direction. However, I can stop in London on the way to Cairo and then again on the way back from Cairo.
4) The actual trip needs to be "bookable". It needs to follow certain rules. I won't get into too many details, but anything completely nonsensical in terms of routing is generally not going to fly. But most routes will not fall into this category. Just something to keep in mind.
Do I have to go in the same direction for every leg of the flight?
No. As an example, you can cross the Atlantic twice or cross both the Atlantic and the Pacific once (more like a real RTW trip).
How do I book this?
Assuming you have already planned out your entire itinerary to the dot and have made sure your trip is in accordance with the above restrictions, call Aeroplan and speak with a representative. Alternatively, you can try to book online for free. However, this is not always possible with more complicated routings.
What will this cost me in real cash? How can I minimize fees?
It depends on the region you travel to and which airline you fly on. In general, the more Air Canada segments you fly the more fees/taxes you will pay. Aeroplan does not collect surcharges on non-Air Canada-operated flights. So flying Air Canada internationally will cost you extra. If you use a lot of Air Canada flights in your mini-RTW, your fees could be anywhere from $150 to $400, even sometimes creeping up above $600. Lesson is to avoid AC "metal" (airplanes) if possible.
Every trip will have a $30 cost per person for booking on the phone, regardless of the itinerary.
What are the change fees if I want to change a leg or multiple legs of the trip later?
$90 for changes after original booking. If there is an involuntary change because of flight schedules changing, there is no fee charged. Note that when you make a change, the taxes/fees associated with fuel, etc. may change. They may decrease or increase depending on the previous flight and the new flight. This is independent of the $90 rebooking fee. The $90 is flat regardless of how many of the segments you change. It is not $90 per changed segment.
How do I plan this trip out? Even finding a simple award ticket can be difficult online, let alone one with 10 segments!
Good question. It is recommended that you use either the All-Nippon Airways (ANA) website (guide on how here), the KVS tool (costs money) or ExpertFlyer (costs money), or http://FliSea.com. I personally like to use KVS, but it is not newbie-friendly. It is $20 for 2 months for the "diamond" level service, and $75 for a year. Small price to pay for saving a lot of time, if you can handle the learning curve. ANA is a good free method of finding segments and many people have had plenty of success with it; FliSea is a metasearch tool that uses all of the sites above.
The trick is to do this one segment at a time. So first find NYC > LONDON for the date you want and make sure that the award class you are looking for is available (e.g. Economy low fare). Then do the next leg: LONDON > ROME. Repeat for every segment. Write down the details of each flight, calculate the mileage using the www.gcmap.com resource, and call up Aeroplan to book.
One of our Flyertalk members has built a database with all the Mini-RTW routes that have been flown in the various threads in one simple place: http://www.turnleftat.com/mini-rtw-list/
FAQ: The Complete Newbie Guide/FAQ to the Air Canada Aeroplan Mini-RTW
May 12, 2017, 1:06 pm
#1501
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,784
That should work fine, quite normal Europe routes
You'll most likely get TK options to ATH/FCO
obviously try to choose SN/UA to minimize fees
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=yyz-ist...u-lhr,+lhr-yyz
May 12, 2017, 5:08 pm
#1502
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the air
Programs: Occasional RTW club
Posts: 6,924
What? No no no no of course that's not correct.
May 12, 2017, 7:08 pm
#1503
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: YUL
Posts: 970
I assumed so, since I've been told the same thing by two different agents on two different trips (I know two are not enough but I'm a bit lazy). And those two times, I did not have any choice but to politely agree. Ok, a third time I asked for a supervisor who said the first agent was right. So is there a real and consistent rule ?
May 13, 2017, 8:37 am
#1504
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7
Newbie here looking to book rewards flights without paying exorbitant taxes/fees. Not necessarily looking for mini rtw but looking for experts that might be able to assist with routing out of YHZ. 2 weeks vacation in July and looking for somewhere to vacation with my Wife.
