Apr 9, 2016, 12:35 pm
Last edit by: Oxon Flyer
Deal closed SEP 23 - http://news.marriott.com/2016/09/marriott-international-expanded-loyalty-benefits/
FAQ :
http://members.marriott.com/faq/#will-rewards-and-spg-be-turning-into-one-program
Will Rewards and SPG be turning into one program?
These are two of the best programs in the industry, and we want you to benefit from everything that makes SPG and Rewards great. We don’t anticipate that the two programs will come together before 2018, and we will keep you informed of any updates. In the meantime, there’s no change to how you book reservations, manage your accounts or earn Elite night credits, points and miles in the current programs.
If I have Lifetime Status in one of the programs, will I also get it in the other program when I link my accounts?
We appreciate your loyalty! Lifetime Status is specific to the program that you earned it in. While linking accounts will not result in Lifetime Status in the other program, your Elite status will be matched to the same Elite tier in the other program. Any existing Lifetime Status you already hold within either program will still be enjoyed within that program. We’re working on more ways to recognize your loyalty and Lifetime Status as we work towards harmonizing the programs, which we don’t anticipate happening until 2018.
You can now link your Marriott Rewards or Ritz-Carlton Rewards account with your SPG account.
It will be a 3:1 transfer ratio between MR-SPG
FAQ :
http://members.marriott.com/faq/#will-rewards-and-spg-be-turning-into-one-program
Will Rewards and SPG be turning into one program?
These are two of the best programs in the industry, and we want you to benefit from everything that makes SPG and Rewards great. We don’t anticipate that the two programs will come together before 2018, and we will keep you informed of any updates. In the meantime, there’s no change to how you book reservations, manage your accounts or earn Elite night credits, points and miles in the current programs.
If I have Lifetime Status in one of the programs, will I also get it in the other program when I link my accounts?
We appreciate your loyalty! Lifetime Status is specific to the program that you earned it in. While linking accounts will not result in Lifetime Status in the other program, your Elite status will be matched to the same Elite tier in the other program. Any existing Lifetime Status you already hold within either program will still be enjoyed within that program. We’re working on more ways to recognize your loyalty and Lifetime Status as we work towards harmonizing the programs, which we don’t anticipate happening until 2018.
You can now link your Marriott Rewards or Ritz-Carlton Rewards account with your SPG account.
It will be a 3:1 transfer ratio between MR-SPG
Latest on the Starwood and Marriott merger : deal closed on 23 Sep.
Apr 10, 2016, 3:23 pm
#121
Join Date: Dec 2009
Programs: BA Gold; AA Lfe Time PLT ; Marriott Titanium, LFT GLD
Posts: 1,276
Apr 10, 2016, 4:16 pm
#122
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: HEL
Programs: SPG LTP, hotels, OWE, STE+, *G, Octopus
Posts: 5,790
Visconti is spot on!
Apr 10, 2016, 4:19 pm
#123
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: GVA (Greater Vancouver Area)
Programs: DREAD Gold; UA 1.035MM; Bonvoy Au-197; PCC Elite+; CCC Elite+; MSC C-12; CWC Au-197; WoH Dis
Posts: 52,140
While this may be possible, I'd love to see evidence of this. FlyerTalk does not represent the majority of any group of people (except the group of people who are FlyerTalk members), so just because the majority of people posting in this forum are against it, that's not really indicative of a larger trend.
Apr 10, 2016, 6:16 pm
#124
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Belgrade, Serbia
Programs: Etihad Guest
Posts: 1,549
However, it was/is nice to know if I was in a small town there was/is a Marriott property if I did end up there. Or - having a lesser brand even when in a city where there were full service properties if budget dictated that (ie, being in a city w/ both full & limited service & during a trade show when prices are jacked up, have the ability to stay w/in the loyalty family but not break the company's bank).
I belong to Marriott, Hyatt, Hilton, SPG and when I traveled constantly that was pretty much the ranking of the properties. I really like Hyatt, but let's face it there aren't enough of them. After a # of years I went w/ Hilton as my 2nd brand when I edged away from Hyatt due to breath of properties/brands. At the time Hilton was more consistent in its properties & program than SPG. And also Marriott & Hilton had more properties in major cities than SPG (although that's changed).
And depending on location, there are still cities where Marriotts have more properties (again, London which I travel to quite a bit offers a lot more) & some where SPG will have more (Asia, for example).
