Dec 12, 2015, 4:13 am
Last edit by: starflyergold
What we know:
On 9 December 2015 Accorhotels announced an agreement with the Qatar Investment Authority (QIA), Kingdom Holding Company (KHC) of Saudi Arabia and Oxford Properties, an Ontario Municipal Employees Retirement System (OMERS) company for the acquisition of FRHI Holdings Ltd (FRHI), parent of Fairmont, Raffles, and Swissôtel. Accorhotels will be paying $840 million in cash and by issuing 46.7 million new shares. As part of the transaction, QIA will have two seats on Accor’s board while KHC will take another.
FRHI?
FRHI is the holding company for the Fairmont, Raffles, and Swissôtel brands. FRHI is a management company and the portfolio is almost exclusively on long-term management contracts; i.e. this does not include the brick and mortar in most cases but long term leases of the hotels concerned. 155 hotels are included in the deal and 40 developments which equates to 56,000 rooms in total.
Fairmont
Fairmont Hotels & Resorts is a Canadian-based operator of hotels and resorts. Currently, Fairmont operates properties in 19 countries.
Canada: Banff, Calgary, Charlevoix, Edmonton, Jasper, Lake Louise, Mont Tremblant, Montebello, Montreal, Ottawa, Québec City, Toronto, Vancouver (4), Victoria, Whistler, Winnipeg
United States: Berkeley, Boston, Chicago, Dallas, Hawaii, Maui, New York, Newport Beach, Pittsburgh, San Diego, San Francisco (2), San Jose, Santa Monica, Scottsdale, Seattle, Sonoma, Telluride, Washington DC
Asia: Bali, Beijing, Jaipur, Jakarta, Kunshan, Manila, Nanjing, Shanghai, Singapore
Europe: Baku, Barcelona, Hamburg, Kiev, London, Monte Carlo, Montreux, St Andrews
Mexico, Caribbean and Bermuda: Barbados, Hamilton, Riviera Maya, Southampton
Middle East and Africa: Abu Dhabi, Ajman, Cairo (3), Dubai (2), Makkah, Masai Mara, Mount Kenya, Nairobi, Zimbali (2)
In Development: Amman (2015), Austin (2017), Chengdu (2015), Fujairah (2015), Istanbul (2016), Lagos (2016), Moscow (2016), Riyadh (2015), Sharm el Sheikh (2015), Soma Bay (2020), Suzhou (2018), Taiyuan (2016), Zhengzhou (2018).
Fairmont has its own Flyertalk forum. It's current loyalty programme is called President's Club. The programme also covers Raffles and Swissôtel though the latter also operates its own loyalty programme.
Raffles
Raffles was established in 1887 in Singapore and currently comprises 12 luxury hotels with 4 in development.
Asia: Beijing, Hainan, Jakarta, Manila, Phnom Penh, Siem Reap, Singapore,
Europe: Istanbul, Paris,
Middle East and Africa: Dubai, Makkah, Praslin,
In Development: Jeddah (2018), Sharm el-Sheikh (2019), Shenzhen (2019), Warsaw (2017)
Swissôtel
Swissôtel was founded in 1980 as a joint venture between Swissair and Nestlé and currently includes 37 properties in 17 countries.
Australia: Sydney
Asia: Beijing, Foshan, Kunshan, Shanghai, Kolkata, Osaka, Singapore (2), Bangkok (2), Phuket
Europe: Tallinn, Berlin, Bremen, Dresden, Düsseldorf-Neuss, Amsterdam, Moscow, Sochi, Basel, Geneva (2), Zurich, Ankara, Bodrum (2), Istanbul (2), Izmir
Latin America: Quito, Lima,
United States: Chicago
Middle East: Makkah
In Development: Dhaka (2017), Sofia (2018), Changsha (2016), Chengdu (2016), Hangzhou (2019), Jinan (2020), Guayaquil (2017), Cairo (2020), Sharm el Sheikh (2016), Bali (2017), Jeddah (2017), Dubai (2018).
Swissôtel operates its own loyalty programme called Swissôtel Circle. This and Swissôtel hotels are currently being discussed in the Other Hotel Chains forum.
What happens next?
On 26 April 2016 Accor announced that it has received antitrust clearance for the purchase in relevant jurisdictions. The next step with be an extraordinary shareholders meeting (to be held on the 12th July 2016) to approve the capital increase and proposed board composition.