Dates available to travel:
July 2 - 16
2 people
Departing from YHZ (or YQM)
Looking for somewhere tropical/exotic with nice beaches
Have 150,000+ miles available but would prefer not to use them all
Was considering Hawaii, Costa Rica or somewhere like that. Have previously used miles for flights to Florida, Las Vegas etc... but realize that's not my best bang for the buck.
Realize that routing through US and flying non Air Canada is my best bet, just trying to find available flights is the tricky part. Trying to read through all the threads on here but lots of info. What's the main advantage of searching ANA as opposed to Aeroplan site? Tried it but not sure what's better?
Dates available to travel:
July 2 - 16
2 people
Departing from YHZ (or YQM)
Looking for somewhere tropical/exotic with nice beaches
Have 150,000+ miles available but would prefer not to use them all
Was considering Hawaii, Costa Rica or somewhere like that. Have previously used miles for flights to Florida, Las Vegas etc... but realize that's not my best bang for the buck.
Realize that routing through US and flying non Air Canada is my best bet, just trying to find available flights is the tricky part. Trying to read through all the threads on here but lots of info. What's the main advantage of searching ANA as opposed to Aeroplan site? Tried it but not sure what's better?
Last edited by djpositivek; May 13, 2017 at 8:46 am
May 13, 2017, 11:18 am
#1505
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: YHZ
Posts: 281
I am another newbie looking to book a mini RTW from YHZ. I've started the research, and wonder if anyone could help me with an itinerary I think I've got started with.
YHZ-EWR (on UA) hoping to combine this with the following flight)
EWR-LHR (Air India - need to spend about a week in the UK) STOP?
LHR-KHE (Kherson, Ukraine, for about a week - Turkish flies there from IST, but KHE won't come up on the AP site)
KHE-BUS (Batumi, Georgia, through IST, also TK)
BUS-IST-YHZ, through EWR, combination of TK, UA/LH/AC
Assuming this is even possible, which I don't know yet, which should be my destination? Kherson or Batumi?
I also want to factor in an A3 gold card run, when I'm in the IST area. Will pay for that with money.
I have to be in the UK for business June 6-9, and want to plan the rest of the trip for after that.
Does any of this make any sense? And, if I'm asking for too much, please tell me. But any advice on how to make this work would be greatly appreciated.
YHZ-EWR (on UA) hoping to combine this with the following flight)
EWR-LHR (Air India - need to spend about a week in the UK) STOP?
LHR-KHE (Kherson, Ukraine, for about a week - Turkish flies there from IST, but KHE won't come up on the AP site)
KHE-BUS (Batumi, Georgia, through IST, also TK)
BUS-IST-YHZ, through EWR, combination of TK, UA/LH/AC
Assuming this is even possible, which I don't know yet, which should be my destination? Kherson or Batumi?
I also want to factor in an A3 gold card run, when I'm in the IST area. Will pay for that with money.
I have to be in the UK for business June 6-9, and want to plan the rest of the trip for after that.
Does any of this make any sense? And, if I'm asking for too much, please tell me. But any advice on how to make this work would be greatly appreciated.
May 13, 2017, 9:08 pm
#1506
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 12
Hi all,
I'm planning for a mini-RTW redemption in J class from YYZ to Australia with a mandatory stop in HKG on the way there, and was wondering if you guys know of any good hubs to stop on the way there and back that will be relatively easy to find J legs.
It seems impossible to get a J class direct YYZ to HKG, and it looks like the best options are Taipei with EVA air or Seoul with Asiana. There seems to be a handful of Tokyo with AC but limited.
On the way down to Australia, it appears Singapore might be my best bet with Singapore Airlines.
I'm planning to travel in February 2018.
Thanks!
I'm planning for a mini-RTW redemption in J class from YYZ to Australia with a mandatory stop in HKG on the way there, and was wondering if you guys know of any good hubs to stop on the way there and back that will be relatively easy to find J legs.
It seems impossible to get a J class direct YYZ to HKG, and it looks like the best options are Taipei with EVA air or Seoul with Asiana. There seems to be a handful of Tokyo with AC but limited.