I belong to Marriott, Hyatt, Hilton, SPG and when I traveled constantly that was pretty much the ranking of the properties. I really like Hyatt, but let's face it there aren't enough of them. After a # of years I went w/ Hilton as my 2nd brand when I edged away from Hyatt due to breath of properties/brands. At the time Hilton was more consistent in its properties & program than SPG. And also Marriott & Hilton had more properties in major cities than SPG (although that's changed).
And depending on location, there are still cities where Marriotts have more properties (again, London which I travel to quite a bit offers a lot more) & some where SPG will have more (Asia, for example).
As I see it:
1) A company with over 80% of its footprint in the USA is acquiring a company which does a much larger proportion of its business outside the USA.
2) The acquiring company has a lower median market niche than the acquired company, reflected in the fact that its top frequent guests contribute a much lower proportion of revenue.
Now, it may be that Marriott is simply buying Starwood as an anti-competitive measure to reduce competition and increase profits in North America, and that it only cares about the US market. If so, your post is more valid than mine.
But it also may be that Marriott wanted to gain access to the extraordinary revenue generated by Starwood's top Platinum guests and to the revenue generated by their network of foreign hotels.
You are effectively judging as more important the fact that Marriott (but not Starwood) has 2 star hotels in small, backward American cities (such as Terre Haute, IN, population 60,000) compared with the fact that Marriott only has half as many hotels as Starwood in Chongqing, China (population 30 million).
And this is why the acquisition of Starwood by Marriott is likely to go badly.
People who need to stay in low quality motels in small, backward cities in the USA already prefer Marriott Rewards.
People who need to stay in high class hotels in major world cities outside the USA already prefer SPG.
And there is hardly any overlap between the two. It is like merging Allegiant Air or Spirit with St Regis hotels. They are both perfectly valid businesses, but what works for one won't work with the other, and if Marriott (or Starwood) think otherwise then they are fools.
Marriott's business model is great for a chain where half the hotels are 1 and 2 star properties in small, backward places. Much better optimised to that market than SPG is. There is no potential yield benefit to giving people a 4 pm late checkout at Fairfield Inn or SpringHill Suites, Terre Haute, IN, when they could buy an extra night for less than $100.
But it's a tone deaf model to try to apply to most of Starwood's network and frequent guests.
Apr 10, 2016, 7:09 pm
#126
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: SoCal; DO-RAGS: Old Gold tagged, PIP, LatPass 1/2, AA 4MM, HH LT Diamond, Marriott Titanium/LT Plat, Omni
Posts: 9,180
I swore I wouldn't read this thread as conjecture only makes me nervous, but if you can't lie to yourself, who can you lie to?
Nothing beats earning Fairfield Inn points on business in places like El Centro and spending them in great *wood resorts. But no way that El Centro's will anywhere approximate *wood business Amex earnings: it was great while it lasted. More than any other bit of plastic the Starwood Amex changed my life and I am heaped with gratitude.
There's a saying that "sometimes a curse is a blessing", and the upside here is that the clock is ticking and so time to think of something epic, really over the top. At the end of the day, this merger Sword of Damocles may be the impetus of a new adventure....
Of course, the second half of the saying is, "sometimes a blessing is a curse".
Nothing beats earning Fairfield Inn points on business in places like El Centro and spending them in great *wood resorts. But no way that El Centro's will anywhere approximate *wood business Amex earnings: it was great while it lasted. More than any other bit of plastic the Starwood Amex changed my life and I am heaped with gratitude.
There's a saying that "sometimes a curse is a blessing", and the upside here is that the clock is ticking and so time to think of something epic, really over the top. At the end of the day, this merger Sword of Damocles may be the impetus of a new adventure....
Of course, the second half of the saying is, "sometimes a blessing is a curse".
Apr 10, 2016, 7:10 pm
#127
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Upcountry Maui, HI
Posts: 13,312
You are effectively judging as more important the fact that Marriott (but not Starwood) has 2 star hotels in small, backward American cities (such as Terre Haute, IN, population 60,000) ...
...
People who need to stay in low quality motels in small, backward cities in the USA already prefer Marriott Rewards.
...
People who need to stay in low quality motels in small, backward cities in the USA already prefer Marriott Rewards.
You could have made the point without the insults. Unfortunately, it mars your post and makes it harder to take it seriously
-David
Apr 10, 2016, 7:27 pm
#128
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: USA
Programs: Many. Some top-tier, others not.
Posts: 281
Was it really necessary to insult people that live in small cities/towns in the USA? What makes them "backward"? Specifically what makes Terre Haute, IN "backward"?