The deal closed on 12 July 2016. Nothing from a loyalty perspective will change immediately and the respective programmes and hotels will continue to operate as before.
FRHI inventory was loaded onto the Accor system on 12 July 2016, however none of the hotels will earn any points or can be used to redeem them. At the shareholder meeting Accor seemed to indicate that it will take 18 months for the loyalty aspects to be sorted. However it was clear that Le Club will be the future loyalty programme for all hotels.
Loyalty Integration
As of 2 July 2018 the Fairmont President's Club will cease to exist (the same goes for the Swissotel Circle). Both programmes will be folded into Le Club Accorhotels.
What does this mean for Le Club members? You will be able to earn and redeem points, and receive status related perks at all former FRHI hotels. This includes: early/late check in, welcome drink, upgrade (subject to availability), welcome amenity, free wifi. Lounge access for Platinum members will apply to Swissotel (where available) but does not include the Fairmont Gold Service (unless of course booked, including with points). Any stays at former FRHI hotels from January will contribute to your "night count" but no points will be accrued until 2 July.
What does this mean to FPC members? Members will be transferred into Le Club in July. Platinum members will become Le Club Platinum members, Premier will be Silver, Club will be standard members. The "nights stayed" count will transfer to Le Club in July and contribute to status in Le Club. However points will only accrue from July. Suite certificates can be used up beyond July.
On 9 December 2015 Accorhotels announced an agreement with the Qatar Investment Authority (QIA), Kingdom Holding Company (KHC) of Saudi Arabia and Oxford Properties, an Ontario Municipal Employees Retirement System (OMERS) company for the acquisition of FRHI Holdings Ltd (FRHI), parent of Fairmont, Raffles, and Swissôtel. Accorhotels will be paying $840 million in cash and by issuing 46.7 million new shares. As part of the transaction, QIA will have two seats on Accor’s board while KHC will take another.
FRHI?
FRHI is the holding company for the Fairmont, Raffles, and Swissôtel brands. FRHI is a management company and the portfolio is almost exclusively on long-term management contracts; i.e. this does not include the brick and mortar in most cases but long term leases of the hotels concerned. 155 hotels are included in the deal and 40 developments which equates to 56,000 rooms in total.
Fairmont
Fairmont Hotels & Resorts is a Canadian-based operator of hotels and resorts. Currently, Fairmont operates properties in 19 countries.
Canada: Banff, Calgary, Charlevoix, Edmonton, Jasper, Lake Louise, Mont Tremblant, Montebello, Montreal, Ottawa, Québec City, Toronto, Vancouver (4), Victoria, Whistler, Winnipeg
United States: Berkeley, Boston, Chicago, Dallas, Hawaii, Maui, New York, Newport Beach, Pittsburgh, San Diego, San Francisco (2), San Jose, Santa Monica, Scottsdale, Seattle, Sonoma, Telluride, Washington DC
Asia: Bali, Beijing, Jaipur, Jakarta, Kunshan, Manila, Nanjing, Shanghai, Singapore
Europe: Baku, Barcelona, Hamburg, Kiev, London, Monte Carlo, Montreux, St Andrews
Mexico, Caribbean and Bermuda: Barbados, Hamilton, Riviera Maya, Southampton
Middle East and Africa: Abu Dhabi, Ajman, Cairo (3), Dubai (2), Makkah, Masai Mara, Mount Kenya, Nairobi, Zimbali (2)
In Development: Amman (2015), Austin (2017), Chengdu (2015), Fujairah (2015), Istanbul (2016), Lagos (2016), Moscow (2016), Riyadh (2015), Sharm el Sheikh (2015), Soma Bay (2020), Suzhou (2018), Taiyuan (2016), Zhengzhou (2018).
Fairmont has its own Flyertalk forum. It's current loyalty programme is called President's Club. The programme also covers Raffles and Swissôtel though the latter also operates its own loyalty programme.
Raffles
Raffles was established in 1887 in Singapore and currently comprises 12 luxury hotels with 4 in development.
Asia: Beijing, Hainan, Jakarta, Manila, Phnom Penh, Siem Reap, Singapore,
Europe: Istanbul, Paris,
Middle East and Africa: Dubai, Makkah, Praslin,
In Development: Jeddah (2018), Sharm el-Sheikh (2019), Shenzhen (2019), Warsaw (2017)
Swissôtel
Swissôtel was founded in 1980 as a joint venture between Swissair and Nestlé and currently includes 37 properties in 17 countries.