On the way down to Australia, it appears Singapore might be my best bet with Singapore Airlines.
I'm planning to travel in February 2018.
Thanks!
May 14, 2017, 1:08 pm
#1507
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 1
Mini rtw europe
Hi everyone
I am trying to book a Mini RTW.. theres so many blogs out there but im not much of a traveller so i dont really understand
I ASSUME that within one round trip you are allowed one stop over each way
so if we leave from LONDON UK and are going to DUBAI then the below is possible
LONDON ---> BERLIN ---> DUBAI ----> ATHENS ---->LONDON
I also assume that within one round trip you are allowed 10 stop overs so can we do the below
LONDON ---> BRUSSELS--->PARIS--->AMSTERDAM ----> BERLIN (STOPOVER) ---> KRAKOW ---> STOCKHOLM--->DUBAI ---->ROME---> ATHENS(STOP OVER) -->LONDON
SO IS THAT POSSIBLE???
I am trying to book a Mini RTW.. theres so many blogs out there but im not much of a traveller so i dont really understand
I ASSUME that within one round trip you are allowed one stop over each way
so if we leave from LONDON UK and are going to DUBAI then the below is possible
LONDON ---> BERLIN ---> DUBAI ----> ATHENS ---->LONDON
I also assume that within one round trip you are allowed 10 stop overs so can we do the below
LONDON ---> BRUSSELS--->PARIS--->AMSTERDAM ----> BERLIN (STOPOVER) ---> KRAKOW ---> STOCKHOLM--->DUBAI ---->ROME---> ATHENS(STOP OVER) -->LONDON
SO IS THAT POSSIBLE???
May 14, 2017, 7:14 pm
#1508
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Kamloops, BC
Programs: Air Canada-Aeroplan, NEXUS, E50K, Marriott Bonvoy Gold Elite
Posts: 346
I am currently trying to book
JFK-icn-SYD STOP
SYD-BKK stop
BKK-ICN STOP-open JAW
HND-JFK
They are telling me I have to book the open jaw at the furthest destination which is garbage. Might there be another reason? Cuz I know you can do two stops same direction as I have booked that before. THanks!
EDIT:
I spoke with them regarding the terms and conditions "28.3. Intercontinental travel (travel between two continents): Two stopovers permitted in addition to the point of turnaround. One open jaw is permitted in lieu of one of the two stopovers."
I was told that the open jaw can only occur at the point of turnaround or the origin. I then asked the nice agent to let me speak with her supervisor who provided me his name and information. He was not the most professional in handling the situation as he stated it has been like this forever.
I brought my concerns up regarding the terminology stating that speaking and understanding English allows one to realize that "one open jaw is permitted in lieu of on of the two stopovers" can be interpreted as 1 stopover, 1 stopover w an open jaw, and 1 point of turnaround.
I was hoping someone here might know a bit more and be able to explain why either I am crazy or that this terminology in the terms and conditions is blatantly false and in my opinion cheating the customer out of a rightful booking.
JFK-icn-SYD STOP
SYD-BKK stop
BKK-ICN STOP-open JAW
HND-JFK
They are telling me I have to book the open jaw at the furthest destination which is garbage. Might there be another reason? Cuz I know you can do two stops same direction as I have booked that before. THanks!
EDIT:
I spoke with them regarding the terms and conditions "28.3. Intercontinental travel (travel between two continents): Two stopovers permitted in addition to the point of turnaround. One open jaw is permitted in lieu of one of the two stopovers."
I was told that the open jaw can only occur at the point of turnaround or the origin. I then asked the nice agent to let me speak with her supervisor who provided me his name and information. He was not the most professional in handling the situation as he stated it has been like this forever.
I brought my concerns up regarding the terminology stating that speaking and understanding English allows one to realize that "one open jaw is permitted in lieu of on of the two stopovers" can be interpreted as 1 stopover, 1 stopover w an open jaw, and 1 point of turnaround.
