halls120

Exactly. UA can't "come clean" (whatever that means in this context) until all litigation is over.

This. Better to work harder at preventing overbooking in the first place.

Also this. Unless Oscar can find a way to change the attitudes of the minority of his front line employees who are toxic, he's going to have repeat experiences of this nightmare.

TravelTheWorld66

I hate the proposed bidding system for VDBs. It's more lucrative the way it is now.

STS-134

Yep. Actually, it doesn't matter what the stated maximum is, as long as it's far beyond what the lowest bidder will take. And on a plane full of 100+ people, there will always be someone who is retired, who is a college student and makes less than $2000 a month, etc., and the compensation will quickly become irresistible even at the $3k level. That person bites, and everyone else stays.

I absolutely would volunteer, and I would volunteer for...well, I'd certainly volunteer if they refunded my ticket cost entirely and still took me back home in the future, so I'd volunteer for about $3K. If they pay for hotel and other stuff, I'd probably volunteer for much less than that. I've experienced tropical cyclones before, but only up to tropical storm strength. I'd like to see what a typhoon/hurricane is like, just so I can say I've been through it. Places like HKG/TPE that experience things like this frequently are probably some of the safest places to ride out a storm, so...I absolutely would volunteer.

FlyngSvyr

All extreme situations that would be problems for any airlines regardless of their policies.

W & B is a safety issue, but I doubt LEO's will ever be called to remove pax in that situation if they can't get enough VDB. Just return to the gate and deplane everyone, only allowing the ones on that are NOT going to be IDB'd.

Downgauge situations would be identified and dealt with prior to boarding the aircraft. So, not sure how interesting the youtube video would be of upset passengers berating GA's for something that is out of their control

3Cforme

The bid at check-in system as implemented by Delta gives a carrier a lot of information about how passengers value their time for that specific flight - and well before boarding starts.

Let's say it's a 160-passenger 737-800, and everyone checking in by web/app/kiosk (100 people?) gets the 'overbooked' notice and a solicitation to volunteer. Maybe 15 bid. The carrier can review the bids (and save the data for later analysis across day of week/time of day/route to massage overbooking algorithms against last-minute fares). That's a lot of data being aggregated across ~5,000 flights a day. Of 15 bids, maybe the carrier needs 3 volunteers - easy, peasy. The computers could 'rank' the 15 bidders across not just bid price but ease of rerouting, need for baggage redirect, and other factors. It all can be much less work for GAs, frankly.

BearX220

Biggest single issue, bar none.

It was a fatal messaging error for Oscar to lead with a blind endorsement of his workforce -- when most of us familiar with UA know the workforce includes so many saboteurs.

And I don't know how many lofty policy pronouncements from atop Wacker it'll take to alter the miserable ground-level DNA at United. I don't think Oscar can fix it; I don't know if anyone can. But Oscar doesn't drive the United brand, day to day. Those employees do.

JBord

Anyone who sees this as negative or not far enough isn't being realistic, IMO. This is a positive change for customers overall, assuming it's executed properly.

All these odd scenarios about unseating someone for a FAM or using a cellphone after the door is shut don't really fit.

What made the Dao situation so rare was that a deadhead crew was booked close to takeoff time. UA has separately changed that policy. But in 99.9% of cases, customers will NOT be seated on the plane when either VDB or IDB occur (weight & balance on UX excluded).

In the examples I referenced above...a FAM shouldn't be assigned after a flight is boarded, and if in the rare case it happens, the hope here is that VDB of up to $10K would fix it.

If someone is using a cellphone on taxi, is asked to turn it off, and refuses to comply, this is not a VDB/IDB issue. It's a customer willfully and knowingly refusing to follow UA's posted rules, and that person should be removed from the plane.

Now, if this turns into a Dutch auction for VDB, maybe that's bad for some customers. It doesn't bother me, I don't make my travel plans with the intention of being VDB'd anyway. If I don't get the high amount I put in, I'm happy to fly my original flight.