Australia: Sydney
Asia: Beijing, Foshan, Kunshan, Shanghai, Kolkata, Osaka, Singapore (2), Bangkok (2), Phuket
Europe: Tallinn, Berlin, Bremen, Dresden, Düsseldorf-Neuss, Amsterdam, Moscow, Sochi, Basel, Geneva (2), Zurich, Ankara, Bodrum (2), Istanbul (2), Izmir
Latin America: Quito, Lima,
United States: Chicago
Middle East: Makkah
In Development: Dhaka (2017), Sofia (2018), Changsha (2016), Chengdu (2016), Hangzhou (2019), Jinan (2020), Guayaquil (2017), Cairo (2020), Sharm el Sheikh (2016), Bali (2017), Jeddah (2017), Dubai (2018).
Swissôtel operates its own loyalty programme called Swissôtel Circle. This and Swissôtel hotels are currently being discussed in the Other Hotel Chains forum.
What happens next?
On 26 April 2016 Accor announced that it has received antitrust clearance for the purchase in relevant jurisdictions. The next step with be an extraordinary shareholders meeting (to be held on the 12th July 2016) to approve the capital increase and proposed board composition.
The deal closed on 12 July 2016. Nothing from a loyalty perspective will change immediately and the respective programmes and hotels will continue to operate as before.
FRHI inventory was loaded onto the Accor system on 12 July 2016, however none of the hotels will earn any points or can be used to redeem them. At the shareholder meeting Accor seemed to indicate that it will take 18 months for the loyalty aspects to be sorted. However it was clear that Le Club will be the future loyalty programme for all hotels.
Loyalty Integration
As of 2 July 2018 the Fairmont President's Club will cease to exist (the same goes for the Swissotel Circle). Both programmes will be folded into Le Club Accorhotels.
What does this mean for Le Club members? You will be able to earn and redeem points, and receive status related perks at all former FRHI hotels. This includes: early/late check in, welcome drink, upgrade (subject to availability), welcome amenity, free wifi. Lounge access for Platinum members will apply to Swissotel (where available) but does not include the Fairmont Gold Service (unless of course booked, including with points). Any stays at former FRHI hotels from January will contribute to your "night count" but no points will be accrued until 2 July.
What does this mean to FPC members? Members will be transferred into Le Club in July. Platinum members will become Le Club Platinum members, Premier will be Silver, Club will be standard members. The "nights stayed" count will transfer to Le Club in July and contribute to status in Le Club. However points will only accrue from July. Suite certificates can be used up beyond July.
Accor buys FRHI Holdings (Fairmont, Raffles and Swissôtel)
Oct 21, 2016, 10:23 am
#196
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2009
Location: FRA / YEG
Programs: AC Super Elite, Radisson Platinum, Accor Platinum
Posts: 11,874
This is what I don't get. Why only just Premier status??
In what world is 10 stays at Fairmont properties to earn Plat more of a worthy expense than 60 nights at Accor properties?
I will sit down this weekend and calculate how much I spent this year at Accor properties. Would be nice to know what percentage of FPC Platinum members spend a similar amount.
In what world is 10 stays at Fairmont properties to earn Plat more of a worthy expense than 60 nights at Accor properties?
I will sit down this weekend and calculate how much I spent this year at Accor properties. Would be nice to know what percentage of FPC Platinum members spend a similar amount.
1. Accor doesn't exactly have a reputation as the most generous loyalty program, so I'm not all that surprised that Accor didn't just give away a free night in a suite along with a $100USD F&B/spa credit to tens of thousands of Accor Plat members
Or to put it differently: FPC Plat status offers a huge amount of value up-front and doesn't require a cent of spending in return to use those benefits. Accor Plat status in itself is worthless. It's only of some value if one decided to actually spend money at Accor's mid-tier and higher-end properties, and the value one gets out of it is directly related to the amount of money one spends.
2. Presumably the goal is to offer an incentive to Accor Plat members to try the new brands. IMO offering a 3rd night free cert (valid on almost any rate) combined with a suite upgrade (confirmed at time of booking for up to 5 nights) would work very well for anyone who's regularly stays at 4*+ hotels.
(At least for me, there's a >90% chance I'd take advantage of such an offer if an upscale or luxury hotel chain offered that to me.)
----
But even if you disagree with this analysis, we're on the same track: Most FPC members are unhappy about the acquisition and the likely demise of the loyalty program in general. And Accor Plat members are currently unhappy about how the integration is handled.