I was hoping someone here might know a bit more and be able to explain why either I am crazy or that this terminology in the terms and conditions is blatantly false and in my opinion cheating the customer out of a rightful booking.
Last edited by canadianhockey91; May 14, 2017 at 7:46 pm
May 14, 2017, 9:33 pm
#1510
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 22
Posted this in the mini-rtw but might be better suited here:
Looking for some advice. Finally about to book my first Business class redemption flights for September but having a heck of a time finding a return route. It's not a mini-rtw but thought I ask here anyways. I have the flights onto Europe figured out but can't find anything on the way back. So far I have:
Sept.3 YYC-IAH Layover(E)
Sept.3 IAH-IST Destination(Y)
Sept.8 IST-CDG Stopover(Y)
I'm looking to come back to YYC anywhere between September 17-20. I just can't seem to find J class returning to US or Canada for those dates. I've tried several cities in Europe for coming back(don't really have a preference) to no luck. Hoping someone with expertise can suggest a way to get back home.
Thx
P.S. Also trying to avoid carriers with surcharges
Looking for some advice. Finally about to book my first Business class redemption flights for September but having a heck of a time finding a return route. It's not a mini-rtw but thought I ask here anyways. I have the flights onto Europe figured out but can't find anything on the way back. So far I have:
Sept.3 YYC-IAH Layover(E)
Sept.3 IAH-IST Destination(Y)
Sept.8 IST-CDG Stopover(Y)
I'm looking to come back to YYC anywhere between September 17-20. I just can't seem to find J class returning to US or Canada for those dates. I've tried several cities in Europe for coming back(don't really have a preference) to no luck. Hoping someone with expertise can suggest a way to get back home.
Thx
P.S. Also trying to avoid carriers with surcharges
May 14, 2017, 9:40 pm
#1511
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Kamloops, BC
Programs: Air Canada-Aeroplan, NEXUS, E50K, Marriott Bonvoy Gold Elite
Posts: 346
Ya that's what I was wondering cuz I have seen a lot get away with it...and also in their terms and conditions it does not state this. Hence my argument that it should be in their terms because the way it is phrased does not indicate this at all.
May 14, 2017, 9:56 pm
#1512
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: YYZ
Programs: Aeroplan, Alaska, Marriott
Posts: 435
it doesnt need to be in the terms because its not their definition of open jaw. its the industry standard.
May 14, 2017, 10:11 pm
#1513
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Kamloops, BC
Programs: Air Canada-Aeroplan, NEXUS, E50K, Marriott Bonvoy Gold Elite
Posts: 346
I get that it is semantics and that it may be industry standard but having that sentence there, to me, makes it seem as if you can have an open jaw with any of those stopovers. I'd argue that anyone who speaks/reads English would agree with that.
I do appreciate your explanation though, just frustrated a bit. I can re-arrange my segs and still do what I want but it's been quite a waste of time.
May 15, 2017, 12:51 pm
#1515
Join Date: Jun 2014
Programs: AC E50, NEXUS
Posts: 58
I know this is called a Newbie Guide but man it's still confusing.
I have 300,000 in miles and will be trying to book a single ticket in J and F to somewhere fun at Christmas - leaving and returning to Winnipeg. I'm getting confused about not being able to confirm business/first class until later, while some bookings you guys are posting are getting business class seats confirms.
Anyways will get to Tokyo and stop over somewhere like Taiwan, or go to South Africa, Istanbul with a stopover in Paris or New York.
I'm sure I'll be back with many questions. Thanks in advance.
I have 300,000 in miles and will be trying to book a single ticket in J and F to somewhere fun at Christmas - leaving and returning to Winnipeg. I'm getting confused about not being able to confirm business/first class until later, while some bookings you guys are posting are getting business class seats confirms.
Anyways will get to Tokyo and stop over somewhere like Taiwan, or go to South Africa, Istanbul with a stopover in Paris or New York.
I'm sure I'll be back with many questions. Thanks in advance.