You could have made the point without the insults. Unfortunately, it mars your post and makes it harder to take it seriously
-David
You could have made the point without the insults. Unfortunately, it mars your post and makes it harder to take it seriously
-David
Apr 10, 2016, 7:38 pm
#129
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Suburban Philadelphia
Programs: Marriott Lifetime Plat, IHG Gold
Posts: 3,392
I really enjoy your posts - and learn quite a lot from them - but you have a very US-centric view of this.They are both US-owned companies, but OK then. (Well, and UK too. The UK only has one city of more than a million people - hence the limited Starwood footprint there. Starwood has pretty clearly decided that outside the USA, upscale hotels in capital cities is the way to go, not coverage of medium and small cities.)
As I see it:
1) A company with over 80% of its footprint in the USA is acquiring a company which does a much larger proportion of its business outside the USA. That's what makes it a good match. Why would you want to acquire a company that mirrors the acquiring company's own strengths?
2) The acquiring company has a lower median market niche than the acquired company, reflected in the fact that its top frequent guests contribute a much lower proportion of revenue. Because the path to be a "top guest" in SPG is much shorter, coupled with the fact that SPG's revenue is much lower overall than Marriott's
Now, it may be that Marriott is simply buying Starwood as an anti-competitive measure to reduce competition and increase profits in North America, and that it only cares about the US market. If so, your post is more valid than mine.
But it also may be that Marriott wanted to gain access to the extraordinary revenue generated by Starwood's top Platinum guests and to the revenue generated by their network of foreign hotels.
You are effectively judging as more important the fact that Marriott (but not Starwood) has 2 star hotels in small, backward American cities (such as Terre Haute, IN, population 60,000) compared with the fact that Marriott only has half as many hotels as Starwood in Chongqing, China (population 30 million). That's funny - corporations like Thyssen Krupp have a major presence in Terre Haute. I know, I've been there. I suppose nobody is supposed to visit small two-bit companies such as this in order to conduct business with them?
Personally I'd rather live in Terre Haute than Chongqing, but that's just me
And this is why the acquisition of Starwood by Marriott is likely to go badly.
People who need to stay in low quality motels in small, backward cities in the USA already prefer Marriott Rewards. Backward? Not entirely sure that someone from Serbia has any standing to call any US city "backward".
People who need to stay in high class hotels in major world cities outside the USA already prefer SPG. Speak for yourself
And there is hardly any overlap between the two. It is like merging Allegiant Air or Spirit with St Regis hotels. They are both perfectly valid businesses, but what works for one won't work with the other, and if Marriott (or Starwood) think otherwise then they are fools. An almost silly over-generalization with no basis in reality
Marriott's business model is great for a chain where half the hotels are 1 and 2 star properties in small, backward places.There you go using that word again Much better optimised to that market than SPG is. There is no potential yield benefit to giving people a 4 pm late checkout at Fairfield Inn or SpringHill Suites, Terre Haute, IN, when they could buy an extra night for less than $100. Maybe their meeting at Thyssen Krupp is at 3 PM and they want to stay till then?
But it's a tone deaf model to try to apply to most of Starwood's network and frequent guests.
As I see it:
1) A company with over 80% of its footprint in the USA is acquiring a company which does a much larger proportion of its business outside the USA. That's what makes it a good match. Why would you want to acquire a company that mirrors the acquiring company's own strengths?
2) The acquiring company has a lower median market niche than the acquired company, reflected in the fact that its top frequent guests contribute a much lower proportion of revenue. Because the path to be a "top guest" in SPG is much shorter, coupled with the fact that SPG's revenue is much lower overall than Marriott's
Now, it may be that Marriott is simply buying Starwood as an anti-competitive measure to reduce competition and increase profits in North America, and that it only cares about the US market. If so, your post is more valid than mine.
But it also may be that Marriott wanted to gain access to the extraordinary revenue generated by Starwood's top Platinum guests and to the revenue generated by their network of foreign hotels.
You are effectively judging as more important the fact that Marriott (but not Starwood) has 2 star hotels in small, backward American cities (such as Terre Haute, IN, population 60,000) compared with the fact that Marriott only has half as many hotels as Starwood in Chongqing, China (population 30 million). That's funny - corporations like Thyssen Krupp have a major presence in Terre Haute. I know, I've been there. I suppose nobody is supposed to visit small two-bit companies such as this in order to conduct business with them?
Personally I'd rather live in Terre Haute than Chongqing, but that's just meAnd this is why the acquisition of Starwood by Marriott is likely to go badly.