Oct 21, 2016, 10:48 am
#197
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: ASIA
Programs: TK Elite, ALL Plus Diamond, Marriott Platinum, Hertz PC
Posts: 3,530
So here we go.
I have added up all my stays in the past 12 months in ACCOR properties and I have spent around EUR17,550 in hotel rooms (Mostly in Pullman and Sofitel).
That does not include stays where I extended nights, nor does it include any incidentals paid for at the properties.
But I guess I am not considered to be a individual worthy of a FPC Platinum status.
Thank you Accor for making me feel like a F1 guest.
I'm sure there are many others who have spent more, but what I am getting at is that I don't see why someone who has 10 stays at a Fairmont is now given the same privileges that I have access to but not vice versa.
sample pricing: Fairmont Jakarta is EUR310 per night next week. 10 stays = EUR3100 = FPC Platinum. And what do we need to spend next year to guarantee LCAH Platinum?? EUR5600!
And the Swisshotel program?! Nobody is talking about that because nobody cares! Get rid of that program! Swisshotel is in many cases no better than a Pullman and only in some cases on par. So why make it so difficult for everybody?
I have added up all my stays in the past 12 months in ACCOR properties and I have spent around EUR17,550 in hotel rooms (Mostly in Pullman and Sofitel).
That does not include stays where I extended nights, nor does it include any incidentals paid for at the properties.
But I guess I am not considered to be a individual worthy of a FPC Platinum status.
Thank you Accor for making me feel like a F1 guest.
I'm sure there are many others who have spent more, but what I am getting at is that I don't see why someone who has 10 stays at a Fairmont is now given the same privileges that I have access to but not vice versa.
sample pricing: Fairmont Jakarta is EUR310 per night next week. 10 stays = EUR3100 = FPC Platinum. And what do we need to spend next year to guarantee LCAH Platinum?? EUR5600!
And the Swisshotel program?! Nobody is talking about that because nobody cares! Get rid of that program! Swisshotel is in many cases no better than a Pullman and only in some cases on par. So why make it so difficult for everybody?
Last edited by gilbertaue; Oct 21, 2016 at 11:06 am
Oct 21, 2016, 10:57 am
#198
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: ASIA
Programs: TK Elite, ALL Plus Diamond, Marriott Platinum, Hertz PC
Posts: 3,530
I was merely looking at it from a business perspective:
1. Accor doesn't exactly have a reputation as the most generous loyalty program, so I'm not all that surprised that Accor didn't just give away a free night in a suite along with a $100USD F&B/spa credit to tens of thousands of Accor Plat members
Or to put it differently: FPC Plat status offers a huge amount of value up-front and doesn't require a cent of spending in return to use those benefits. Accor Plat status in itself is worthless. It's only of some value if one decided to actually spend money at Accor's mid-tier and higher-end properties, and the value one gets out of it is directly related to the amount of money one spends.
2. Presumably the goal is to offer an incentive to Accor Plat members to try the new brands. IMO offering a 3rd night free cert (valid on almost any rate) combined with a suite upgrade (confirmed at time of booking for up to 5 nights) would work very well for anyone who's regularly stays at 4*+ hotels.
(At least for me, there's a >90% chance I'd take advantage of such an offer if an upscale or luxury hotel chain offered that to me.)
----
But even if you disagree with this analysis, we're on the same track: Most FPC members are unhappy about the acquisition and the likely demise of the loyalty program in general. And Accor Plat members are currently unhappy about how the integration is handled.
1. Accor doesn't exactly have a reputation as the most generous loyalty program, so I'm not all that surprised that Accor didn't just give away a free night in a suite along with a $100USD F&B/spa credit to tens of thousands of Accor Plat members
Or to put it differently: FPC Plat status offers a huge amount of value up-front and doesn't require a cent of spending in return to use those benefits. Accor Plat status in itself is worthless. It's only of some value if one decided to actually spend money at Accor's mid-tier and higher-end properties, and the value one gets out of it is directly related to the amount of money one spends.
2. Presumably the goal is to offer an incentive to Accor Plat members to try the new brands. IMO offering a 3rd night free cert (valid on almost any rate) combined with a suite upgrade (confirmed at time of booking for up to 5 nights) would work very well for anyone who's regularly stays at 4*+ hotels.
(At least for me, there's a >90% chance I'd take advantage of such an offer if an upscale or luxury hotel chain offered that to me.)
