Apr 9, 2016, 12:35 pm
Last edit by: Oxon Flyer
Deal closed SEP 23 - http://news.marriott.com/2016/09/marriott-international-expanded-loyalty-benefits/
FAQ :
http://members.marriott.com/faq/#will-rewards-and-spg-be-turning-into-one-program
Will Rewards and SPG be turning into one program?
These are two of the best programs in the industry, and we want you to benefit from everything that makes SPG and Rewards great. We don’t anticipate that the two programs will come together before 2018, and we will keep you informed of any updates. In the meantime, there’s no change to how you book reservations, manage your accounts or earn Elite night credits, points and miles in the current programs.
If I have Lifetime Status in one of the programs, will I also get it in the other program when I link my accounts?
We appreciate your loyalty! Lifetime Status is specific to the program that you earned it in. While linking accounts will not result in Lifetime Status in the other program, your Elite status will be matched to the same Elite tier in the other program. Any existing Lifetime Status you already hold within either program will still be enjoyed within that program. We’re working on more ways to recognize your loyalty and Lifetime Status as we work towards harmonizing the programs, which we don’t anticipate happening until 2018.
You can now link your Marriott Rewards or Ritz-Carlton Rewards account with your SPG account.
It will be a 3:1 transfer ratio between MR-SPG
FAQ :
http://members.marriott.com/faq/#will-rewards-and-spg-be-turning-into-one-program
Will Rewards and SPG be turning into one program?
These are two of the best programs in the industry, and we want you to benefit from everything that makes SPG and Rewards great. We don’t anticipate that the two programs will come together before 2018, and we will keep you informed of any updates. In the meantime, there’s no change to how you book reservations, manage your accounts or earn Elite night credits, points and miles in the current programs.
If I have Lifetime Status in one of the programs, will I also get it in the other program when I link my accounts?
We appreciate your loyalty! Lifetime Status is specific to the program that you earned it in. While linking accounts will not result in Lifetime Status in the other program, your Elite status will be matched to the same Elite tier in the other program. Any existing Lifetime Status you already hold within either program will still be enjoyed within that program. We’re working on more ways to recognize your loyalty and Lifetime Status as we work towards harmonizing the programs, which we don’t anticipate happening until 2018.
You can now link your Marriott Rewards or Ritz-Carlton Rewards account with your SPG account.
It will be a 3:1 transfer ratio between MR-SPG
Latest on the Starwood and Marriott merger : deal closed on 23 Sep.
Apr 8, 2016, 7:59 pm
#46
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Pittsburgh
Programs: MR/SPG LT Titanium, AA LT PLT, UA SLV, Avis PreferredPlus
Posts: 31,009
I received no email from either program, based on either my or MrsCP's accounts. I guess unsubscribing to communications also includes merger updates. But, as always, FT keeps me in the loop.
Apr 8, 2016, 8:16 pm
#47
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: a hotel room, somewhere...
Posts: 962
Marriott is not an unknown. it is a known known. except for a few outliers here who just love that cute courtyard in Lawton OK, the overwhelming # of people who are Plat SPG and are/have been MAR Plat extol the benefits of their SPG status and lament the markedly inferior experiences with MAR. Expecting MAR to do a 180 on established culture and elite treatment is illogical.
and, yeah, we talk about these things because they require action. a fair conversion would be 5:1. we'll likely see 2:1. if you have 10,000 points and 'preferred' SPG status, you won't understand. If you are Plat SPG and have 1.2mm points, you do! perhaps your username is a tell...
Apr 8, 2016, 8:36 pm
#48
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: a hotel room, somewhere...