People who need to stay in low quality motels in small, backward cities in the USA already prefer Marriott Rewards. Backward? Not entirely sure that someone from Serbia has any standing to call any US city "backward".
People who need to stay in high class hotels in major world cities outside the USA already prefer SPG. Speak for yourself
And there is hardly any overlap between the two. It is like merging Allegiant Air or Spirit with St Regis hotels. They are both perfectly valid businesses, but what works for one won't work with the other, and if Marriott (or Starwood) think otherwise then they are fools. An almost silly over-generalization with no basis in reality
Marriott's business model is great for a chain where half the hotels are 1 and 2 star properties in small, backward places.There you go using that word again Much better optimised to that market than SPG is. There is no potential yield benefit to giving people a 4 pm late checkout at Fairfield Inn or SpringHill Suites, Terre Haute, IN, when they could buy an extra night for less than $100. Maybe their meeting at Thyssen Krupp is at 3 PM and they want to stay till then?
But it's a tone deaf model to try to apply to most of Starwood's network and frequent guests.
Was it really necessary to insult people that live in small cities/towns in the USA? What makes them "backward"? Specifically what makes Terre Haute, IN "backward"?
You could have made the point without the insults. Unfortunately, it mars your post and makes it harder to take it seriously
-David
You could have made the point without the insults. Unfortunately, it mars your post and makes it harder to take it seriously
-David
This fellow and a few others unnecessarily create a horribly elitist view of SPG elites.
Apr 10, 2016, 7:40 pm
#130
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: USA
Programs: Many. Some top-tier, others not.
Posts: 281
Apr 10, 2016, 8:27 pm
#131
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: BNA
Programs: Hyatt Explorist, Bonvoy Plat, HHonors Diamond, DL Gold
Posts: 383
While this may be possible, I'd love to see evidence of this. FlyerTalk does not represent the majority of any group of people (except the group of people who are FlyerTalk members), so just because the majority of people posting in this forum are against it, that's not really indicative of a larger trend.
Who knows.. maybe I might be a fan of the new program. I am hoping for the best, but am expecting the worst.
Apr 10, 2016, 8:28 pm
#132
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Belgrade, Serbia
Programs: Etihad Guest
Posts: 1,549
The characteristics of the market and indeed the small towns to which I was referring are that compared with other OECD advanced economies:
1. A much smaller proportion of people have, for example, a passport. (Which is highly relevant to a hotel business).
2. The median vacation time per year of a person in Terre Haute, IN would be something like 30% of a person in Enschede, Netherlands. (Which is highly relevant to a hotel business).
And by the way, I've been to Terre Haute too.
The word I used was clearly inflammatory, and I apologise for that.
But the point that I was trying to make is that SPG guests are as likely to stay at the "additional footprint" 2 star Fairfield Inn and SpringHill Suites locations as St Regis guests are likely to fly on Allegiant or Spirit.
They are different markets and the people who wanted or needed to stay in those low quality properties in smalltown America already used Marriott Rewards.
And you have still completely failed to address the other issue. The Top 3% of Starwood Preferred Guests deliver 30% of the revenue and 100% of the profits. Marriott has never been able to reproduce that - and it's probably why they are buying out Starwood.
But those people are not captives. If the things which attract them to SPG don't carry over to MR, they will just jump ship to Hyatt or Amex FHR.
Last edited by DCF; Apr 10, 2016 at 8:33 pm
Apr 10, 2016, 8:28 pm
#133
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Francisco/Tel Aviv/YYZ
Programs: CO 1K-MM
Posts: 10,762
If I'm going to be in Terra Haute it'd be nice to get the recognition and some benefits for all the stays in the big city.
Apr 10, 2016, 8:30 pm
#134
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: JAX
Programs: UA Plat MM, AA Gold MM, Marriott LTT, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 3,770
I value SPG Plat enough that I made sure I stayed at enough SPg hotels each year to earn my status. Now that I have LTP, I can assess my options if Marriott screws up the merged MR/SPG program.
Apr 10, 2016, 8:34 pm
#135
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: GVA (Greater Vancouver Area)
Programs: DREAD Gold; UA 1.035MM; Bonvoy Au-197; PCC Elite+; CCC Elite+; MSC C-12; CWC Au-197; WoH Dis
Posts: 52,140
Perhaps "backward" was a poor choice of words for the OP, but I can assure you that Terre Haute is no mecca of culture, tourism, or business. I think that assessment does go to the point of the thread - Starwood's footprint doesn't address the third-tier cities like this, whereas Marriott does do it pretty well.