----
But even if you disagree with this analysis, we're on the same track: Most FPC members are unhappy about the acquisition and the likely demise of the loyalty program in general. And Accor Plat members are currently unhappy about how the integration is handled.
What I do not agree with is that as a LCAH member who stays in upper tier hotels I am given a royal screw over while simply having 10 stays at a Fairmont guarantees that the same person (who most likely will stay in Sofitel or Pullman properties) will be challenging me on my regular upgrades (which have been working very well for me in Asia so far).
The majority of Fairmont members are US based. What this now opens up is a big portfolio in Asia with fairly nice properties (of course in some cities Fairmonts are present too and the members will most likely opt for those properties). So FPC members will have a choice of Fairmont and Accor higher end properties in this part of the world.
While if I travel to the US, which was the strategic region for Accor to acquire, I have no choice, and no status.
Oct 21, 2016, 11:06 am
#199
Join Date: Oct 2012
Programs: Dynasty Frequent Flyer (Elite Plus),Accor Platinum
Posts: 1,866
Well
The way I see it is they should offer Platinum members of Accor the same privileges as Fairmont plat members minus the certs, all other perks should be offered. Then they can add complimentary upgrades confirmed upon availability to include rooms and suites.
Then once that is done they can look to adopting some elements of FRHI membership but keeping the main earning and benefits of the Accor program.
Now Accor needs to be on its toes to make sure room upgrades are not grudgingly given and other things that have been discussed to death.
My experiences on the whole has been positive.
Over the past 18months my experiences has been:
After lots of memory searching 32 stays and was given 30 room/suite upgrades.
Now yes I can sort of see that 3 stays were I would have not been given upgrades if I did not push it a little hard (2 times was given a suite instead of a room) and the other one was discounted by 89% the price of a presidential suite as part of a deal.
But overall I think thats pretty good going.
Also I tend to not stay anything lower than Mercure/Novotel and higher up the better.
The earning points thing to me seems fine and actually quite simple straight forward. All airlines follow this and it seems most FRHI members deal with it okay with their preferred airline.
Anyway I know its not perfect but not as bad as some of the horror stories I heard. But then I also do my research so I know what to expect.
Again one would expect FHRI/Swissotel and Raffles loyalty programs will be history within 2 years.
Then once that is done they can look to adopting some elements of FRHI membership but keeping the main earning and benefits of the Accor program.
Now Accor needs to be on its toes to make sure room upgrades are not grudgingly given and other things that have been discussed to death.
My experiences on the whole has been positive.
Over the past 18months my experiences has been:
After lots of memory searching 32 stays and was given 30 room/suite upgrades.
Now yes I can sort of see that 3 stays were I would have not been given upgrades if I did not push it a little hard (2 times was given a suite instead of a room) and the other one was discounted by 89% the price of a presidential suite as part of a deal.
But overall I think thats pretty good going.
Also I tend to not stay anything lower than Mercure/Novotel and higher up the better.
The earning points thing to me seems fine and actually quite simple straight forward. All airlines follow this and it seems most FRHI members deal with it okay with their preferred airline.
Anyway I know its not perfect but not as bad as some of the horror stories I heard. But then I also do my research so I know what to expect.
Again one would expect FHRI/Swissotel and Raffles loyalty programs will be history within 2 years.
Oct 21, 2016, 11:13 am
#200
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2009
Location: FRA / YEG
Programs: AC Super Elite, Radisson Platinum, Accor Platinum
Posts: 11,874
Most Swissotels are fairly solid 4* business hotels, but nothing to write home about. The Swissotel program isn't bad, but the benefits are in line with many other loyalty programs and integrating Swissotel into the Accor program shouldn't be too hard.
FWIW, the benefits associated with the Raffles program are minimal, so I doubt anyone would miss that one.
What I do not agree with is that as a LCAH member who stays in upper tier hotels I am given a royal screw over while simply having 10 stays at a Fairmont guarantees that the same person (who most likely will stay in Sofitel or Pullman properties) will be challenging me on my regular upgrades (which have been working very well for me in Asia so far).
While my sample size may not be representative, I sent out a note to all my clients who have FPC Plat status and obviously also followed the reactions in the Fairmont forum, and to my surprise the reaction has mostly been "yeah, who cares", "Sofitels may be nice, but I don't like Accor and their CS is terrible" and "I used to have Accor Plat status and it didn't do much for me"
The most positive response I got was "is there a good Sofitel you can recommend?"