Posts: 962
#blackfriday
started the year with 1.2mm starpoints, down to 700m (already used, future bookings and a couple poorly timed N&F to Alaska (guess i'll be using them for Cathay instead of Emirates!).
i'll continue to spend down. i worry about N&F disappearing before they merge. Having seen enough overnight 'enhancements' over the years, i'd rather lock things in than wake up one morning this fall, next spring, or whenever and wish that i had.
my biggest issue now is things like the new Hyatt promotion taking 25 nights of SPG award stays away-> Hyatt paid nights, while needing to requalify for other status around all my SPG award stays (highly unlikely i'll have a paid SPG stay in the next 2 years due to this merger). Also, making sure i get good value for my points. my bar is set at .03, though i average better than that (vs the average of .006 for MAR points).
started the year with 1.2mm starpoints, down to 700m (already used, future bookings and a couple poorly timed N&F to Alaska (guess i'll be using them for Cathay instead of Emirates!).
i'll continue to spend down. i worry about N&F disappearing before they merge. Having seen enough overnight 'enhancements' over the years, i'd rather lock things in than wake up one morning this fall, next spring, or whenever and wish that i had.
my biggest issue now is things like the new Hyatt promotion taking 25 nights of SPG award stays away-> Hyatt paid nights, while needing to requalify for other status around all my SPG award stays (highly unlikely i'll have a paid SPG stay in the next 2 years due to this merger). Also, making sure i get good value for my points. my bar is set at .03, though i average better than that (vs the average of .006 for MAR points).
Apr 8, 2016, 8:37 pm
#49
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Programs: UALifetimePremierGold, Marriott LifetimeTitanium
Posts: 71,113
I also think they're not going to spring a surprise on either set of elites. It will take place in 2018 but probably be announced in mid-2017.
I don't care if you're a member of Marriott, Starwood, Hyatt, Hilton, IHG, fill in the program. If you're not staying at a property in 12-24 mths & are not willing to pay a minimal sum ($12.50/1,000 pts w/ Marriott as an example) to keep your points from expiring, then you deserve to lose them.
I'm a prime example. I had points w/ SPG from my various stays, but spent more time w/ Marriott. Lost my SPG points a few times (and IIRC didn't get an email from SPG reminding me of that, although I'm vague on that. I know some of the other chains pro-actively remind you - Hilton & Hyatt come to mind).
Or, they could just grant your 2016 earned status all through 2018. Accor seems to be doing that for their acquisition of Fairmont/Swisshotel. It makes the IT process so much easier and makes a lot of customers happy. I would wager this will be their move. Plus it will make any bad news they release on January 1st, 2018 a bit easier to swallow.
As an ex-Marriott Platinum, I found MR to be the most inconsistent program in the industry. Benefits varied by brand, location, day of the week, country, and apparently the whims of each property.The mini-bottles of water offered by Renaissance as a "welcome gift" were a joke, and the faux-partners, such as AC... well, forget it. I still remember my wife and I being allowed into the Concierge Lounge in Japan, but not my adult son, although he was in the same suite with us... only two guests allowed to enter per room. That was my final year with Marriott. My point is that if the Marriott culture prevails, which I'm sure it will, SPG will be truly missed. My condolences to all.
BTW - are you referring to AC or Autograph Collection (which some folk call AC) - they're two separate brands. The former (AC) is limited service; the latter (Autograph Collection & more boutique) full service.
Also Marriott's policy is elite+1 into the exec lounge. Some properties (a lot) extend that to family. Others, however, don't. Asia seems to be more tight (from what I can tell, also w/ SPG) re: enforcing the rules. Maybe it's a cultural thing. I don't know. Having said that, Asia properties w/ Marriott have nicer lounges as does SPG. And unlike the US/Canada, the majority of Courtyards in Asia have exec lounges & if they don't, still extend the breakfast bennie.
Marriott has almost 900 properties where one gets lounge access or breakfast. Close to 900 properties though is a good thing in terms of lounge coverage for both sides (well even more when some of the SPG lounges (ie, Sheraton?) are added to the mix.
William, you and the Lurkers are one of the many reasons that many of us have remained loyal to SPG over the years/
I do really hope that the new MR/SPG team will be listening to us, as you have indicated above. We hope to continue our association with you and with the new SPG under MR, and we are keeping our fingers crossed.
I do really hope that the new MR/SPG team will be listening to us, as you have indicated above. We hope to continue our association with you and with the new SPG under MR, and we are keeping our fingers crossed.