Duke787

Yawn. Until they are able to change the culture and actually empower their front line employees (the way DL does) nothing will change. This isn't a new problem and while I wish Oscar all the best, the toxic culture continues to be one of the biggest thorns in UA's side and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

The pre-bid system does of course make tremendous sense - never understood why this wasn't implemented on UA. Seems like an easy implementation and quick way to get data and solve this problem and understand the comp levels for future VDB/IDB on specific routes. There are occasional reports on the DL forum of them actually pro-actively offering VDBs as well and collecting this data at the customer level might help them do that successfully in the future as well (person X always seems willing to take a bump on the 6pm RDU - EWR flight, if it's oversold let's see if we can get him to take the 9pm instead in exchange for a voucher before even getting to the airport).

BearX220

Yes, but it contains words you can't type on FT.

ntr91

In this situation, the GA now has $9,200 more they can offer to get one person in F to give up their seat. Odds are, someone will bite.

Same situation as above. If you're deboarding Y pax, there's bound to be at least a few people willing to take a couple grand for the next flight. Maybe not $800, but I don't know of many that will balk if the flight that cost them $300 is now giving them $3K in vouchers.


In this case, it would be known before boarding, so there'd be no video. What would most likely end up happening are discussions with J pax as to who's willing to fly Y+voucher just to get out of there. Then UA will just VDB/IDB enough Y pax to balance it out.


Probably, but look at how short-lasting the negative PR hit was for DL's cluster a few weeks ago. There'll be a major issue but only the people directly involved will care after a week, and from a PR standpoint, that's good enough.

EWR764

I think United, and this incident, is substantially responsible from stealing the anti-consumer spotlight from Delta in that particular instance.

eng3

So a DYKWIA decides they deserve to sit in your F or E+ or exit row seat and refuses to move. UA can ask them to move but they refuse. They also cannot call the cops because there is no "safety or security" issue. You are now left going to the back.

Can't find the thread. I recall this actually happened to someone years ago where some lady helped herself to his F seat and he had to sit in the back. He chose not to delay the flight and just sit in the back. The DYKWIA always wins while the rest of us have to suffer.

This will cause people to hold out for higher compensation. Maybe not $10000 but now that there is a published number, people can gauge. Overall the process is not much different than before. GA can go up to a certain number, then gets approval to go higher.

This will just increase delays and cancellations down the line. Better to inconvenience hundreds of people rather than a handfull.

STS-134

I don't see why it would. There are no minimums or maximums for the sale price of a house. But you don't see bidders holding out to try to get the seller to lower the price, because they're afraid that if they do, another bidder will get it.

ACVBear

For the VDB bidding, how does the Delta system work? I will say my $ compensation depends Heavily on what the potential alternatives are, but I'm not sure how an automated process can actually show a reasonable set of those options.

Smart business move by the way, find a bar to keep people happy and avoid IDB. unless they still choose to IDB people because it will be less than the $ people volunteer. Tough for us to play the auction system at the gate too. Plus, as others have mentioned in the thread, generates a lot of data to mine later on.

fly18725

We don't know the intentions of employees and it is quite jaded to assume any employee is intentionally sabotaging a situation. Personally, I find the majority of United front line employees to be dedicated and capable. Sometimes they're having a bad day, but treating them with respect goes a long way to getting good service.

Are there employees that are lazy, incompetent or have bad attitudes? Heck yes. Anyone who has managed employees could recognize that corporate culture, unreasonable expectations, management perceived as disconnected or a host of other internal issues can contribute to these feelings. The first step to improving customer service is to improve the relationship with employees. While Oscar's internal communication on UA3411 fell flat externally, it is critical for management to reinforce that they have every employees' back every day (provided employees are following policies and procedures). Giving front line employees more discretion and additional tools can make the work more rewarding, increasing motivation and performance for many of these employees. As the culture, processes and procedures change, management can identify the employees who refuse to adopt and make the decision to get rid of these bad apples.