Oct 21, 2016, 12:24 pm
#201
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: YYZ
Programs: Accor ALL Diamond, AC Aeroplan 25K, Nexus/GE
Posts: 2,733
Many of the things that are common to other hotel programs for their top tier members, like upgrades on check-in, or access to executive lounges, are simply not a benefit of the Fairmont program. They may not have extended the FPC Plat match to Accor Platinum members, but even if they had, I don't think you'd notice much difference in your stay experience.
While my sample size may not be representative, I sent out a note to all my clients who have FPC Plat status and obviously also followed the reactions in the Fairmont forum, and to my surprise the reaction has mostly been "yeah, who cares", "Sofitels may be nice, but I don't like Accor and their CS is terrible" and "I used to have Accor Plat status and it didn't do much for me"
The most positive response I got was "is there a good Sofitel you can recommend?"
The most positive response I got was "is there a good Sofitel you can recommend?"
If/when they eventually merge the programs, then things might change. But as long as the programs are separate, I wouldn't expect a big influx of FPC members flocking to Sofitels and scooping up the upgrades.
Oct 21, 2016, 12:56 pm
#202
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Out of position
Programs: Accor, IHG, LH, BAEC, DB
Posts: 266
Time to stop the ranting, I think.
I'm sure there are many others who have spent more, but what I am getting at is that I don't see why someone who has 10 stays at a Fairmont is now given the same privileges that I have access to but not vice versa.
2.) From your posts, I'm not really sure you understand what a loyalty program is supposed to do. A loyalty program's purpose is not to reward regular customers per se.
Loyalty programs are designed to modify the decisions customers make. You're not targeting people which give you their business no matter what. You're trying to set incentives to generate additional business. And, the cost of setting those incentives should be less than the profits the new business generates.
Obviously, it's not possible in practice to perfectly incentivise individual customers. And because of that, some people may free-ride on a loyalty program. That's part of what FT is about.
Don't get me wrong. I enjoy reading this discussion. However, thus far, I don't think I've seen a convincing story explaining why Accor is choosing this route.
Oct 21, 2016, 8:53 pm
#203
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: ASIA
Programs: TK Elite, ALL Plus Diamond, Marriott Platinum, Hertz PC
Posts: 3,530
Not sure we know that to be true. Maybe the main strategic goal was to gain expertise in the luxury segment.
Time to stop the ranting, I think.
1.) The profit you create for Accor is not something that's proportional to the revenue you generate. Profit doesn't just depend on revenue. Reality is much more complicated. High-revenue generating customer doesn't necessarily equate to high-profit generating customer.
2.) From your posts, I'm not really sure you understand what a loyalty program is supposed to do. A loyalty program's purpose is not to reward regular customers per se.
Loyalty programs are designed to modify the decisions customers make. You're not targeting people which give you their business no matter what. You're trying to set incentives to generate additional business. And, the cost of setting those incentives should be less than the profits the new business generates.
Obviously, it's not possible in practice to perfectly incentivise individual customers. And because of that, some people may free-ride on a loyalty program. That's part of what FT is about.
Don't get me wrong. I enjoy reading this discussion. However, thus far, I don't think I've seen a convincing story explaining why Accor is choosing this route.
Time to stop the ranting, I think.
1.) The profit you create for Accor is not something that's proportional to the revenue you generate. Profit doesn't just depend on revenue. Reality is much more complicated. High-revenue generating customer doesn't necessarily equate to high-profit generating customer.
2.) From your posts, I'm not really sure you understand what a loyalty program is supposed to do. A loyalty program's purpose is not to reward regular customers per se.
Loyalty programs are designed to modify the decisions customers make. You're not targeting people which give you their business no matter what. You're trying to set incentives to generate additional business. And, the cost of setting those incentives should be less than the profits the new business generates.
Obviously, it's not possible in practice to perfectly incentivise individual customers. And because of that, some people may free-ride on a loyalty program. That's part of what FT is about.
Don't get me wrong. I enjoy reading this discussion. However, thus far, I don't think I've seen a convincing story explaining why Accor is choosing this route.
- FRHI’s unrivalled hotel portfolio, expertise in marketing luxury hotels and sizeable footprint in North America, provide a stronger platform to continue aggressive worldwide expansion.
So with positive news of Accor acquiring FRHI, and the now poor handling of the Loyalty program merger on their part, I am ranting. And will continue to do so.