. Marriott used to have a MarriottConcierge who was similar to the Lurkers, but not quite the same authority. But once Marriott started their Insiders forum on their own website, most of the MC (aka, Lurker) takes place there. The MC does announce stuff on FT, but again Marriott relies on Insiders. I personally hope that the SPG folk will make a case for keeping the Lurkers on the (eventually merged) forum on FT.BTW - I've had the pleasure of meeting William multiple times & he's been a personal guest at my home (drinking excellent Scotch ^) w/ other FTers.
Also, to set something to rest. Yes I've stayed at Marriott more over the years than SPG. I like both chains. I'm more familiar w/ the Marriott program simply because I stay there more often. Are there things Marriott does better than SPG? Heck yes. Anyone who says otherwise is just silly. Are there things that SPG does better than Marriott. Heck yes. Anyone who says otherwise is just silly. Neither program is perfect. Both programs have pros.
Also, while we on FT keep up to date on all things loyalty program/every nuance, there are a heck of a lot more elites on both sides of the programs that don't really pay attention at all. While I know that sounds like blasphemy it's true. Heck I've sat next to people multiple times in exec lounges or on airplanes that are top tier & really don't follow any of the stuff we on FT obsess about. One could say they're silly for missing out on so many things. They may not care. Just like they might say we're nuts for obsessing about stuff.
My intent on posting more in SPG moving forward is for a variety of reasons: a) to keep up w/ changes that will affect both programs; b) to learn more about SPG especially in the areas I'm not familiar w/; c) to provide info re: Marriott for those SPG folk who aren't familiar w/ Marriott to bring them up to speed; d) to provide my 2 cents like others on some generic topics that are germane to either forum, such as folk taking everything but the kitchen sink from the lounges
Let's not forget - FT is about sharing information.
Cheers.
Last edited by SkiAdcock; Apr 8, 2016 at 9:14 pm
Apr 8, 2016, 8:45 pm
#50
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 54
"I know that is a mighty big nasty pill to swallow, but swallow it you most certainly will. “
Apr 8, 2016, 9:28 pm
#52
Join Date: Dec 2009
Programs: BA Gold; AA Lfe Time PLT ; Marriott Titanium, LFT GLD
Posts: 1,276
#blackfriday
started the year with 1.2mm starpoints, down to 700m (already used, future bookings and a couple poorly timed N&F to Alaska (guess i'll be using them for Cathay instead of Emirates!).
i'll continue to spend down. i worry about N&F disappearing before they merge. Having seen enough overnight 'enhancements' over the years, i'd rather lock things in than wake up one morning this fall, next spring, or whenever and wish that i had.
started the year with 1.2mm starpoints, down to 700m (already used, future bookings and a couple poorly timed N&F to Alaska (guess i'll be using them for Cathay instead of Emirates!).
i'll continue to spend down. i worry about N&F disappearing before they merge. Having seen enough overnight 'enhancements' over the years, i'd rather lock things in than wake up one morning this fall, next spring, or whenever and wish that i had.
Apr 8, 2016, 9:48 pm
#53
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,752
Marriott is not an unknown. it is a known known. except for a few outliers here who just love that cute courtyard in Lawton OK, the overwhelming # of people who are Plat SPG and are/have been MAR Plat extol the benefits of their SPG status and lament the markedly inferior experiences with MAR. Expecting MAR to do a 180 on established culture and elite treatment is illogical.
and, yeah, we talk about these things because they require action. a fair conversion would be 5:1. we'll likely see 2:1. if you have 10,000 points and 'preferred' SPG status, you won't understand. If you are Plat SPG and have 1.2mm points, you do! perhaps your username is a tell...
Apr 8, 2016, 10:02 pm
#54
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Wayne, PA USA
Programs: DL MM, Marriott Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, HHonors Gold
Posts: 7,242
I'm sort of a "both" person, so here's how I'd like to see it play out. First, I think that SPG generally does offer their higher-level platinums a more consistent and unique set of benefits across the portfolio. I'd like to see that carry over as much as possible in the new, combined entity, recognizing that some brands and properties are deliberately allowed a great deal of attitude (*cough* Cosmopolitan *cough*). On the other hand, I think this is a great opportunity for Marriott to finally remove the "resort" penalty on Golds and Platinums. So, I'd like to see a program that maps more to SPG-like benefits as follows:
Silver - Remains similar to Marriott Silver today
Gold - Becomes the current base SPG Platinum and includes breakfast at resorts. Loses suite upgrade opportunities and is just upgrade to best available non-suite at check-in.
