johnmont

I find it amazing that they would want to give up over 100 seats per flight for that route. I fly that route a lot (I'm a business partner in a SYD based company) and its always quite full. I'd always assumed it was a great route for them....that they could use an A380 on the route if they had one.

Though the mention of an LAX-MEL 787 could help that I suppose.

CO_Nonrev_elite

Depends on the airline. On Turkish, their current Business class great and their premier economy is like a 2008 business class for most carriers. There is a HUGE gulf between Premium economy and normal Economy.

DaviddesJ

We were talking about NZ, and looking at their actual Premium Economy seats they don't seem hugely better than UA E+.

kevanyalowitz

In other words, no. No doubt that paid C will decrease further with this change...

mduell

A cursory analysis suggests they're giving up little freight:

LAX-SYD is ~7100nm ESAD

B744 with PW engines can go that distance at 245t ZFW minus the 197t OEW is 48t payload minus 348 pax @ 210 lb/ea leaves 11.5t for cargo.

B77E with typical engines can go that distance at 195t ZFW minus 152t OEW is 43t payload minus 267 pax @ 210 lb/ea leaves 15t for cargo.

blueman2

Well, the first thing to go through my mind was 'will this impact Annie' based on the comments of CO crew taking over the route. But they are operating as a single company now, right? Please tell me they won't get rid of Annie.....

As for selfish me, the only reason I fly UA to SYD is the chance for Global First upgrade with GPU. Without that, I would rather fly someone with less crowded and less narrow Business Class.

kevanyalowitz

This is spot on. UA seems to think that by killing GF there will be no impact on paid J. GF is the only thing that keeps many paying full fare for UA's crappy J product. Remove GF and you are going to see high frequency J travelers (GS) moving to other carriers.

DL's new J is looking better and better...

golfingboy

Unfortunately, the DL J on the SYD route sucks. Narrow, short, rock hard, and faces towards the middle of the cabin. The J seats on the 747 looks pretty good.

If I was with DL, I would take VA.

CO_Nonrev_elite

41-42 inches pitch over 34 inches
50% more recline
Raised Footrest
PTV in all the seats vs nothing

I'd say it's pretty significantly better

swm61230

I am shocked. I am sure if they could they would put an RJ on the route and say it is just fine.

And I agree that the pmCO BF seat is the worst. I never thought it really could get much worse then a pmUA BF seat but I was proven wrong when I was on a 787 NRT-LAX. Which is another one of the pmUA LAX based flights that has gone by way of the dodo bird.

The 787 is a joke. From what I have been able to see as look they are having delayed flights all over with the damn thing for mechanical issues. And the crew that is flying it should be grounded and fired for life. Who the hell leaves a seatbelt sign on for 6hrs(not a bump!) then makes an announcement before landing that captain will be turning the seatbelt sign on shortly.

So you have a very old plane with mechanical problems and you have a new plane with mechanical problems. Sounds like the damn mechanics need to do their job better and keep parts on hand and the planes maintained.

CO_Nonrev_elite

truthfully, it's a mixed bag. Sometimes are better than others for sure. I just looked at the loads for the next 2-3 weeks, and only 1 day was full in F, most had plenty of place. I assure you, it they were filling F with passengers paying F prices, there would not be a downgrade. From what discussions / Data I've seen, significant amount of paid F in general is not great on most routes

born sleepy

I don't get all the hate for the CO BF seat. I have slept like a log in those on long-haul CO 777s many times. Once I flew UA 744 in F (before it was GF, ca 2002, I think it was called First Suite) to SYD and back and I know I slept better in the CO seat.

Haven't experienced the new GF seat but the CO BF seat is fiiiine. I'm not a tall man so maybe that's in my favor.

kevanyalowitz

You were talking about paid C, not F. What are the paid C loads for the next 7 days? What share of the F loads are paid C on upgrades? These likely are not be representative of loads 1 week out during November to February.

Do you think those in ON on J/C/D fares will really fly UA when a better J alternative is available?

kevanyalowitz

It's fine if you paid discount Y for it, not if you actually paid for it.

CO_Nonrev_elite

Picky Picky, you know what I am referring to

I think you already know I'm not allowed to post that detail

Of course, but truthfully that period is heavy primarily for leisure travel, not just business.

As far as the comment about do I think others will choose to swap business class when the F Upgrade is removed, it wasn't my comment, but I think a mixed bag. I think people like having status, I think they like earning their miles and I think they like familiarity, so my guess is that as a general rule the majority would not change. A customer that normally books the route in business knowing that he can GPU into F without paying F prices may opt for a better Business class.

I'm a 1K. I fly roughly 10-15 long haul (8hr+) trips per year. Usually it's booked in economy and GPU assisted into business class. It's been a long time since I took a long haul flight in economy. In the current 9 week period, I have 3 trips to China, and all three of these are oddly enough are paid business. Pricing wise, United was the best price, best routing, and kept my anxiety in check against flying some of the historically challenged chinese carriers. Therefore, when the GPU option was not the deciding factor, I didn't change carriers. That of course is me talking about my travel, I can't specifically talk for the others.