What I see as a general trend here by FPC members is the assumption that there is no benefit in holding Accor Plat and I see the complete opposite. Referring to stays several years ago isn't reflective of the current situation either. I only had a handful of stays in the past 12 months where I did not receive one or the other benefit granted to Platinum status.
My sample stays are probably also not fully reflective of the Accor global spread as I spend about 80% of my stays in APAC and the rest in Europe. It may be worse in other regions - but we are reading less and less of such reports (compared to some years ago).
The reason I am with Accor is not the points - and I somewhat agree with a previous poster, if they want to remove the points system for high end hotels I may even be ok with it (as long as the stays there count towards status). I am with Accor due to the benefits it offers - so why would I be with them if they weren't granted consistently?
As a result what is this loyalty (and the resulting benefits) generating for Accor? 4 of my fellow colleagues have switched over to Accor. 1 has already reached Platinum status due to stays.
I don't disagree. But if it makes you any happier, I don't expect a mad rush of FPC Plats invading Sofitel properties across the world.
While my sample size may not be representative, I sent out a note to all my clients who have FPC Plat status and obviously also followed the reactions in the Fairmont forum, and to my surprise the reaction has mostly been "yeah, who cares", "Sofitels may be nice, but I don't like Accor and their CS is terrible" and "I used to have Accor Plat status and it didn't do much for me"
The most positive response I got was "is there a good Sofitel you can recommend?"
Oct 21, 2016, 9:20 pm
#204
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2009
Location: FRA / YEG
Programs: AC Super Elite, Radisson Platinum, Accor Platinum
Posts: 11,874
What I see as a general trend here by FPC members is the assumption that there is no benefit in holding Accor Plat and I see the complete opposite. Referring to stays several years ago isn't reflective of the current situation either. I only had a handful of stays in the past 12 months where I did not receive one or the other benefit granted to Platinum status.
I come back to my previous point: I just think that non regular members have not stayed often enough in Accor properties around the world in recent times to get a feel of the changes. So if you have Accor Plat, and you are in a region where there are hardly any Fairmont properties (ie APAC) why not try and then comment. And that is why I assumed earlier: Are most FPC members just restricted to the highly-populated NA market?
I come back to my previous point: I just think that non regular members have not stayed often enough in Accor properties around the world in recent times to get a feel of the changes. So if you have Accor Plat, and you are in a region where there are hardly any Fairmont properties (ie APAC) why not try and then comment. And that is why I assumed earlier: Are most FPC members just restricted to the highly-populated NA market?
Having had Accor Plat status in the past (after the improvements 2-3 years ago), my experience could be summarized as follows:
- the executive lounges in APAC were very nice, and service at times even 5*
- service at most hotels in Asia was very good, outside Asia it was very hit and miss
- Accor Plat members essentially earn a fixed 8% (now 8.8%) ROI via the points they earn (potentially more with promos), which hardly gets anyone excited compared with the other hotel loyalty programs out there
- upgrades have been no better than at other major hotel chains such as Hilton, Starwood etc., and at times required pushing the front desk agent, I much prefer the "upgrade confirmed at time of booking" vs. the (homeopathic) "upgrade based on availability at check-in" Accor offers
- many hotels lack an understanding of "loyalty"; this includes simple things such as "we'd like to reward you for your loyalty and as a sign of appreciation we'll give you a free non-alcoholic drink or a glass of mediocre house wine" - either offer a free drink or get rid of that benefit
- my experience with Accor CS has been rather mediocre (this includes both my recent experience requesting points credit, dealing with Accor CS in general as well as my experience dealing with Accor as a TA).
That being said, there's a good chance I'll shift a few stays to Accor based on having Plat status now. Unlike Hyatt Diamond or Fairmont Platinum status, Accor Plat is hardly a program I'm excited about. But I'm quite willing to give Accor another chance...
----
And to answer your question: Yes, most FPC Plat members are based in NA. I don't know how many Plat members travel outside NA and how often, but I'll guess that many trips NA-based FPC Plats take to Europe/Asia are for leisure. IMO Plat members are mainly interested in three main aspects:
1. great service at the property; staying at a unique landmark / historical property (Accor certainly has a few ptoperties in Asia and Europe which fall into that category)
2. great customer service on all levels and a great loyalty program in general (with all due respect, Accor hardly is known for this and has a lot of catching up to do)
3. upgrades confirmed at time of booking on those stays when it really matters (which FPC offers, while Accor isn't known to be overly generous with their "upgrades based on availability")
Last edited by Jasper2009; Oct 21, 2016 at 9:26 pm
Oct 21, 2016, 9:50 pm
#205
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: ASIA
Programs: TK Elite, ALL Plus Diamond, Marriott Platinum, Hertz PC
Posts: 3,530
I agree with you on all points here Jasper2009. Well said.