Platinum - Becomes the current SPG Platinum 75 and includes breakfast at resorts. Includes junior suite upgrades at checkin, based on availability.
Diamond - New name for SPG Platinum 100 and retains all SPG Platinum 100 benefits.
Diamond Preferred - New name for the old Platinum Preferred Program. Diamond benefits. Welcome letter from Bill Marriott. Special gift and "Diamond Preferred Ambassador". 15 Suite night awards, confirmable at time of booking based on room availability (if the property has a suite available at time of booking, it can be immediately confirmed). 2 Suite night awards can be used to book one night of a higher category suite, or a suite at a property that's normally not available (RC Reserve, BVLGARI, EDITION).
Lifetime levels for Silver, Gold, and Platinum maintained, and existing SPG and Marriott Lifetime Silver, Gold, and Platinums grandfathered in. No Lifetime Diamonds or Diamond Preferred in the new program. Lifetime status earned via a combination of nights and points (not consecutive years so people who have an off year aren't penalized as they are under SPG).
Silver - Remains similar to Marriott Silver today
Gold - Becomes the current base SPG Platinum and includes breakfast at resorts. Loses suite upgrade opportunities and is just upgrade to best available non-suite at check-in.
Platinum - Becomes the current SPG Platinum 75 and includes breakfast at resorts. Includes junior suite upgrades at checkin, based on availability.
Diamond - New name for SPG Platinum 100 and retains all SPG Platinum 100 benefits.
Diamond Preferred - New name for the old Platinum Preferred Program. Diamond benefits. Welcome letter from Bill Marriott. Special gift and "Diamond Preferred Ambassador". 15 Suite night awards, confirmable at time of booking based on room availability (if the property has a suite available at time of booking, it can be immediately confirmed). 2 Suite night awards can be used to book one night of a higher category suite, or a suite at a property that's normally not available (RC Reserve, BVLGARI, EDITION).
Lifetime levels for Silver, Gold, and Platinum maintained, and existing SPG and Marriott Lifetime Silver, Gold, and Platinums grandfathered in. No Lifetime Diamonds or Diamond Preferred in the new program. Lifetime status earned via a combination of nights and points (not consecutive years so people who have an off year aren't penalized as they are under SPG).
Apr 8, 2016, 10:54 pm
#55
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Dallas & San Diego
Programs: AA Plat, SPG Plat 100, Marriott Gold
Posts: 31
ummm... nobody expects the sky to fall immediately. if you don't expect, and don't plan for the proverbial sky falling on spg benefits, you're delusional and have learned nothing from any previous merger.
Marriott is not an unknown. it is a known known. except for a few outliers here who just love that cute courtyard in Lawton OK, the overwhelming # of people who are Plat SPG and are/have been MAR Plat extol the benefits of their SPG status and lament the markedly inferior experiences with MAR. Expecting MAR to do a 180 on established culture and elite treatment is illogical.
and, yeah, we talk about these things because they require action. a fair conversion would be 5:1. we'll likely see 2:1. if you have 10,000 points and 'preferred' SPG status, you won't understand. If you are Plat SPG and have 1.2mm points, you do! perhaps your username is a tell...
Marriott is not an unknown. it is a known known. except for a few outliers here who just love that cute courtyard in Lawton OK, the overwhelming # of people who are Plat SPG and are/have been MAR Plat extol the benefits of their SPG status and lament the markedly inferior experiences with MAR. Expecting MAR to do a 180 on established culture and elite treatment is illogical.
and, yeah, we talk about these things because they require action. a fair conversion would be 5:1. we'll likely see 2:1. if you have 10,000 points and 'preferred' SPG status, you won't understand. If you are Plat SPG and have 1.2mm points, you do! perhaps your username is a tell...
I am happy they said that we have time to burn our points. What would upset me is if the MR plats would be able to book into our hotels using their points when they earn 5 points per dollar spend when SPG earns only 1 dollar per dollar spend.