The Fairmont experience is certainly something different and this is where I say "why not allow us the same level of possibility to experience it".
I could easily move my Jakarta stays over to the Fairmont and achieve the 10 stays and have FPC Plat, at the expense of not staying at the Pullman Central Park which understand loyalty 100%.
But it is at that expense and just for the sake of getting FPC Plat? Then why not match status outright.
The Fairmont experience is certainly something different and this is where I say "why not allow us the same level of possibility to experience it".
I could easily move my Jakarta stays over to the Fairmont and achieve the 10 stays and have FPC Plat, at the expense of not staying at the Pullman Central Park which understand loyalty 100%.
But it is at that expense and just for the sake of getting FPC Plat? Then why not match status outright.
Oct 24, 2016, 10:06 pm
#206
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: CX Green, QF Platinum, BAEC Silver, Hyatt Glob
Posts: 10,780
Good question.
I have an old LeCA account (which I'd abandoned due to my frustrations with the way that program is administered), and when I followed the link I couldn't create a new Gold level account with my main email address. I just ended up with my old Classic level account.
So, I gave up. If it ends up a choice between LeCA or nothing, it'll be nothing for me.
Why you didn't get the offer email, I wouldn't know. I have been Swissotel Eleva for about 2 years.
I have an old LeCA account (which I'd abandoned due to my frustrations with the way that program is administered), and when I followed the link I couldn't create a new Gold level account with my main email address. I just ended up with my old Classic level account.
So, I gave up. If it ends up a choice between LeCA or nothing, it'll be nothing for me.
Why you didn't get the offer email, I wouldn't know. I have been Swissotel Eleva for about 2 years.
The reply also implied to me that when Accor sends me the Gold status offer (as they have requested they send it to me manually now), that I would be able to login and upgrade my existing Le Club account. I don't know if this is really going to happen, but Swissotel thinks it will.
Oct 26, 2016, 10:06 pm
#207
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Wellington/Jakarta
Programs: Accor+ Platinum, Honors Diamond, SPG/MR Gold, IHG, KrisFlyer, Airpoints, Qantas FF, Enrich, SkyMiles
Posts: 480
I think my strategy to requalify for Accor Platinum in 2018 would be to sign up for FPC and make 10 one-night stays at some Fairmonts and cheaper Swissotel.
I can then spend the rest of my available resources (time and money) to build up my status at other programs like SPG
I can then spend the rest of my available resources (time and money) to build up my status at other programs like SPG
Oct 26, 2016, 10:16 pm
#208
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: ASIA
Programs: TK Elite, ALL Plus Diamond, Marriott Platinum, Hertz PC
Posts: 3,530
I think my strategy to requalify for Accor Platinum in 2018 would be to sign up for FPC and make 10 one-night stays at some Fairmonts and cheaper Swissotel.
I can then spend the rest of my available resources (time and money) to build up my status at other programs like SPG
I can then spend the rest of my available resources (time and money) to build up my status at other programs like SPG
Oct 26, 2016, 10:28 pm
#209
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Wellington/Jakarta
Programs: Accor+ Platinum, Honors Diamond, SPG/MR Gold, IHG, KrisFlyer, Airpoints, Qantas FF, Enrich, SkyMiles
Posts: 480
"Receive Stay Credits at Raffles Hotels & Resorts and at Swissotel Hotels & Resorts"
It's one of the items in the listed FPC benefits which can be read here:
https://www.fairmont.com/fpc/benefits/
Oct 26, 2016, 10:34 pm
#210
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: CX Green, QF Platinum, BAEC Silver, Hyatt Glob
Posts: 10,780
I think my strategy to requalify for Accor Platinum in 2018 would be to sign up for FPC and make 10 one-night stays at some Fairmonts and cheaper Swissotel.
I can then spend the rest of my available resources (time and money) to build up my status at other programs like SPG
I can then spend the rest of my available resources (time and money) to build up my status at other programs like SPG
Also, if you can earn credits by staying at Swissotel, why does Swissotel have its own Circle program?
I'm currently Eleva at Swissotel, and could have a lot of future Swissotel stays, so I'm trying to work out the best way to credit these.