I know there are thousands of MR plats/golds that want to book our SPG hotels. What's going to happen to the point spread between 2016 and 2018?
A fair point spread would be 5 Marriott points per every SPG point. So if a SPG property was 10,000 SPG points it would cost MR 50,000 points per night to redeem.
Bonnie
Apr 8, 2016, 11:31 pm
#56
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: District of Columbia
Programs: SPG Plat, Hyatt Diamond, Hilton Diamond (SM), Asiana Diamond.
Posts: 45
I'm sort of a "both" person, so here's how I'd like to see it play out. First, I think that SPG generally does offer their higher-level platinums a more consistent and unique set of benefits across the portfolio. I'd like to see that carry over as much as possible in the new, combined entity, recognizing that some brands and properties are deliberately allowed a great deal of attitude (*cough* Cosmopolitan *cough*). On the other hand, I think this is a great opportunity for Marriott to finally remove the "resort" penalty on Golds and Platinums. So, I'd like to see a program that maps more to SPG-like benefits as follows:
Silver - Remains similar to Marriott Silver today
Gold - Becomes the current base SPG Platinum and includes breakfast at resorts. Loses suite upgrade opportunities and is just upgrade to best available non-suite at check-in.
Platinum - Becomes the current SPG Platinum 75 and includes breakfast at resorts. Includes junior suite upgrades at checkin, based on availability.
Diamond - New name for SPG Platinum 100 and retains all SPG Platinum 100 benefits.
Diamond Preferred - New name for the old Platinum Preferred Program. Diamond benefits. Welcome letter from Bill Marriott. Special gift and "Diamond Preferred Ambassador". 15 Suite night awards, confirmable at time of booking based on room availability (if the property has a suite available at time of booking, it can be immediately confirmed). 2 Suite night awards can be used to book one night of a higher category suite, or a suite at a property that's normally not available (RC Reserve, BVLGARI, EDITION).
Lifetime levels for Silver, Gold, and Platinum maintained, and existing SPG and Marriott Lifetime Silver, Gold, and Platinums grandfathered in. No Lifetime Diamonds or Diamond Preferred in the new program. Lifetime status earned via a combination of nights and points (not consecutive years so people who have an off year aren't penalized as they are under SPG).
Silver - Remains similar to Marriott Silver today
Gold - Becomes the current base SPG Platinum and includes breakfast at resorts. Loses suite upgrade opportunities and is just upgrade to best available non-suite at check-in.
Platinum - Becomes the current SPG Platinum 75 and includes breakfast at resorts. Includes junior suite upgrades at checkin, based on availability.
Diamond - New name for SPG Platinum 100 and retains all SPG Platinum 100 benefits.
Diamond Preferred - New name for the old Platinum Preferred Program. Diamond benefits. Welcome letter from Bill Marriott. Special gift and "Diamond Preferred Ambassador". 15 Suite night awards, confirmable at time of booking based on room availability (if the property has a suite available at time of booking, it can be immediately confirmed). 2 Suite night awards can be used to book one night of a higher category suite, or a suite at a property that's normally not available (RC Reserve, BVLGARI, EDITION).
Lifetime levels for Silver, Gold, and Platinum maintained, and existing SPG and Marriott Lifetime Silver, Gold, and Platinums grandfathered in. No Lifetime Diamonds or Diamond Preferred in the new program. Lifetime status earned via a combination of nights and points (not consecutive years so people who have an off year aren't penalized as they are under SPG).
Apr 9, 2016, 12:27 am
#57
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,970
Merger Strategy - Status Chasing and Conversion Rate
I guess the plan is the programs won't merge until 2018 but there will be "bridges" before that.
It seems the "bridge" would be built rather fast and would probably have some kind of reciprocal elite benefits and maybe even pooled stay/night counts? So, maybe one should just focus on one program and worry more about part two - the conversion rate? If one has liftetime status, then maybe don't worry about chasing status at all?
It seems the consensus is that it will be less and maybe way less than 1 SPG = 5 MR (assuming the current MR system is the one used in the combined program). So, how do we even work the math to earn and spend points wisely/defensively?
I know we don't have the numbers or rules but I wonder how others look at the problem and work out the logic... All this time, I have been looking at SPG * X = MR and want X to be high. I just realized I don't want X to be high since I have a lot MR points from a lot more years of stays than SPG and if MR / X merges into SPG ...
Thanks...
It seems the "bridge" would be built rather fast and would probably have some kind of reciprocal elite benefits and maybe even pooled stay/night counts? So, maybe one should just focus on one program and worry more about part two - the conversion rate? If one has liftetime status, then maybe don't worry about chasing status at all?
It seems the consensus is that it will be less and maybe way less than 1 SPG = 5 MR (assuming the current MR system is the one used in the combined program). So, how do we even work the math to earn and spend points wisely/defensively?
I know we don't have the numbers or rules but I wonder how others look at the problem and work out the logic... All this time, I have been looking at SPG * X = MR and want X to be high. I just realized I don't want X to be high since I have a lot MR points from a lot more years of stays than SPG and if MR / X merges into SPG ...
Thanks...
Apr 9, 2016, 2:08 am
#58
Join Date: Sep 2005
Programs: Lifetime *G (MP), Lifetime PE (Bonvoy)
Posts: 1,465
Given the intimate relationship between Marriott and United and the poor points transfer rate between SPG and United that's the one area I'll be looking to for improvement with SPG. That and retaining automatic Marriott Gold because of my Lifetime Gold status with United
Apr 9, 2016, 3:28 am
#59
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 425
So if you have MR points and don't want X to be high that's called 'having your cake and eating it too' which is not possible.
SPG to UA is 1:1 and UA to MR is 1:2 so it seems plausible that SPG to MR will be 1:2 worst case scenario and 1:2 point something better case scenario, considering that SPG gives 5K bonus when converting 20k points. It is also possible that they run two parallel program for some time beyond 2017 but the lifetime status is dicey since SPG is only nights and Marriott is a combination of nights + points earned or something. I'll be close to 400 nights by end of this year so I have lot at stake as well as some strategic decision making as to whether I'll stop at my average 50 nights next year or throw $5,000 for $100/night average hotel rate to lock in 100 nights and a lifetime status!
SPG to UA is 1:1 and UA to MR is 1:2 so it seems plausible that SPG to MR will be 1:2 worst case scenario and 1:2 point something better case scenario, considering that SPG gives 5K bonus when converting 20k points. It is also possible that they run two parallel program for some time beyond 2017 but the lifetime status is dicey since SPG is only nights and Marriott is a combination of nights + points earned or something. I'll be close to 400 nights by end of this year so I have lot at stake as well as some strategic decision making as to whether I'll stop at my average 50 nights next year or throw $5,000 for $100/night average hotel rate to lock in 100 nights and a lifetime status!
Apr 9, 2016, 4:12 am
#60
formerly fdemoulin
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: UK
Programs: SPG Lifetime Platinum, BA Silver, Virgin Flying Club Red
Posts: 916
So if you have MR points and don't want X to be high that's called 'having your cake and eating it too' which is not possible.
SPG to UA is 1:1 and UA to MR is 1:2 so it seems plausible that SPG to MR will be 1:2 worst case scenario and 1:2 point something better case scenario, considering that SPG gives 5K bonus when converting 20k points. It is also possible that they run two parallel program for some time beyond 2017 but the lifetime status is dicey since SPG is only nights and Marriott is a combination of nights + points earned or something. I'll be close to 400 nights by end of this year so I have lot at stake as well as some strategic decision making as to whether I'll stop at my average 50 nights next year or throw $5,000 for $100/night average hotel rate to lock in 100 nights and a lifetime status!
SPG to UA is 1:1 and UA to MR is 1:2 so it seems plausible that SPG to MR will be 1:2 worst case scenario and 1:2 point something better case scenario, considering that SPG gives 5K bonus when converting 20k points. It is also possible that they run two parallel program for some time beyond 2017 but the lifetime status is dicey since SPG is only nights and Marriott is a combination of nights + points earned or something. I'll be close to 400 nights by end of this year so I have lot at stake as well as some strategic decision making as to whether I'll stop at my average 50 nights next year or throw $5,000 for $100/night average hotel rate to lock in 100 nights and a lifetime status!